Guest guest Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 I have made my own " lazer " where I had specific crystals cut into specilized shapes and had it is connected to an DC light source , the light penetrates the crystal which is held onto acupuncture points. It doesn't shoot a beam like traditonal lazers but patients actually feel the de qi and " qi " moving around the body and causing reactions etc. I found with traditional lazers patients never felt that.The other thing I found that patients after a session with it can sort of feel pumped up as if having done qi gong etc Heiko Lade M.H.Sc.(TCM) Lecturer and clinic supervisor Auckland College of Natural Medicine Website: www.acnm.co.nz - Adam Schreiber Friday, August 26, 2005 3:57 PM Re: Lyme, IBS, CFS Hi Andrea- Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Yes, all of the sypmtoms of his western diagnoses overlap - in his mind the Lyme is the main factor. He barely even mentioned that he had been diagnosed with FM (though he clearly has a FM presentation) - it was more like, somewhere along the way in his visits to countless docs, he got a diag. of FM. Which came first? and does it even matter at this point? And what is the priority from my perspective in terms of treatment? He does not seem to be a type A person who pushes himself - actually he stopped work, dropped out of the Marines and doesn't have much of a life right now (esp. for a 25 year old). That being said, I don't have a great grasp yet on what he is like emotionally. His neck pain is so severe (sharp) you can see it - he is very stiff and cautious when moving his head. He doesn't seem overly stressed - aggravated about being unhealthy, yes. There is definitely some wood-earth disharmony. In terms of his hyper-sensitivity - it is a relatively new thing for him, it was not present before he became ill. Thanks again and I'll post again with any developments. Adam , <> wrote: > Hi Adam, > > This is a complicated case, indeed. I have fibromyalgia myself, and am treating a few individuals with complicated, Western diagnoses that are different from your patient, but the presentations and TCM diagnoses are quite similar. I'm in my 3rd year of practice, and all of a sudden I am seeing lots of knotty diseases, and I also feel like a beginner - but my own journey through fibromyalgia and a lifetime of weird diseases has taught me alot, and I do quite a bit of research on my patients' behalf. So I hope what I say here is of some use to you. > > Everyone I know with fibromyalgia has symptoms that are worse with cold, and also with hot, humid weather. Seasonal changes and stress also worsen fibromyalgia symptoms, so what you wrote may be not be due to the Lyme disease. There are some doctors who believe that fibromyalgia and CFS are actually the same disease, which manifest differently in folks with different constitutions, some showing more fatigue and frequent sore throats, and others presenting more with body pain. It is not uncommon to see patients with both presentations. And IBS is a common diagnosis with fibromyalgia, as are anxiety and depression. > > Many people with fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue have always been highly sensitive all their lives. They fit the category of Highly Sensitive Persons, and a book has been written about people who are extremely sensitive in this way. It is called The Highly Sensitive Person, by Elaine Aron. This might underlie your patient's hypersensitivity to sights, sounds, smells, etc. An interestng read. I am one of these people, and I participated in research studies the author did prior to the release of her book. > > I have a patient with fibromyalgia and the most wrecked digestive system I've ever seen or heard of (she cannot eat real food). Her liver is also horribly stuck and she has a history of extreme childhood abuse. Her chief complaint is chronic headaches, then depression, then her digestive system last. I think in order to relieve her headaches in any lasting way, I'd need to untangle the wood-earth disharmony, which seems to me would take a very long time. This is not her priority, so it is hard to encourage her to buy into this treatment. So I am also addressing her headaches simultaneously. I have another patient who has fibro, who only wants to address weight loss - a worthy goal for her. She claims she suffers from extreme hunger, but careful questioning reveals that she isn't physically hungry; she eats for emotional satisfaction. She doesn't want to acknowledge that she is extremely angry, and this is what drives her to eat too much. And so addressing her anger is not > her priority. > > My point is that I am learning that sometimes what our clients want to address isn't necessarily what will heal them, and sometimes what they want is different from what they need. > > In your patient's case, I'd like to know about his psycho-emotional state. I see lots of folks who have chronic neck and shoulder pain with IBS, and the problem is often liver qi stagnation leading to liver yang rising. Is he unusually stressed? Is he a type A personality, driving himself despite his fatigue? Liver qi stagnation often causes the alternating constipation and diarrhea of IBS. Does he have headaches arising from the neck and shoulder pain? What is the nature of his pain? > > I see unraveling his IBS symptoms as of primary importance. He may also have concurrent leaky gut syndrome or candida, which he should be tested for. If you can normalize his bowels, this will help the rapid loss of qi and improve the fatigue. It will also be necessary to strengthen his spleen, and maybe also the kidney, since I do see signs of kidney qi xu as well - frequent urination and cold extremities. > > The mixed symptoms of cold and heat in the stomach and spleen remind me of a Ban Xia Xie Xin Tang presentation. Perhaps you cold explore whether this would be appropriate as a base formula, with some liver soothing herbs. > > Nice case presentation. Good luck and let us know how it goes and what you learn. > > > > Adam Schreiber <chinesemed@v...> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > I have a complex new case which is challenging my beginner's mind in a > big way. I have only seen him twice thus far but I will relate as > much info as I can. Sorry this is kind of long... > > General background: 25 y.o. male who started having health problems 10 > years ago as a teen. His problems started with IBS-like symptoms of > abdominal pain and alternating constipation and diarrhea. These > problems continued for many years with no relief and have > proegressively gotten worse. At 19, he was diagnosed with chronic > fatigue syndrome. Last April (2004) he was diagnosed with Lyme > disaese (via Western blot) though he has no idea when he actually > contracted it - said it could have been at any point in his life. At > some point he got a Fibromyalgia diag too. > > Specifics: > IBS - alternating constipation (up to 3 days with no BM) and pebble > stools and diarrhea a few times per week. Lower abdominal pain and > cramping which is better after moving his bowels. Also with > occasional HTburn, gassy, bloating, belching and indigestion. Abd pain > better with heat. He has tried many diets all to no avail - he > currently eats a whole grain diet with veggies and meat. No sugar, no > coffee. He has a dry mouth, thirst for warm drinks. Occasional > bitter taste in the mouth. His appetite fluctuates from zero to being > very hungry. > > CFS - extreme fatigue every day. Sleep is very irregular - anywhere > from 1-15 hours perday, typically 8-15 hrs. over the course of the > day. Has vivid dreams, nightmares, easily awakened. His energy is > low (1-4/10) - sl. better in late afternoon for a few hours. This > issue has severely impacted his life (along with other issues). > > Lyme - severe neck pain from GB 20 down traps. Entire back is painful > and sore. Extremely sensitive to palpation all over his body. Muscle > cramping, knee and elbow pain. He's very agitated, anxious, edgy, has > a busy mind. Has chronic low grade sore throat and several raging > sore throats/year. He has hypersensitivity of sight, hearing, touch, > smell. Constant PND and phlegm in the throat. He took one year of > oral antibx - which helped initially but now symptoms are getting > worse. > > Other S/S - > postural lightheaded/dizzy few times/week, cold extremities, no > unusual sweating, SOB on exertion, occ. palps, urinary difficulty > (starting and completing urination) urinary frequency (10-15x/day) > with some pain, urgency and dribbling after urination, in general > feels worse w/the change of seasons, stress, hot weather, better > w/heat (sauna or bath), massage, rest, stretching. Sexual energy is > fine. Constant dry eyes, some blurry vision/floaters. Occ. hi-pitch > tinnitus. Some hair loss. Pitting acne. Hx of earaches. Poor > memory in the past few years. > > Tongue - pale, scalloped, red dots in tip, thick yellow coat over the > back half of the tongue. Sublinguals are OK. > > Pulse - tight, slow (today it was 45 bpm) > > My thoughts are - some kind of latent cold/heat combo, Qi xu (Spleen, > Kidney), Blood xu, bi syndrome, some kind of shaoyang syndrome (lots > of alternating symps) and blood and qi stag and ???? > > I have given him one week of herbs (raw) which had minimal effects on > his main problems but some minor improvements. I gave him a combo of > Juan Bi Tang and Xiao Chai Hu Tang plus additions. After seeing him > again today my thoughts are that he is more deficient than I first > thought. But his neck pain is far from deficient. I realize (and > have talked with him about) that the course of treatment may be on the > longer side of things. > > His priorities for tx are #1) neck,back pain #2) digestive > complaints #3) energy/fatigue. > > That's all I can think of at the moment (I think it's quite enough!). > Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > Adam Schreiber > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 I have made my own " lazer " where I had specific crystals cut into specilized shapes and had it is connected to an DC light source , the light penetrates the crystal which is held onto acupuncture points. It doesn't shoot a beam like traditonal lazers but patients actually feel the de qi and " qi " moving around the body and causing reactions etc. I found with traditional lazers patients never felt that.The other thing I found that patients after a session with it can sort of feel pumped up as if having done qi gong etc >>>>> What did you find with traditional lasers in terms of clinical outcome. From my experience the results are greatly inflamed. Do you have any idea what wave length light you are making? Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 My personal experience with traditional lazers is that I didn't get results. Other practioners I know rave about them in the treatment of eg kids ear infections etc , I looked into what typwe of wave length I was making but would have to look it up, there was a chart I had in a book somewhere ..... I also found that just a soft light was best, I tried making a strong light but it seemed to aggravate, also an AC light source did not work. A physics person told me that the DC light is more stable and showed me on a graph to compare AC with DC. Heiko Lade M.H.Sc.(TCM) Lecturer and clinic supervisor Auckland College of Natural Medicine Website: www.acnm.co.nz - Monday, August 29, 2005 12:24 PM Re: Re: lazer cont I have made my own " lazer " where I had specific crystals cut into specilized shapes and had it is connected to an DC light source , the light penetrates the crystal which is held onto acupuncture points. It doesn't shoot a beam like traditonal lazers but patients actually feel the de qi and " qi " moving around the body and causing reactions etc. I found with traditional lazers patients never felt that.The other thing I found that patients after a session with it can sort of feel pumped up as if having done qi gong etc >>>>> What did you find with traditional lasers in terms of clinical outcome. From my experience the results are greatly inflamed. Do you have any idea what wave length light you are making? Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 Alon: I have a erchonia laser and get great results with it. After reading your post, do you think that I may also get the same response of de qi if I put a quartz crystal on the acupuncture point and than beamed the laser light thru the crystal. If this may work, what size of crystal would you recommend and where would I purchase the crystal. Thanks Brian <alonmarcus wrote: I have made my own " lazer " where I had specific crystals cut into specilized shapes and had it is connected to an DC light source , the light penetrates the crystal which is held onto acupuncture points. It doesn't shoot a beam like traditonal lazers but patients actually feel the de qi and " qi " moving around the body and causing reactions etc. I found with traditional lazers patients never felt that.The other thing I found that patients after a session with it can sort of feel pumped up as if having done qi gong etc >>>>> What did you find with traditional lasers in terms of clinical outcome. From my experience the results are greatly inflamed. Do you have any idea what wave length light you are making? Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Brian Hardy What is an erchonia lazer? Amythyst works better than clear quartz on acupuncture points. I have tried beaming infra red etc lazer through crystals but found that just normal light works better Heiko Lade M.H.Sc.(TCM) Lecturer and clinic supervisor Auckland College of Natural Medicine Website: www.acnm.co.nz - Brian Hardy Monday, August 29, 2005 3:56 PM Re: Re: lazer cont Alon: I have a erchonia laser and get great results with it. After reading your post, do you think that I may also get the same response of de qi if I put a quartz crystal on the acupuncture point and than beamed the laser light thru the crystal. If this may work, what size of crystal would you recommend and where would I purchase the crystal. Thanks Brian <alonmarcus wrote: I have made my own " lazer " where I had specific crystals cut into specilized shapes and had it is connected to an DC light source , the light penetrates the crystal which is held onto acupuncture points. It doesn't shoot a beam like traditonal lazers but patients actually feel the de qi and " qi " moving around the body and causing reactions etc. I found with traditional lazers patients never felt that.The other thing I found that patients after a session with it can sort of feel pumped up as if having done qi gong etc >>>>> What did you find with traditional lasers in terms of clinical outcome. From my experience the results are greatly inflamed. Do you have any idea what wave length light you are making? Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Here is some information from NASA on LEDs The NASA Light-Emitting Diode Medical Program - Progress in Space Flight and Terrestrial Applications Harry T. Whelan, M.D.1a,2,3, John M Houle, B.S.1a, Noel T. Whelan1a,3, Deborah L. Donohoe, A.S., L.A.T.G.1a, Joan Cwiklinski, M.S.N., C.P.N.P.1a, Meic H. Schmidt, M.D.1c, Lisa Gould, M.D., PhD.1b, David Larson, M.D.1b, Glenn A. Meyer, M.D.1a, Vita Cevenini3, Helen Stinson, B.S.3 1a Departments of Neurology, 1bPlastic Surgery and 1cNeurosurgery, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, WI 53226, (414) 456-4090 2Naval Special Warfare Group TWO, Norfolk, VA 23521, (757) 462-7759 3NASA-Marshall Space Flight Center, AL 35812, (256) 544-2121 Abstract. This work is supported and managed through the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center - SBIR Program. Studies on cells exposed to microgravity and hypergravity indicate that human cells need gravity to stimulate cell growth. As the gravitational force increases or decreases, the cell function responds in a linear fashion. This poses significant health risks for astronauts in long term space flight. LED-technology developed for NASA plant grown experiments in space shows promise for delivering light deep into tissues of the body to promote wound healing and human tissue growth. This LED-technology is also biologically optimal for photodynamic therapy of cancer. LED-ENHANCEMENT OF CELL GROWTH The application of light therapy with the use of NASA LED's will significantly improve the medical care that is available to astronauts on long-term space missions. NASA LED's stimulate the basic energy processes in the mitochondria (energy compartments) of each cell, particularly when near-infrared light is used to activate the color sensitive chemicals (chromophores, cytochrome systems) inside. Optimal LED wavelengths include 680, 730 and 880 nm. The depth of near-infrared light penetration into human tissue has been measured spectroscopically (Chance, et al 1988). Spectra taken from the wrist flexor muscles in the forearm and muscles in the calf of the leg demonstrate that most of the light photons at wavelengths between 630-800 nm travel 23 cm through the surface tissue and muscle between input and exit at the photon detector. Our laboratory has improved the healing of wounds in laboratory animals by using NASA LED light and hyperbaric oxygen. Furthermore, DNA synthesis in fibroblasts and muscle cells has been quintupled using NASA LED light alone, in a single application combining 680, 730, and 880 nm each at 4 Joules per centimeter squared. Muscle and bone atrophy are well documented in astronauts, and various minor injuries occurring in space have been reported not to heal until landing on Earth. Long term space flight, with its many inherent risks, also raises the possibility of astronauts being injured performing their required tasks. The fact that the normal healing process is negatively affected by microgravity requires novel approaches to improve wound healing and tissue growth in space. NASA LED arrays have already flown on Space Shuttle missions for studies of plant growth. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved human trials. The use of light therapy with LED's is an approach to help increase the rate of wound healing in the microgravity environment, reducing the risk of treatable injuries becoming mission catastrophes. Wounds heal less effectively in space than here on Earth. Improved wound healing may have multiple applications that benefit civilian medical care, military situations and long-term space flight. Laser light and hyperbaric oxygen have been widely acclaimed to speed wound healing in ischemic, hypoxic wounds. An excellent review of recent human experience with near-infrared light therapy for wound healing was published by Conlan, et al in 1996. Lasers provide low energy stimulation of tissues that results in increased cellular activity during wound healing (Beauvoit, 1989, 1995; Eggert, 1993; Karu, 1989; Lubart, 1992, 1997; Salansky, 1998; Whelan, 1999; Yu, 1997). Some of these activities include increased fibroblast proliferation, growth factor syntheses, collagen production and angiogenesis. Lasers, however, have some inherent characteristics, which make their use in a clinical setting problematic, including limitations in wavelengths and beam width. The combined wavelengths of light optimal for wound healing cannot be efficiently produced, and the size of wounds which may be treated by lasers is limited. Light-emitting diodes (LED's) offer an effective alternative to lasers. These diodes can be made to produce multiple wavelengths, and can be arranged in large, flat arrays allowing treatment of large wounds. Our experiments suggest potential for using LED light therapy at 680, 730 and 880 nm simultaneously, alone and in combination with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, both alone and in combination, to accelerate the healing process in Space Station Missions, where prolonged exposure to microgravity may otherwise retard healing. NASA LED's have proven to stimulate wound healing at near-infrared wavelengths of 680, 730 and 880 nm in laboratory animals, and have been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for human trials. Furthermore, near-infrared LED light has quintupled the growth of fibroblasts and muscle cells in tissue culture. The NASA LED arrays are light enough and mobile enough to have already flown on the Space Shuttle numerous times. LED arrays may prove to be useful for improving wound healing and treating problem wounds, as well as speeding the return of deconditioned personnel to full duty performance. Potential benefits to NASA, military, and civilian populations include treatment of serious burns, crush injuries, non-healing fractures, muscle and bone atrophy, traumatic ischemic wounds, radiation tissue damage, compromised skin grafts, and tissue regeneration. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 I have a erchonia laser and get great results with it. >>>>Please elaborate. Results in what conditions and what do you mean by great results Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 If this may work, what size of crystal would you recommend and where would I purchase the crystal. >>>>>>> Brian i have never done this. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Gentlmen, I fail to see how lazer or LED are related to Chinese herbal therapy and if they are, then I missed that class. Can we please stick with content on this forum. This topic is more than acceptable on the many other forums or off list. Thanks Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " " <alonmarcus > > >Re: Re: lazer cont >Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:11:38 -0700 > >Here is some information from NASA on LEDs > >The NASA Light-Emitting Diode Medical Program - >Progress in Space Flight and Terrestrial Applications > >Harry T. Whelan, M.D.1a,2,3, John M Houle, B.S.1a, >Noel T. Whelan1a,3, Deborah L. Donohoe, A.S., L.A.T.G.1a, >Joan Cwiklinski, M.S.N., C.P.N.P.1a, Meic H. Schmidt, M.D.1c, >Lisa Gould, M.D., PhD.1b, David Larson, M.D.1b, >Glenn A. Meyer, M.D.1a, Vita Cevenini3, Helen Stinson, B.S.3 >1a Departments of Neurology, 1bPlastic Surgery and 1cNeurosurgery, >Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, WI 53226, (414) 456-4090 >2Naval Special Warfare Group TWO, Norfolk, VA 23521, (757) 462-7759 >3NASA-Marshall Space Flight Center, AL 35812, (256) 544-2121 > >Abstract. This work is supported and managed through the NASA Marshall >Space Flight Center - SBIR Program. Studies on cells exposed to >microgravity and hypergravity indicate that human cells need gravity to >stimulate cell growth. As the gravitational force increases or decreases, >the cell function responds in a linear fashion. This poses significant >health risks for astronauts in long term space flight. LED-technology >developed for NASA plant grown experiments in space shows promise for >delivering light deep into tissues of the body to promote wound healing and >human tissue growth. This LED-technology is also biologically optimal for >photodynamic therapy of cancer. > >LED-ENHANCEMENT OF CELL GROWTH > >The application of light therapy with the use of NASA LED's will >significantly improve the medical care that is available to astronauts on >long-term space missions. NASA LED's stimulate the basic energy processes >in the mitochondria (energy compartments) of each cell, particularly when >near-infrared light is used to activate the color sensitive chemicals >(chromophores, cytochrome systems) inside. Optimal LED wavelengths include >680, 730 and 880 nm. The depth of near-infrared light penetration into >human tissue has been measured spectroscopically (Chance, et al 1988). >Spectra taken from the wrist flexor muscles in the forearm and muscles in >the calf of the leg demonstrate that most of the light photons at >wavelengths between 630-800 nm travel 23 cm through the surface tissue and >muscle between input and exit at the photon detector. Our laboratory has >improved the healing of wounds in laboratory animals by using NASA LED >light and hyperbaric oxygen. Furthermore, DNA synthesis in fibroblasts and >muscle cells has been quintupled using NASA LED light alone, in a single >application combining 680, 730, and 880 nm each at 4 Joules per centimeter >squared. > >Muscle and bone atrophy are well documented in astronauts, and various >minor injuries occurring in space have been reported not to heal until >landing on Earth. Long term space flight, with its many inherent risks, >also raises the possibility of astronauts being injured performing their >required tasks. The fact that the normal healing process is negatively >affected by microgravity requires novel approaches to improve wound healing >and tissue growth in space. NASA LED arrays have already flown on Space >Shuttle missions for studies of plant growth. The U.S. Food and Drug >Administration (FDA) has approved human trials. The use of light therapy >with LED's is an approach to help increase the rate of wound healing in the >microgravity environment, reducing the risk of treatable injuries becoming >mission catastrophes. > >Wounds heal less effectively in space than here on Earth. Improved wound >healing may have multiple applications that benefit civilian medical care, >military situations and long-term space flight. Laser light and hyperbaric >oxygen have been widely acclaimed to speed wound healing in ischemic, >hypoxic wounds. An excellent review of recent human experience with >near-infrared light therapy for wound healing was published by Conlan, et >al in 1996. Lasers provide low energy stimulation of tissues that results >in increased cellular activity during wound healing (Beauvoit, 1989, 1995; >Eggert, 1993; Karu, 1989; Lubart, 1992, 1997; Salansky, 1998; Whelan, 1999; >Yu, 1997). Some of these activities include increased fibroblast >proliferation, growth factor syntheses, collagen production and >angiogenesis. > >Lasers, however, have some inherent characteristics, which make their use >in a clinical setting problematic, including limitations in wavelengths and >beam width. The combined wavelengths of light optimal for wound healing >cannot be efficiently produced, and the size of wounds which may be treated >by lasers is limited. Light-emitting diodes (LED's) offer an effective >alternative to lasers. These diodes can be made to produce multiple >wavelengths, and can be arranged in large, flat arrays allowing treatment >of large wounds. Our experiments suggest potential for using LED light >therapy at 680, 730 and 880 nm simultaneously, alone and in combination >with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, both alone and in combination, to >accelerate the healing process in Space Station Missions, where prolonged >exposure to microgravity may otherwise retard healing. NASA LED's have >proven to stimulate wound healing at near-infrared wavelengths of 680, 730 >and 880 nm in laboratory animals, and have been approved by the U.S. Food >and Drug Administration (FDA) for human trials. Furthermore, near-infrared >LED light has quintupled the growth of fibroblasts and muscle cells in >tissue culture. The NASA LED arrays are light enough and mobile enough to >have already flown on the Space Shuttle numerous times. LED arrays may >prove to be useful for improving wound healing and treating problem wounds, >as well as speeding the return of deconditioned personnel to full duty >performance. Potential benefits to NASA, military, and civilian populations >include treatment of serious burns, crush injuries, non-healing fractures, >muscle and bone atrophy, traumatic ischemic wounds, radiation tissue >damage, compromised skin grafts, and tissue regeneration. > > > > > > >Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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