Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I have a patient with both low back pain and groin pain. His LBP has responded well to acupuncture and herbs, but his groin pain ® is sometimes worse. Knowing the etiology of his groin pain is difficult as his tongue has been affected by the removal of his salivary glands following throat cancer and his pulse feels like one big long hard artery. Any ideas? Young Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 maybe the groin pain is something more serious, some suggest that the luo vessels that trap pathogens can correspond to glands etc and he has a history of cancer (throat) . maybe consider extra tests and use luo vessels and points and medicines to clear network vessels si guo luo etc and blood stasis and phlegm etc I think Bob Flaws has a list some where of medicines that treat luo vessels ? Heiko Lade M.H.Sc.(TCM) Lecturer and clinic supervisor Auckland College of Natural Medicine Website: www.acnm.co.nz - Young Song Monday, September 05, 2005 1:58 PM groin pain I have a patient with both low back pain and groin pain. His LBP has responded well to acupuncture and herbs, but his groin pain ® is sometimes worse. Knowing the etiology of his groin pain is difficult as his tongue has been affected by the removal of his salivary glands following throat cancer and his pulse feels like one big long hard artery. Any ideas? Young Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 I have a patient with both low back pain and groin pain. His LBP has responded well to acupuncture and herbs, but his groin pain ® is sometimes worse. Knowing the etiology of his groin pain is difficult as his tongue has been affected by the removal of his salivary glands following throat cancer and his pulse feels like one big long hard artery. Any ideas? >>>>>> If groin pain is due to musculoskeletal the two most common causes are the hip and iliolumbar ligaments. Check these and if needed treat them Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2005 Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 Hi Young, I have a patient with these same symptoms. His low back pain preceded the groin pain by many, many years. His groin pain showed up a few years before a hernia, which was surgically repaired last year, but the pain persists. On the first visit, I treated his back, which helped his back but worsened his groin pain. Second visit, I treated the groin area, with the addition of distal liver channel points. This helped his groin pain, but the treatment freaked him out, so he didn't want this treatment again - he didn't say so, but I think it was too close to the genital area for him. Third visit, pain in both areas remained improved but not gone, and I again treated his back. He has decided to return if the pain worsens. He and his doctor both believed the pain in both areas were due to his involvement in an accident 30 years ago, in which he was sandwiched between a truck and a steel bench. Nothing was broken, but he had serious tearing in the groin area, with his right testicle needing to be reattached. This is the same side as his groin pain. That his back pain existed before this accident makes me think the two are not related. Same for the groin pain with the history of hernia, and the timing of the appearance (and severity) of pain in relation to the accident. His pain was quite severe before his treatments, and now it is low enough for him to sleep and not need to take pain medication. I would prefer to pursue even more relief, but this level is satisfactory to him at this time. You might have your patient evaluated medically for a hernia. In TCM, it is called shan disorder. There are several types, and you can see if your patient's symptoms match. There are some good descriptions of the various patterns in Wiseman's dictionary. Good luck, Young Song <youngsong1210 wrote: I have a patient with both low back pain and groin pain. His LBP has responded well to acupuncture and herbs, but his groin pain ® is sometimes worse. Knowing the etiology of his groin pain is difficult as his tongue has been affected by the removal of his salivary glands following throat cancer and his pulse feels like one big long hard artery. Any ideas? Young Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2005 Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 Andrea You need to do physical exams of back, pelvis and hip. When you do i can give you more suggestions Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2005 Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 Thanks, Alon. However, I was sharing my experience in reference to the post asking for help with a similar condition. I wasn't asking for help, my patient is quite satisfied with the results of his treatment. <alonmarcus wrote: Andrea You need to do physical exams of back, pelvis and hip. When you do i can give you more suggestions Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2005 Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 I wasn't asking for help, my patient is quite satisfied with the results of his treatment >>>>>> I thought he still had groin pain or was it a different case Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2005 Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 He's an odd guy. Was more interested in managing a low level of pain than in getting rid of it, so long as he could sleep and function without meds. So he stopped coming for treatments. Andrea Beth <alonmarcus wrote: I wasn't asking for help, my patient is quite satisfied with the results of his treatment >>>>>> I thought he still had groin pain or was it a different case Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2005 Report Share Posted September 7, 2005 He's an odd guy. Was more interested in managing a low level of pain than in getting rid of it, so long as he could sleep and function without meds. So he stopped coming for treatments >>>>> I find this to be quite common. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 If the channel area affected is associated with the LR, have you tried needling ashi points on the left (opposite) side along the GB channel on the upper thigh? You may need to insert a series of needles along this channel. Palpate or have patient move painful area right after needling and immediate relief should insue, if not, the channel location is inaccurate. Retain needles for at least 1/2 hour and restimulate at least once. Good luck, Daniel , Young Song <youngsong1210> wrote: > I have a patient with both low back pain and groin pain. His LBP has responded well to acupuncture and herbs, but his groin pain ® is sometimes worse. Knowing the etiology of his groin pain is difficult as his tongue has been affected by the removal of his salivary glands following throat cancer and his pulse feels like one big long hard artery. Any ideas? > > Young > > > > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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