Guest guest Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Quantum mechanics is the branch of physics that has inspired a lot of new age rhetoric. But there is a critical issue that many seem to miss. Quantum mechanics was a surprise to physicists because it is only apparent at the quantum level. Einstein denied it all his life as result. He was wrong, but the point is that quantum mechanics does not explain any macroscopic phenomena. It does not apply to music or acupuncture needles or homeopathy. It applies to subatomic particles only. So principles like uncertainty and nonlocal phenomena in medicine are not explained by physics, if they exist at all. All physicists agree that the macroscopic world is explained by classical mechanics. Be a maverick if you will, but don't cloak youyr fantasies in science unless you can refer to peer reviewed journals to defend yourself. It is just an embarassment to us all. Chinese Herbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Mike, I think Todd can speak for himself, but quantum mechanics is physics. I am unclear what you are saying / questioning. But it clearly has fueled much of the new-age movement. An interesting example is from the movie, " What the Bleep do we know " (Which I would say, as much as I liked the movie, is pretty new-agey) - There was a large backlash for the presentation of the movie; but the funny thing is, it was not from the religious groups (Which the authors thought would be the case), but the physicists and scientists which thought such a representation was unjust. Who knows if it was or not. But books like the 'dao of physics' (more a new-age read than actual physics) has been reported by many experts to be somewhat of a farce. But everyone has their opinion. So the real issue is not if integration is right or wrong. I think it is inevitable. I have always been supportive of integration with Western Medicine. Mike, are you supportive of this? But the real issue as Alon, Z'ev, myself, (and others) have noted is 1) One must (FIRST) have a firm grasp of CM - few do. 2) One must have a firm grasp of what one is integrating. 3) Be clear what is what. 4) Have some methodology and way of testing. (The Chinese spend immense amount of energy verifying western medicine integrative ideas.) We should do the same with physics. Like I have mentioned I have seen numerous people integrating this stuff (at least verbally) with a very limited knowledge of CM - This is IMO - folly. You argue for classes in discussing quantum physics? I think that is awesome, but first why not basic classes in Chinese. The students barely know CM at this point. One step at a time. I think it is much easier to ramble about possible correlations between sub-atomic particle / wave mumbo jumbo and the nature of the dao (Because it is so abstract and interesting) than actually studying the basics of CM, or Chinese language. Finally, I really would like to see how the QP actually changes one practice of medicine, verses just gives another (maybe more complete) view of how things are working. (I have a huge interest in Physics, but I am at a loss to say that it changes much of my practice.) It is just fun to talk about. But maybe we can end this as: Integrative is necessary and important, and let us forge a path that is responsible and not haphazard. Regards, - > > > On Behalf Of mike Bowser > Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:49 AM > > RE: quantum physics > > > > I thought we were talking physics not mechanics. If you are going to make > blanket statements about truth then provide references, please. If you > will > continue to make absurd statements and call them facts, please show > references to back up these non-sensical statements. I would actually > like > to know how you come up with some of this BS. The rest is fodder for the > garbage. > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > < > > > >cha > > quantum physics > >Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:11:56 -0700 > > > >Quantum mechanics is the branch of physics that has inspired a lot of > >new age rhetoric. But there is a critical issue that many seem to > >miss. Quantum mechanics was a surprise to physicists because it is > >only apparent at the quantum level. Einstein denied it all his life > >as result. He was wrong, but the point is that quantum mechanics > >does not explain any macroscopic phenomena. It does not apply to > >music or acupuncture needles or homeopathy. It applies to subatomic > >particles only. So principles like uncertainty and nonlocal > >phenomena in medicine are not explained by physics, if they exist at > >all. All physicists agree that the macroscopic world is explained by > >classical mechanics. Be a maverick if you will, but don't cloak > >youyr fantasies in science unless you can refer to peer reviewed > >journals to defend yourself. It is just an embarassment to us all. > > > > > > > >Chinese Herbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a > free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Could we define (loosely) what a " firm grasp of CM " entails? Sincerely, Brandt Stickley , " " <@c...> wrote: > Mike, > > I think Todd can speak for himself, but quantum mechanics is physics. I am > unclear what you are saying / questioning. But it clearly has fueled much > of the new-age movement. An interesting example is from the movie, " What > the Bleep do we know " (Which I would say, as much as I liked the movie, is > pretty new-agey) - There was a large backlash for the presentation of the > movie; but the funny thing is, it was not from the religious groups (Which > the authors thought would be the case), but the physicists and scientists > which thought such a representation was unjust. Who knows if it was or not. > But books like the 'dao of physics' (more a new-age read than actual > physics) has been reported by many experts to be somewhat of a farce. But > everyone has their opinion. So the real issue is not if integration is > right or wrong. I think it is inevitable. I have always been supportive of > integration with Western Medicine. Mike, are you supportive of this? > > But the real issue as Alon, Z'ev, myself, (and others) have noted is > 1) One must (FIRST) have a firm grasp of CM - few do. > 2) One must have a firm grasp of what one is integrating. > 3) Be clear what is what. > 4) Have some methodology and way of testing. (The Chinese spend immense > amount of energy verifying western medicine integrative ideas.) We should > do the same with physics. > > Like I have mentioned I have seen numerous people integrating this stuff (at > least verbally) with a very limited knowledge of CM - This is IMO - folly. > > You argue for classes in discussing quantum physics? I think that is > awesome, but first why not basic classes in Chinese. The students barely > know CM at this point. One step at a time. I think it is much easier to > ramble about possible correlations between sub-atomic particle / wave mumbo > jumbo and the nature of the dao (Because it is so abstract and interesting) > than actually studying the basics of CM, or Chinese language. > > Finally, I really would like to see how the QP actually changes one practice > of medicine, verses just gives another (maybe more complete) view of how > things are working. (I have a huge interest in Physics, but I am at a loss > to say that it changes much of my practice.) It is just fun to talk about. > > But maybe we can end this as: Integrative is necessary and important, and > let us forge a path that is responsible and not haphazard. > > Regards, > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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