Guest guest Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Hi Everyone, I have a complex new case which is challenging my beginner's mind in a big way. I have only seen him twice thus far but I will relate as much info as I can. Sorry this is kind of long... General background: 25 y.o. male who started having health problems 10 years ago as a teen. His problems started with IBS-like symptoms of abdominal pain and alternating constipation and diarrhea. These problems continued for many years with no relief and have proegressively gotten worse. At 19, he was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome. Last April (2004) he was diagnosed with Lyme disaese (via Western blot) though he has no idea when he actually contracted it - said it could have been at any point in his life. At some point he got a Fibromyalgia diag too. Specifics: IBS - alternating constipation (up to 3 days with no BM) and pebble stools and diarrhea a few times per week. Lower abdominal pain and cramping which is better after moving his bowels. Also with occasional HTburn, gassy, bloating, belching and indigestion. Abd pain better with heat. He has tried many diets all to no avail - he currently eats a whole grain diet with veggies and meat. No sugar, no coffee. He has a dry mouth, thirst for warm drinks. Occasional bitter taste in the mouth. His appetite fluctuates from zero to being very hungry. CFS - extreme fatigue every day. Sleep is very irregular - anywhere from 1-15 hours perday, typically 8-15 hrs. over the course of the day. Has vivid dreams, nightmares, easily awakened. His energy is low (1-4/10) - sl. better in late afternoon for a few hours. This issue has severely impacted his life (along with other issues). Lyme - severe neck pain from GB 20 down traps. Entire back is painful and sore. Extremely sensitive to palpation all over his body. Muscle cramping, knee and elbow pain. He's very agitated, anxious, edgy, has a busy mind. Has chronic low grade sore throat and several raging sore throats/year. He has hypersensitivity of sight, hearing, touch, smell. Constant PND and phlegm in the throat. He took one year of oral antibx - which helped initially but now symptoms are getting worse. Other S/S - postural lightheaded/dizzy few times/week, cold extremities, no unusual sweating, SOB on exertion, occ. palps, urinary difficulty (starting and completing urination) urinary frequency (10-15x/day) with some pain, urgency and dribbling after urination, in general feels worse w/the change of seasons, stress, hot weather, better w/heat (sauna or bath), massage, rest, stretching. Sexual energy is fine. Constant dry eyes, some blurry vision/floaters. Occ. hi-pitch tinnitus. Some hair loss. Pitting acne. Hx of earaches. Poor memory in the past few years. Tongue - pale, scalloped, red dots in tip, thick yellow coat over the back half of the tongue. Sublinguals are OK. Pulse - tight, slow (today it was 45 bpm) My thoughts are - some kind of latent cold/heat combo, Qi xu (Spleen, Kidney), Blood xu, bi syndrome, some kind of shaoyang syndrome (lots of alternating symps) and blood and qi stag and ???? I have given him one week of herbs (raw) which had minimal effects on his main problems but some minor improvements. I gave him a combo of Juan Bi Tang and Xiao Chai Hu Tang plus additions. After seeing him again today my thoughts are that he is more deficient than I first thought. But his neck pain is far from deficient. I realize (and have talked with him about) that the course of treatment may be on the longer side of things. His priorities for tx are #1) neck,back pain #2) digestive complaints #3) energy/fatigue. That's all I can think of at the moment (I think it's quite enough!). Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance. Adam Schreiber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Hi Adam, This is a complicated case, indeed. I have fibromyalgia myself, and am treating a few individuals with complicated, Western diagnoses that are different from your patient, but the presentations and TCM diagnoses are quite similar. I'm in my 3rd year of practice, and all of a sudden I am seeing lots of knotty diseases, and I also feel like a beginner - but my own journey through fibromyalgia and a lifetime of weird diseases has taught me alot, and I do quite a bit of research on my patients' behalf. So I hope what I say here is of some use to you. Everyone I know with fibromyalgia has symptoms that are worse with cold, and also with hot, humid weather. Seasonal changes and stress also worsen fibromyalgia symptoms, so what you wrote may be not be due to the Lyme disease. There are some doctors who believe that fibromyalgia and CFS are actually the same disease, which manifest differently in folks with different constitutions, some showing more fatigue and frequent sore throats, and others presenting more with body pain. It is not uncommon to see patients with both presentations. And IBS is a common diagnosis with fibromyalgia, as are anxiety and depression. Many people with fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue have always been highly sensitive all their lives. They fit the category of Highly Sensitive Persons, and a book has been written about people who are extremely sensitive in this way. It is called The Highly Sensitive Person, by Elaine Aron. This might underlie your patient's hypersensitivity to sights, sounds, smells, etc. An interestng read. I am one of these people, and I participated in research studies the author did prior to the release of her book. I have a patient with fibromyalgia and the most wrecked digestive system I've ever seen or heard of (she cannot eat real food). Her liver is also horribly stuck and she has a history of extreme childhood abuse. Her chief complaint is chronic headaches, then depression, then her digestive system last. I think in order to relieve her headaches in any lasting way, I'd need to untangle the wood-earth disharmony, which seems to me would take a very long time. This is not her priority, so it is hard to encourage her to buy into this treatment. So I am also addressing her headaches simultaneously. I have another patient who has fibro, who only wants to address weight loss - a worthy goal for her. She claims she suffers from extreme hunger, but careful questioning reveals that she isn't physically hungry; she eats for emotional satisfaction. She doesn't want to acknowledge that she is extremely angry, and this is what drives her to eat too much. And so addressing her anger is not her priority. My point is that I am learning that sometimes what our clients want to address isn't necessarily what will heal them, and sometimes what they want is different from what they need. In your patient's case, I'd like to know about his psycho-emotional state. I see lots of folks who have chronic neck and shoulder pain with IBS, and the problem is often liver qi stagnation leading to liver yang rising. Is he unusually stressed? Is he a type A personality, driving himself despite his fatigue? Liver qi stagnation often causes the alternating constipation and diarrhea of IBS. Does he have headaches arising from the neck and shoulder pain? What is the nature of his pain? I see unraveling his IBS symptoms as of primary importance. He may also have concurrent leaky gut syndrome or candida, which he should be tested for. If you can normalize his bowels, this will help the rapid loss of qi and improve the fatigue. It will also be necessary to strengthen his spleen, and maybe also the kidney, since I do see signs of kidney qi xu as well - frequent urination and cold extremities. The mixed symptoms of cold and heat in the stomach and spleen remind me of a Ban Xia Xie Xin Tang presentation. Perhaps you cold explore whether this would be appropriate as a base formula, with some liver soothing herbs. Nice case presentation. Good luck and let us know how it goes and what you learn. Adam Schreiber <chinesemed wrote: Hi Everyone, I have a complex new case which is challenging my beginner's mind in a big way. I have only seen him twice thus far but I will relate as much info as I can. Sorry this is kind of long... General background: 25 y.o. male who started having health problems 10 years ago as a teen. His problems started with IBS-like symptoms of abdominal pain and alternating constipation and diarrhea. These problems continued for many years with no relief and have proegressively gotten worse. At 19, he was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome. Last April (2004) he was diagnosed with Lyme disaese (via Western blot) though he has no idea when he actually contracted it - said it could have been at any point in his life. At some point he got a Fibromyalgia diag too. Specifics: IBS - alternating constipation (up to 3 days with no BM) and pebble stools and diarrhea a few times per week. Lower abdominal pain and cramping which is better after moving his bowels. Also with occasional HTburn, gassy, bloating, belching and indigestion. Abd pain better with heat. He has tried many diets all to no avail - he currently eats a whole grain diet with veggies and meat. No sugar, no coffee. He has a dry mouth, thirst for warm drinks. Occasional bitter taste in the mouth. His appetite fluctuates from zero to being very hungry. CFS - extreme fatigue every day. Sleep is very irregular - anywhere from 1-15 hours perday, typically 8-15 hrs. over the course of the day. Has vivid dreams, nightmares, easily awakened. His energy is low (1-4/10) - sl. better in late afternoon for a few hours. This issue has severely impacted his life (along with other issues). Lyme - severe neck pain from GB 20 down traps. Entire back is painful and sore. Extremely sensitive to palpation all over his body. Muscle cramping, knee and elbow pain. He's very agitated, anxious, edgy, has a busy mind. Has chronic low grade sore throat and several raging sore throats/year. He has hypersensitivity of sight, hearing, touch, smell. Constant PND and phlegm in the throat. He took one year of oral antibx - which helped initially but now symptoms are getting worse. Other S/S - postural lightheaded/dizzy few times/week, cold extremities, no unusual sweating, SOB on exertion, occ. palps, urinary difficulty (starting and completing urination) urinary frequency (10-15x/day) with some pain, urgency and dribbling after urination, in general feels worse w/the change of seasons, stress, hot weather, better w/heat (sauna or bath), massage, rest, stretching. Sexual energy is fine. Constant dry eyes, some blurry vision/floaters. Occ. hi-pitch tinnitus. Some hair loss. Pitting acne. Hx of earaches. Poor memory in the past few years. Tongue - pale, scalloped, red dots in tip, thick yellow coat over the back half of the tongue. Sublinguals are OK. Pulse - tight, slow (today it was 45 bpm) My thoughts are - some kind of latent cold/heat combo, Qi xu (Spleen, Kidney), Blood xu, bi syndrome, some kind of shaoyang syndrome (lots of alternating symps) and blood and qi stag and ???? I have given him one week of herbs (raw) which had minimal effects on his main problems but some minor improvements. I gave him a combo of Juan Bi Tang and Xiao Chai Hu Tang plus additions. After seeing him again today my thoughts are that he is more deficient than I first thought. But his neck pain is far from deficient. I realize (and have talked with him about) that the course of treatment may be on the longer side of things. His priorities for tx are #1) neck,back pain #2) digestive complaints #3) energy/fatigue. That's all I can think of at the moment (I think it's quite enough!). Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance. Adam Schreiber Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Hi Andrea- Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Yes, all of the sypmtoms of his western diagnoses overlap - in his mind the Lyme is the main factor. He barely even mentioned that he had been diagnosed with FM (though he clearly has a FM presentation) - it was more like, somewhere along the way in his visits to countless docs, he got a diag. of FM. Which came first? and does it even matter at this point? And what is the priority from my perspective in terms of treatment? He does not seem to be a type A person who pushes himself - actually he stopped work, dropped out of the Marines and doesn't have much of a life right now (esp. for a 25 year old). That being said, I don't have a great grasp yet on what he is like emotionally. His neck pain is so severe (sharp) you can see it - he is very stiff and cautious when moving his head. He doesn't seem overly stressed - aggravated about being unhealthy, yes. There is definitely some wood-earth disharmony. In terms of his hyper-sensitivity - it is a relatively new thing for him, it was not present before he became ill. Thanks again and I'll post again with any developments. Adam , <> wrote: > Hi Adam, > > This is a complicated case, indeed. I have fibromyalgia myself, and am treating a few individuals with complicated, Western diagnoses that are different from your patient, but the presentations and TCM diagnoses are quite similar. I'm in my 3rd year of practice, and all of a sudden I am seeing lots of knotty diseases, and I also feel like a beginner - but my own journey through fibromyalgia and a lifetime of weird diseases has taught me alot, and I do quite a bit of research on my patients' behalf. So I hope what I say here is of some use to you. > > Everyone I know with fibromyalgia has symptoms that are worse with cold, and also with hot, humid weather. Seasonal changes and stress also worsen fibromyalgia symptoms, so what you wrote may be not be due to the Lyme disease. There are some doctors who believe that fibromyalgia and CFS are actually the same disease, which manifest differently in folks with different constitutions, some showing more fatigue and frequent sore throats, and others presenting more with body pain. It is not uncommon to see patients with both presentations. And IBS is a common diagnosis with fibromyalgia, as are anxiety and depression. > > Many people with fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue have always been highly sensitive all their lives. They fit the category of Highly Sensitive Persons, and a book has been written about people who are extremely sensitive in this way. It is called The Highly Sensitive Person, by Elaine Aron. This might underlie your patient's hypersensitivity to sights, sounds, smells, etc. An interestng read. I am one of these people, and I participated in research studies the author did prior to the release of her book. > > I have a patient with fibromyalgia and the most wrecked digestive system I've ever seen or heard of (she cannot eat real food). Her liver is also horribly stuck and she has a history of extreme childhood abuse. Her chief complaint is chronic headaches, then depression, then her digestive system last. I think in order to relieve her headaches in any lasting way, I'd need to untangle the wood-earth disharmony, which seems to me would take a very long time. This is not her priority, so it is hard to encourage her to buy into this treatment. So I am also addressing her headaches simultaneously. I have another patient who has fibro, who only wants to address weight loss - a worthy goal for her. She claims she suffers from extreme hunger, but careful questioning reveals that she isn't physically hungry; she eats for emotional satisfaction. She doesn't want to acknowledge that she is extremely angry, and this is what drives her to eat too much. And so addressing her anger is not > her priority. > > My point is that I am learning that sometimes what our clients want to address isn't necessarily what will heal them, and sometimes what they want is different from what they need. > > In your patient's case, I'd like to know about his psycho-emotional state. I see lots of folks who have chronic neck and shoulder pain with IBS, and the problem is often liver qi stagnation leading to liver yang rising. Is he unusually stressed? Is he a type A personality, driving himself despite his fatigue? Liver qi stagnation often causes the alternating constipation and diarrhea of IBS. Does he have headaches arising from the neck and shoulder pain? What is the nature of his pain? > > I see unraveling his IBS symptoms as of primary importance. He may also have concurrent leaky gut syndrome or candida, which he should be tested for. If you can normalize his bowels, this will help the rapid loss of qi and improve the fatigue. It will also be necessary to strengthen his spleen, and maybe also the kidney, since I do see signs of kidney qi xu as well - frequent urination and cold extremities. > > The mixed symptoms of cold and heat in the stomach and spleen remind me of a Ban Xia Xie Xin Tang presentation. Perhaps you cold explore whether this would be appropriate as a base formula, with some liver soothing herbs. > > Nice case presentation. Good luck and let us know how it goes and what you learn. > > > > Adam Schreiber <chinesemed@v...> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > I have a complex new case which is challenging my beginner's mind in a > big way. I have only seen him twice thus far but I will relate as > much info as I can. Sorry this is kind of long... > > General background: 25 y.o. male who started having health problems 10 > years ago as a teen. His problems started with IBS-like symptoms of > abdominal pain and alternating constipation and diarrhea. These > problems continued for many years with no relief and have > proegressively gotten worse. At 19, he was diagnosed with chronic > fatigue syndrome. Last April (2004) he was diagnosed with Lyme > disaese (via Western blot) though he has no idea when he actually > contracted it - said it could have been at any point in his life. At > some point he got a Fibromyalgia diag too. > > Specifics: > IBS - alternating constipation (up to 3 days with no BM) and pebble > stools and diarrhea a few times per week. Lower abdominal pain and > cramping which is better after moving his bowels. Also with > occasional HTburn, gassy, bloating, belching and indigestion. Abd pain > better with heat. He has tried many diets all to no avail - he > currently eats a whole grain diet with veggies and meat. No sugar, no > coffee. He has a dry mouth, thirst for warm drinks. Occasional > bitter taste in the mouth. His appetite fluctuates from zero to being > very hungry. > > CFS - extreme fatigue every day. Sleep is very irregular - anywhere > from 1-15 hours perday, typically 8-15 hrs. over the course of the > day. Has vivid dreams, nightmares, easily awakened. His energy is > low (1-4/10) - sl. better in late afternoon for a few hours. This > issue has severely impacted his life (along with other issues). > > Lyme - severe neck pain from GB 20 down traps. Entire back is painful > and sore. Extremely sensitive to palpation all over his body. Muscle > cramping, knee and elbow pain. He's very agitated, anxious, edgy, has > a busy mind. Has chronic low grade sore throat and several raging > sore throats/year. He has hypersensitivity of sight, hearing, touch, > smell. Constant PND and phlegm in the throat. He took one year of > oral antibx - which helped initially but now symptoms are getting > worse. > > Other S/S - > postural lightheaded/dizzy few times/week, cold extremities, no > unusual sweating, SOB on exertion, occ. palps, urinary difficulty > (starting and completing urination) urinary frequency (10-15x/day) > with some pain, urgency and dribbling after urination, in general > feels worse w/the change of seasons, stress, hot weather, better > w/heat (sauna or bath), massage, rest, stretching. Sexual energy is > fine. Constant dry eyes, some blurry vision/floaters. Occ. hi-pitch > tinnitus. Some hair loss. Pitting acne. Hx of earaches. Poor > memory in the past few years. > > Tongue - pale, scalloped, red dots in tip, thick yellow coat over the > back half of the tongue. Sublinguals are OK. > > Pulse - tight, slow (today it was 45 bpm) > > My thoughts are - some kind of latent cold/heat combo, Qi xu (Spleen, > Kidney), Blood xu, bi syndrome, some kind of shaoyang syndrome (lots > of alternating symps) and blood and qi stag and ???? > > I have given him one week of herbs (raw) which had minimal effects on > his main problems but some minor improvements. I gave him a combo of > Juan Bi Tang and Xiao Chai Hu Tang plus additions. After seeing him > again today my thoughts are that he is more deficient than I first > thought. But his neck pain is far from deficient. I realize (and > have talked with him about) that the course of treatment may be on the > longer side of things. > > His priorities for tx are #1) neck,back pain #2) digestive > complaints #3) energy/fatigue. > > That's all I can think of at the moment (I think it's quite enough!). > Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > Adam Schreiber > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Hi Andrea This is not so much in response to your insightful response to Adam's IBS/FMS/CFS case, but more a general question as to possible causes/triggers of FMS. I currently see a patient with a Western dx of FMS. Over the past three years she has repeatedly considered giving up her job and her family life suffers from her continuous fatigue. What struck me during the intake is that the onset of her FMS symptoms and accompanying fatigue started shortly after she was put on Atenolol and Bendrofluazide for hypertension. Muscle pains are listed as a common side effect of Atenolol and I reckon that the 'water pill' would disrupt the electrolyte balance and further aggravate the situation. Have you - or anyone else on the list - ever come across as those meds causing FMS-like symtpoms? When she suggested this to her GP he dismissed this idea, but is agreeable for her to discontinue the meds and try to control her blood pressure with herbs. Similarly to Adam's case this patient has SP/LV imbalance, is quite overweight (the weight gain occured mainly with onset of symptoms) and also has some Yin xu signs (she is 47). Many thanks for any responses/feedback. Kind regards Johanna Schuster, MAOM, Lic.Ac., MATCM(UK) , <> wrote: > Hi Adam, > > This is a complicated case, indeed. I have fibromyalgia myself, and am treating a few individuals with complicated, Western diagnoses that are different from your patient, but the presentations and TCM diagnoses are quite similar. I'm in my 3rd year of practice, and all of a sudden I am seeing lots of knotty diseases, and I also feel like a beginner - but my own journey through fibromyalgia and a lifetime of weird diseases has taught me alot, and I do quite a bit of research on my patients' behalf. So I hope what I say here is of some use to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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