Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 It seemed to me that Ohio used a lot of the worst parts of Pennsylvania law, but I assumed that it also had this in it, altho it may not: © Scope of acupuncturist’s responsibility. (1) An acupuncturist is responsible solely for acupuncture evaluation and acupuncture treatment. The medical diagnosis is the responsibility of the acupuncturist supervisor. Since we no longer have supervisors, this has probably changed slightly, but you get the generals. DAvid In a message dated 8/9/05 9:03:54 PM, threetreasures writes: > > > > > >Does it say you can make an acupuncture diagnosis? > >David Molony > > > David, > I take the following to mean that it's illegal to make any kind of > diagnosis, including acupuncture: > > >. . .the section includes language > >> >> describing a person who “examines or diagnoses†and who “prescribes, > >> >> advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses… a drug or medicine, > >> >> …or treatment, of whatever nature.â€A person needs a medical license> > > > or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice in> >> > this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for> >> > discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and> >> > 4731.99). > > > >There has to be enough OM folks there to have a few who work politically > and > >who treat the right people in the state capitol. Then, with others inthe > >state, the slow climb to self determination. > >David Molony > > > I'll look into it, with the help of some friends. If I am entrusted to > treat people to the best of my knowledge and abilities, that certainly > includes Chinese herbal medicine and qigong. Thank you. > > Frances Gander, R.Ac. > Three Treasures Health Center > 11315 Jackson Dr. > The Plains, OH 45780 > > >Ohio is the only state in which acupuncture is considered a limited branch > of medicine. The Medical Board licenses acupuncturists and > >> >>> regulates acupuncture schools and practitioners through its standing > >> >>> committee on the Limited Branches and Alternative Medicine with the > assistance of the Acupuncture Advisory Committee. > > > > > >> >> Q: Does an Ohio acupuncture license allow me to practice Chinese > >> >> herbal medicine or as a Doctor of Oriental Medicine? * > >> >> > >> >> **A:*** H.B. 341 of the 123rd General Assembly created licensure for > >> >> the practice of acupuncture. Acupuncture is defined in Section > >> >> 4762.01(A) of the Ohio Revised Code (ORC) as “a form of health care > >> >> performed by the insertion and removal of specialized needles, with or > >> >> without the application of moxibustion or electrical stimulation, to > >> >> specific areas of the body.†Moxibustion is defined in paragraph (B) > >> >> of that same section as “the use of an herbal heat source on one or > >> >> more acupuncture points.†The scope of practice of an Ohio licensed > >> >> acupuncturist is thus limited. In addition, ORC Section 4762.08 > >> >> specifically limits the ways in which a licensed acupuncturist may > >> >> hold himself or herself out to the public. That section states in part > >> >> that “(t)he person shall not use other titles, initials, or > >> >> abbreviations in conjunction with the person’s practice of > >> >> acupuncture, including the title ‘doctor’.†> >> >> > >> >> ORC Section 4731.34 defines the unlicensed practice of medicine. This > >> >> definition includes language again related to how someone holds > >> >> themself out to the public. In addition, the section includes language > >> >> describing a person who “examines or diagnoses†and who “prescribes, > >> >> advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses… a drug or medicine, > >> >> …or treatment, of whatever nature.†A person needs a medical license > >> >> or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice in > >> >> this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for > >> >> discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and > >> >> 4731.99). > >> >> > >> >> Clearly, Ohio has excluded the use of Chinese herbal medicine from the > >> >> acupuncture scope of practice with the exception of the limited use of > >> >> moxibustion in conjunction with acupuncture. Furthermore, Chinese > >> >> herbal medicine is considered the practice of medicine in Ohio and is > >> >> therefore within the scope of practice of licensed physicians.* > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free > discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 > > >Does it say you can make an acupuncture diagnosis? >David Molony > David, I take the following to mean that it's illegal to make any kind of diagnosis, including acupuncture: >. . .the section includes language >> >> describing a person who “examines or diagnoses” and who “prescribes, >> >> advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses… a drug or medicine, >> >> …or treatment, of whatever nature.”A person needs a medical license> >> or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice in> >> this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for> >> discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and> >> 4731.99). > >There has to be enough OM folks there to have a few who work politically and >who treat the right people in the state capitol. Then, with others inthe >state, the slow climb to self determination. >David Molony > I'll look into it, with the help of some friends. If I am entrusted to treat people to the best of my knowledge and abilities, that certainly includes Chinese herbal medicine and qigong. Thank you. Frances Gander, R.Ac. Three Treasures Health Center 11315 Jackson Dr. The Plains, OH 45780 >Ohio is the only state in which acupuncture is considered a limited branch of medicine. The Medical Board licenses acupuncturists and >> >>> regulates acupuncture schools and practitioners through its standing >> >>> committee on the Limited Branches and Alternative Medicine with the assistance of the Acupuncture Advisory Committee. > > >> >> Q: Does an Ohio acupuncture license allow me to practice Chinese >> >> herbal medicine or as a Doctor of Oriental Medicine? * >> >> >> >> **A:*** H.B. 341 of the 123rd General Assembly created licensure for >> >> the practice of acupuncture. Acupuncture is defined in Section >> >> 4762.01(A) of the Ohio Revised Code (ORC) as “a form of health care >> >> performed by the insertion and removal of specialized needles, with or >> >> without the application of moxibustion or electrical stimulation, to >> >> specific areas of the body.” Moxibustion is defined in paragraph (B) >> >> of that same section as “the use of an herbal heat source on one or >> >> more acupuncture points.” The scope of practice of an Ohio licensed >> >> acupuncturist is thus limited. In addition, ORC Section 4762.08 >> >> specifically limits the ways in which a licensed acupuncturist may >> >> hold himself or herself out to the public. That section states in part >> >> that “(t)he person shall not use other titles, initials, or >> >> abbreviations in conjunction with the person’s practice of >> >> acupuncture, including the title ‘doctor’.” >> >> >> >> ORC Section 4731.34 defines the unlicensed practice of medicine. This >> >> definition includes language again related to how someone holds >> >> themself out to the public. In addition, the section includes language >> >> describing a person who “examines or diagnoses” and who “prescribes, >> >> advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses… a drug or medicine, >> >> …or treatment, of whatever nature.” A person needs a medical license >> >> or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice in >> >> this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for >> >> discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and >> >> 4731.99). >> >> >> >> Clearly, Ohio has excluded the use of Chinese herbal medicine from the >> >> acupuncture scope of practice with the exception of the limited use of >> >> moxibustion in conjunction with acupuncture. Furthermore, Chinese >> >> herbal medicine is considered the practice of medicine in Ohio and is >> >> therefore within the scope of practice of licensed physicians.* > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Something is wrong here as you have to make a diagnosis in order to know what to treat and since you are not required to have an MD referal than what? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac >frances gander <threetreasures > > > Ohio regs >Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:04:45 -0400 > > > > > > >Does it say you can make an acupuncture diagnosis? > >David Molony > > >David, >I take the following to mean that it's illegal to make any kind of >diagnosis, including acupuncture: > > >. . .the section includes language > >> >> describing a person who “examines or diagnoses” and who “prescribes, > >> >> advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses… a drug or medicine, > >> >> …or treatment, of whatever nature.”A person needs a medical license> > >> or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice in> > >> this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for> > >> discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and> > >> 4731.99). > > > >There has to be enough OM folks there to have a few who work politically >and > >who treat the right people in the state capitol. Then, with others inthe > >state, the slow climb to self determination. > >David Molony > > >I'll look into it, with the help of some friends. If I am entrusted to >treat people to the best of my knowledge and abilities, that certainly >includes Chinese herbal medicine and qigong. Thank you. > >Frances Gander, R.Ac. >Three Treasures Health Center >11315 Jackson Dr. >The Plains, OH 45780 > > >Ohio is the only state in which acupuncture is considered a limited >branch of medicine. The Medical Board licenses acupuncturists and > >> >>> regulates acupuncture schools and practitioners through its >standing > >> >>> committee on the Limited Branches and Alternative Medicine with the >assistance of the Acupuncture Advisory Committee. > > > > > >> >> Q: Does an Ohio acupuncture license allow me to practice Chinese > >> >> herbal medicine or as a Doctor of Oriental Medicine? * > >> >> > >> >> **A:*** H.B. 341 of the 123rd General Assembly created licensure for > >> >> the practice of acupuncture. Acupuncture is defined in Section > >> >> 4762.01(A) of the Ohio Revised Code (ORC) as “a form of health care > >> >> performed by the insertion and removal of specialized needles, with >or > >> >> without the application of moxibustion or electrical stimulation, to > >> >> specific areas of the body.” Moxibustion is defined in paragraph (B) > >> >> of that same section as “the use of an herbal heat source on one or > >> >> more acupuncture points.” The scope of practice of an Ohio licensed > >> >> acupuncturist is thus limited. In addition, ORC Section 4762.08 > >> >> specifically limits the ways in which a licensed acupuncturist may > >> >> hold himself or herself out to the public. That section states in >part > >> >> that “(t)he person shall not use other titles, initials, or > >> >> abbreviations in conjunction with the person’s practice of > >> >> acupuncture, including the title ‘doctor’.” > >> >> > >> >> ORC Section 4731.34 defines the unlicensed practice of medicine. >This > >> >> definition includes language again related to how someone holds > >> >> themself out to the public. In addition, the section includes >language > >> >> describing a person who “examines or diagnoses” and who “prescribes, > >> >> advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses… a drug or medicine, > >> >> …or treatment, of whatever nature.” A person needs a medical license > >> >> or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice >in > >> >> this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for > >> >> discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and > >> >> 4731.99). > >> >> > >> >> Clearly, Ohio has excluded the use of Chinese herbal medicine from >the > >> >> acupuncture scope of practice with the exception of the limited use >of > >> >> moxibustion in conjunction with acupuncture. Furthermore, Chinese > >> >> herbal medicine is considered the practice of medicine in Ohio and >is > >> >> therefore within the scope of practice of licensed physicians.* > > > > > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including >board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a >free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 > > > On Behalf Of mike Bowser > Tuesday, August 09, 2005 8:00 PM > > RE: Ohio regs > > Something is wrong here as you have to make a diagnosis in order to know > what to treat and since you are not required to have an MD referal than > what? I thought you were... -Jason > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > >frances gander <threetreasures > > > > > > Ohio regs > >Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:04:45 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > >Does it say you can make an acupuncture diagnosis? > > >David Molony > > > > >David, > >I take the following to mean that it's illegal to make any kind of > >diagnosis, including acupuncture: > > > > >. . .the section includes language > > >> >> describing a person who " examines or diagnoses " and who > " prescribes, > > >> >> advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses. a drug or medicine, > > >> >> .or treatment, of whatever nature. " A person needs a medical > license> > > >> or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice > in> > > >> this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for> > > >> discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and> > > >> 4731.99). > > > > > >There has to be enough OM folks there to have a few who work > politically > >and > > >who treat the right people in the state capitol. Then, with others > inthe > > >state, the slow climb to self determination. > > >David Molony > > > > >I'll look into it, with the help of some friends. If I am entrusted to > >treat people to the best of my knowledge and abilities, that certainly > >includes Chinese herbal medicine and qigong. Thank you. > > > >Frances Gander, R.Ac. > >Three Treasures Health Center > >11315 Jackson Dr. > >The Plains, OH 45780 > > > > >Ohio is the only state in which acupuncture is considered a limited > >branch of medicine. The Medical Board licenses acupuncturists and > > >> >>> regulates acupuncture schools and practitioners through its > >standing > > >> >>> committee on the Limited Branches and Alternative Medicine with > the > >assistance of the Acupuncture Advisory Committee. > > > > > > > > >> >> Q: Does an Ohio acupuncture license allow me to practice Chinese > > >> >> herbal medicine or as a Doctor of Oriental Medicine? * > > >> >> > > >> >> **A:*** H.B. 341 of the 123rd General Assembly created licensure > for > > >> >> the practice of acupuncture. Acupuncture is defined in Section > > >> >> 4762.01(A) of the Ohio Revised Code (ORC) as " a form of health > care > > >> >> performed by the insertion and removal of specialized needles, > with > >or > > >> >> without the application of moxibustion or electrical stimulation, > to > > >> >> specific areas of the body. " Moxibustion is defined in paragraph > (B) > > >> >> of that same section as " the use of an herbal heat source on one > or > > >> >> more acupuncture points. " The scope of practice of an Ohio > licensed > > >> >> acupuncturist is thus limited. In addition, ORC Section 4762.08 > > >> >> specifically limits the ways in which a licensed acupuncturist may > > >> >> hold himself or herself out to the public. That section states in > >part > > >> >> that " (t)he person shall not use other titles, initials, or > > >> >> abbreviations in conjunction with the person's practice of > > >> >> acupuncture, including the title 'doctor'. " > > >> >> > > >> >> ORC Section 4731.34 defines the unlicensed practice of medicine. > >This > > >> >> definition includes language again related to how someone holds > > >> >> themself out to the public. In addition, the section includes > >language > > >> >> describing a person who " examines or diagnoses " and who > " prescribes, > > >> >> advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses. a drug or medicine, > > >> >> .or treatment, of whatever nature. " A person needs a medical > license > > >> >> or some other license with specific statutory authority to > practice > >in > > >> >> this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds > for > > >> >> discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 > and > > >> >> 4731.99). > > >> >> > > >> >> Clearly, Ohio has excluded the use of Chinese herbal medicine from > >the > > >> >> acupuncture scope of practice with the exception of the limited > use > >of > > >> >> moxibustion in conjunction with acupuncture. Furthermore, Chinese > > >> >> herbal medicine is considered the practice of medicine in Ohio and > >is > > >> >> therefore within the scope of practice of licensed physicians.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > >board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a > >free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Jason and Mike: Yes, a physician referral is required before an acupuncturist can begin to do whatever it is that we are allowed to do. It can be as simple as a statement written on a scrip form: " I give jane doe permission to treat X diagnosis with acupuncture " and signed by the physician. There is no supervision that I can see, other than being under the medical board. That is an implicit supervision. If you piss someone off they can tell on you. Dave,--however, the Ohio law does not as clearly define (as PA) what it is that an acupuncturist can do in regards to evaluating for treatment. It just says we can do acupuncture and limited use of moxa. So there is room for more clarification. Out of town for the rest of the week. Frances >>Mike wrote: >>Something is wrong here as you have to make a diagnosis in order to know >>what to treat and since you are not required to have an MD referal than >>what? >> >> > >I thought you were... > >-Jason > > >>PA regs: >> >>© Scope of acupuncturist’s responsibility. >> >> (1) An acupuncturist is responsible solely for acupuncture evaluation >>and acupuncture treatment. The medical diagnosis is the responsibility of the >>acupuncturist supervisor. >> >>Since we no longer have supervisors, this has probably changed slightly, but >>you get the generals. >>DAvid >> >> >> >>Does it say you can make an acupuncture diagnosis? >>David Molony >>David, >>I take the following to mean that it's illegal to make any kind of >>diagnosis, including acupuncture: >>. . .the section includes language >> >> >>>>>>describing a person who “examines or diagnoses†and who “prescribes, >>>>>>advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses… a drug or medicine, >>>>>>…or treatment, of whatever nature.â€A person needs a medical license> >or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice in> >> this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for> >> >>>>>>discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and> >> >>>>>>4731.99). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>There has to be enough OM folks there to have a few who work politically andwho treat the right people in the state capitol. Then, with others inthe >>>state, the slow climb to self determination. >>>David Molony >>> >>> >>>I'll look into it, with the help of some friends. If I am entrusted to >>>treat people to the best of my knowledge and abilities, that certainly >>>includes Chinese herbal medicine and qigong. Thank you. >>> >>>Frances Gander, R.Ac. >>>Three Treasures Health Center >>>11315 Jackson Dr. >>>The Plains, OH 45780 >>> >>> >>> >>>Ohio is the only state in which acupuncture is considered a limited branch of medicine. The Medical Board licenses acupuncturists andregulates acupuncture schools and practitioners through its standing >>>committee on the Limited Branches and Alternative Medicine with the assistance of the Acupuncture Advisory Committee >>> >>>Q: Does an Ohio acupuncture license allow me to practice Chinese >>>herbal medicine or as a Doctor of Oriental Medicine? * >>> >>>**A:*** H.B. 341 of the 123rd General Assembly created licensure for >>>the practice of acupuncture. Acupuncture is defined in Section >>>4762.01(A) of the Ohio Revised Code (ORC) as “a form of health care >>>performed by the insertion and removal of specialized needles, with or >>>without the application of moxibustion or electrical stimulation, to >>>specific areas of the body.†Moxibustion is defined in paragraph (B) >>>of that same section as “the use of an herbal heat source on one or >>>more acupuncture points.†The scope of practice of an Ohio licensed >>>acupuncturist is thus limited. In addition, ORC Section 4762.08 >>>specifically limits the ways in which a licensed acupuncturist may >>>hold himself or herself out to the public. That section states in part >>>that “(t)he person shall not use other titles, initials, or >>>abbreviations in conjunction with the person’s practice of >>>acupuncture, including the title ‘doctor’.†>>> >>>ORC Section 4731.34 defines the unlicensed practice of medicine. This >>>definition includes language again related to how someone holds >>>themself out to the public. In addition, the section includes language >>>describing a person who “examines or diagnoses†and who “prescribes, >>>advises, recommends, administers, or dispenses… a drug or medicine, >>>…or treatment, of whatever nature.†A person needs a medical license >>>or some other license with specific statutory authority to practice in >>>this manner. Unlicensed practice is a felony in Ohio and grounds for >>>discipline for a Board licensee (please see ORC Sections 4731.41 and >>>4731.99). >>> >>>Clearly, Ohio has excluded the use of Chinese herbal medicine from the >>>acupuncture scope of practice with the exception of the limited use of >>>moxibustion in conjunction with acupuncture. Furthermore, Chinese >>>herbal medicine is considered the practice of medicine in Ohio and is >>>therefore within the scope of practice of licensed physicians.* >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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