Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 This is mainly for Alon... I have your book but am not sure where to start looking for the information or treatment. I have a patient, 28, very healthy, surfer athelete, with back and leg pain for 2 months, mainly along the GB channel coming from L5 and S1. She has an excruciating aching on the fronts of the upper thighs. Predictably there are no Western abnormalities. She is, of course ironically, a physical therapist and nothing seems to help. She only takes OTC medications and has been resisting heavier meds. A year ago she had a fibroid removed and has a large and raised scar across the pubic bone. I have been able to knock the pain away for an hour or so after each treatment using rather extensive needling including some Tong but in general the pain is increasing for her. In all respects she seems healthy and even the tongue and pulse are moderate... not wiry nor purple. She has been on some blood movers, again to no effect. The pain seems to be constant and especially aggravated with sitting. Her own feeling is that there is some kind of chemical irritation of the nerve(s) perhaps coming from the disk. Last treatment we needled around the scar, gently, but this had little effect done only once. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at dealing with these issues but this has got me baffled. Alon, anyone? doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Funny Doug, I was just driving home back from the office thinking that I was going to write to you to ask you about a similar case: 50 YO female with excrutiating pain in low back from hernited disc L5S1, radiating down UB channel to UB 57 more or less. She was so nervous bcs it was her first treatment that her arms were shaking on the tableShe has had 6 children and works cleaning homes which worsens pain. Seems to be very kd xu. After treatment (UB 62, SI 3, UB 40, 57, 17, 20, 23, 52, DU 20, KD3, Shen Men - I had to go to the other room to get more needles!) she was very relaxed but the pain remained the same. Would you do cupping directly in the lower back? Or could this worsen the disc problem? Ferran > " " > > > back and leg pain >Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:17:39 -0000 > >This is mainly for Alon... I have your book but am not sure where to start >looking for the >information or treatment. >I have a patient, 28, very healthy, surfer athelete, with back and leg pain >for 2 months, mainly >along the GB channel coming from L5 and S1. She has an excruciating aching >on the fronts of >the upper thighs. Predictably there are no Western abnormalities. She is, >of course ironically, >a physical therapist and nothing seems to help. She only takes OTC >medications and has >been resisting heavier meds. > >A year ago she had a fibroid removed and has a large and raised scar across >the pubic bone. >I have been able to knock the pain away for an hour or so after each >treatment using rather >extensive needling including some Tong but in general the pain is >increasing for her. In all >respects she seems healthy and even the tongue and pulse are moderate... >not wiry nor >purple. She has been on some blood movers, again to no effect. The pain >seems to be >constant and especially aggravated with sitting. > >Her own feeling is that there is some kind of chemical irritation of the >nerve(s) perhaps >coming from the disk. Last treatment we needled around the scar, gently, >but this had little >effect done only once. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at dealing with >these issues but this >has got me baffled. >Alon, anyone? >doug > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Predictably there are no Western abnormalities. >>>>>>> Doug, what do you mean by that. If its musculoskeletal there MUST be physical findings.Pain in the upper thigh is most commonly due to the iliolumbar ligament and upper pole SI joint (if not discogenic). These will often lead to trigger points in the QL and perispinals but treatment to them will not get read of the pain (80% of the time). You need to take care of the mechanics. The new book is not set up to be a cook book. Its about learning principles.You may want to first read the manual therapy chapter to get some idea of what the mechanical disorders of the back are. You will also get clues for treatment in the treatment chapters and last chapter, look up joint disorders, ligamentous disorders, and myofascial disorders.You may also want to review discogenic disorders because some of them do not present with the usual " Western surgical Orthopedic " findings. By the way has she had an injury? did the pain start after the surgery? Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Alon, thanks for the info. It's obviously in the SI joint but there is nothing they can find to fix. Yes, she had her abdomen surgery 9 months before the pain started. doug , " " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > Predictably there are no Western abnormalities. > >>>>>>> > Doug, what do you mean by that. If its musculoskeletal there MUST be physical findings.Pain in the upper thigh is most commonly due to the iliolumbar ligament and upper pole SI joint (if not discogenic). These will often lead to trigger points in the QL and perispinals but treatment to them will not get read of the pain (80% of the time). You need to take care of the mechanics. > The new book is not set up to be a cook book. Its about learning principles.You may want to first read the manual therapy chapter to get some idea of what the mechanical disorders of the back are. You will also get clues for treatment in the treatment chapters and last chapter, look up joint disorders, ligamentous disorders, and myofascial disorders.You may also want to review discogenic disorders because some of them do not present with the usual " Western surgical Orthopedic " findings. > By the way has she had an injury? did the pain start after the surgery? > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Hi, I am an a registered Osteopath in Finland. The symptoms described would certainly suggest a L3 segmental dysfunction. And in a healthy 28 year old is probably due to a facet lock at that level denervating the Femoral distribution. I would suggest a manual release by a qualified manual therapist. I hope this is of help. Regards, Richard Field --- wrote: > This is mainly for Alon... I have your book but am > not sure where to start looking for the > information or treatment. > I have a patient, 28, very healthy, surfer athelete, > with back and leg pain for 2 months, mainly > along the GB channel coming from L5 and S1. She has > an excruciating aching on the fronts of > the upper thighs. Predictably there are no Western > abnormalities. She is, of course ironically, > a physical therapist and nothing seems to help. She > only takes OTC medications and has > been resisting heavier meds. > > A year ago she had a fibroid removed and has a large > and raised scar across the pubic bone. > I have been able to knock the pain away for an hour > or so after each treatment using rather > extensive needling including some Tong but in > general the pain is increasing for her. In all > respects she seems healthy and even the tongue and > pulse are moderate... not wiry nor > purple. She has been on some blood movers, again to > no effect. The pain seems to be > constant and especially aggravated with sitting. > > Her own feeling is that there is some kind of > chemical irritation of the nerve(s) perhaps > coming from the disk. Last treatment we needled > around the scar, gently, but this had little > effect done only once. I'd like to think I'm pretty > good at dealing with these issues but this > has got me baffled. > Alon, anyone? > doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 It's obviously in the SI joint but there is nothing they can find to fix. >>>She needs a good osteopath or you can learn to do it. Not too difficult.You may want to needle into SI and iliolumber ligaments. If you find a spot that reproduces the pain, then work on it. Use the methods in the text including the herbs Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I am an a registered Osteopath in Finland. The symptoms described would certainly suggest a L3 segmental dysfunction. >>>>Richard Since the iliolumbar ligament can easily get strained by both spinal and lower extremity (innominate)dysfunctions, the pain pattern is seen often with other then L3 somatic dysfunction. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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