Guest guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi Heiko Thanks for the article quantum biology. To me this article is the ultimate in la la science paper. It builds up on a pyramid of totally unsubstantiated statements. The part where he talks about referred pain shows the shallowness of the article. As a matter of fact we know much more about referred pain than just the idea that there is an error in the nervous system. Also he is wrong saying referred pain occurs only with disease. Referred pain can be stimulated under normal physiologic conditions, for example, every time we get Da Qi. Referred pain most of the time does not follow the TCM channels, except for small parts of them. If the Pacific J of Oriental Medicine is a peer reviewed j it does so poorly. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi Alon Good to see you read the article. I found it interesting , but to be honest didn't quite understand how he came up with the frequency measurements for the channels. Thanks for the review, but I expect not all things written in experimental theories are right. This Frazer guy who wrote the article, has patented some acupuncture diagnostic and treatment machine which I found through google etc, I think they are expensive as there is only one in NZ. No harm in seeing if it helps ...when I find out where it is.I will let you know. Heiko Lade M.H.Sc.(TCM) Lecturer and clinic supervisor Auckland College of Natural Medicine Website: www.acnm.co.nz - Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:22 PM Re: Quantum Biology Hi Heiko Thanks for the article quantum biology. To me this article is the ultimate in la la science paper. It builds up on a pyramid of totally unsubstantiated statements. The part where he talks about referred pain shows the shallowness of the article. As a matter of fact we know much more about referred pain than just the idea that there is an error in the nervous system. Also he is wrong saying referred pain occurs only with disease. Referred pain can be stimulated under normal physiologic conditions, for example, every time we get Da Qi. Referred pain most of the time does not follow the TCM channels, except for small parts of them. If the Pacific J of Oriental Medicine is a peer reviewed j it does so poorly. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hi All, I'm finding it interesting everyone talking about Quantum-stuff. It is a wide field right now. There is a lot of interesting experimentation going on that is weirder than what everyone is arguing about. I'm researching microtubule tunneling theory and experimentation. I'm at a university and I have access to many journals and research papers through the on-line library. I'm not reading the popularized stuff. I'm reading science. I've gotten real interesting into the ordering of water molecules. I recently discovered that water is the densest substance in the body. So when it is hammered on, it goes out, thus much of organ damage. But there are many many more things going on with water, with its dipole properties and its hydrogen bonding, that can have some very high frequency change states within very small places such as the center of a microtubule molecule. I'm learning stuff that is in textbooks that weren't in them just a few years ago. I'm also learning stuff that isn't in them yet. There is a guy named William Tiller, who has been doing an incredible number of experiments with coherence and consciousness, especially with intention. I can't follow all his math yet, but his experiments are to change material things just through intention. I'm sad too that Todd has equated the leadership of acupuncture with religious fanatics. I think that parent's comment came from ignorance. There is a fair amount of what people do in acupuncture field that is on the artistic side. But any really good doctor will say that sometimes intuition is very important in the process. Most doctors before antibiotics came along believed in the relationship between doctor and patient is part of the medicine. The age of antibiotics saving us from disease is coming to a close. There is still more to know. It is my personal belief that we must respect the mystery and live with it. It will always be with us, and with life and death, sometimes we really don't know what to do. I hate those moments and then kindness is really a good idea and it should be there all along. Where does kindness fit into science? Can someone tell me? Come on, get real. The day we quantify ourselves is the day were just as good as a machine. Well we're better and we know it. A big thing that has happened to all of us in western civilization is we have all learned to mistrust our senses. To not pay attention to all that is going on. We've all gotten caught up into the word trance of our culture. The earlier we learn to write and build our vocabulary, the deeper that trance. The less we had of wandering in the wild, the deeper that trance. So this is something I really like about Chinese medicine, we get to practice seeing, hearing, smelling and sensing. Hopefully thats so. Making sure everybody memorizes this and that and this, but still lack basic sense training is a shame. Teaching students to think and be aware is a big deal. Probably I'm preaching to the choir. Science is a queer bedfellow to validating all that we are doing. Somehow our human senses are suspect. Maybe they are cause we are so much in trance and lack the experience of being present. Loading up and loading up on the technical assurances will not make us any more present. I listened to a Native elder the other day. The thing that stuck is the lack of naming everything and explaining every experience before they happen, so that a child is learning with observation, so that by age 11, they can navigate the open seas, sense storms coming, make their way in deep fog to where they are going and figure out how to row from Alaska to California. Where have our senses gone? He then started his political education at age 13, and now tries to help people communicate to the Native elders, because scientist, ecologist are all looking to 'incorporate' Traditional Native Knowledge. What a task!!! That was a long post, but I rarely write anything I'm so busy in school right now. So, I feel sad about all this science talk and skipping over the fact that we are in relation to other humans who suffer, and we have found a very deeply healing art to assist them to finding a much deeper healing than generally found in Western medicine. Rozz a wrote: > Hi Heiko > Thanks for the article quantum biology. To me this article is the ultimate in la la science paper. It builds up on a pyramid of totally unsubstantiated statements. > The part where he talks about referred pain shows the shallowness of the article. As a matter of fact we know much more about referred pain than just the idea that there is an error in the nervous system. Also he is wrong saying referred pain occurs only with disease. Referred pain can be stimulated under normal physiologic conditions, for example, every time we get Da Qi. Referred pain most of the time does not follow the TCM channels, except for small parts of them. If the Pacific J of Oriental Medicine is a peer reviewed j it does so poorly. > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Rozz Can you share more about what you are reading Thanks Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 and treatment machine which I found through google etc, I think they are expensive as there is only one in NZ. No harm in seeing if it helps ...when I find out where it is.I will let you know. >>>>>>> May be they are like his homeopathy imprinting equipment, ie not even hooked to the power source Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Hi Alon, Here is one article. They take some amount of time to read. Rozz wrote: > Rozz > Can you share more about what you are reading > Thanks > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Hi Alon, Here is one article. They take some amount of time to read. >>>>>> Rozz Hi there was no article attached thanks Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 will not accept attachments. If you would like to post something to the files section please do that. I believe it will automatically tell us something is there. doug , Rozz Lieght <Rusty7@g...> wrote: > > Hi Alon, > > Here is one article. They take some amount of time to read. > > Rozz > > wrote: > > Rozz > > Can you share more about what you are reading > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 will not accept attachments. If you would like to post something to the files section please do that. I believe it will automatically tell us something is there. >>> Why not just send it as email Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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