RE: ‰AŸ†�ŠŽÒˆ×áŸ�D—zŸ†�ŠŽÒˆ×‹¶, a little help?

[Guest guest]

>

>

> On Behalf Of Mark Schwartz

too much yang...so

> Kuang.....ah yes that was clear.....

>

> However then I started to look at some explanations from some chinese

> texts...and this is where things get muddled for me. My chinese is at the

> point where I can read a classical text like Jin Gui...which has

> relatively little grammar

 

I would not be fooled here. Classical Chinese is chalked full of grammar. Many

people say if you don't understand the grammar (of a classical Chinese passage)

then you don't understand the meaning. I agree with this. The grammar can be

very tricky especially if all that one has studied is modern Chinese.

 

(Understanding grammar) is essential with classical Chinese, because it is so

easy to misinterpret the passages because they are so terse and one can easily

think they know what it is saying. But reading the commentary can help. It is

interesting when one takes a formal class in Classical Chinese (if it is a good

one) you will spend hours and hours, weeks & weeks, just analyzing the grammar

of 4 character sets. If one reverses the verb / subject or recognizes a noun

incorrectly as a verb (etc etc) one can easily miss the meaning. It is very

easy to think you know what it means... Good luck though, I love reading through

the jingui stuff...

 

-Jason

 

 

and get most of the basic meaning (not the

> deeper...how things play out in clinic meaning). However I'm not yet at

> the level where i can easily look at an entire textbook with explanation

> in chinese with lots of modern grammar and get the whole story. If I were

> to really make the attempt....I could get some of the gist....but oh the

> time involved.to read a page....to just get the meaning of 12 whee bit

> characters.

>

> So I put it out to the group. Could someone whose chinese is more

> advanced take a look and give me an explanation in english.

>

> From the light green shanghai natl textbook fifth edition pg 123

> I can get: When the yin evil is too exuberant (i love wisemanese) then

> its dian, yang evil too exuberant then its kuang.

‰A٠ŠŽÒˆ×áŸÂD—

> z٠ŠŽÒˆ×‹¶ This yin qi and yang qi are referring to Zheng

Qi....it is

> said when a person's body yin qi is insufficient, then its easy for the

> evil to enter the yin so its dian, when yang qi is insufficient then its

> easy for the evil to enter the yang so its kuang. Thats why diankuang

> belongs excess but its root belongs to deficiency

>

>

> Please cut me some slack here on above chinglish transriteration..Jin

> Gui is the first book I am reading in Chinese.

>

>

> Greatly appreciative,

> Mark

>

>

>

>

> Personals

> Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.

> Lot's of someone's, actually. Personals

>

>

[Guest guest]

From some jingui commentary (DÇ’ng zhèng huá – 董正åŽæ¨è½¶ä¸»ç¼–.

(2001). 金匮è¦ç•¥é€šè§£. 中国西安: 三秦出版社.) it basically says

the two characters '癲' & '狂' are just swapped.

 

So basically it interprets things as:

 

When yin qi is debilitated there is the development of dian (withdrawal)

disease. When yang qi is debilitated there is a development of kuan (mania)

disease.

 

But as you say this is a point of contention. I only have 1 of my jingui

commentaries here at the house, but I am sure there are other explanations out

there. There is probably no right answer, hence the fun of studying classical

texts...

 

 

-Jason

 

>

>

> On Behalf Of Mark Schwartz

> Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:59 AM

>

> ‰A٠ŠŽÒˆ×áŸÂD—z٠ŠŽÒˆ×‹¶, a

little help?

>

> Gu Wen: got to love it. I have a question about the meaning of the 12

> character in bold below:

> ◆五è—風寒ç©èšç—…脈證并治第å一．

> This is chapter 11, section 12 of the JinGui

>

>

邪哭使魂塊ä¸å®‰è€…．血氣少也．血氣少者屬於心．心氣 & #34395;\

者．其人則ç•ï¼Žåˆç›®æ¬²çœ¼ï¼Žå¤¢é è¡Œ

> 而精神離散．魂魄妄行．陰氣衰者為癲．陽氣衰者為狂．

>

> From the only two english translations I know of in print....neither

> shall we say are up to Wiseman/Craig/Bob/Paul standard....

>

> " deterioration of yin qi leads to Dian and deterioration of yang qi to

> Kuang "

> " evanescence of the yin vital essence will lead to a case of insanity

> with emotional depression. Evanescense of the yang vital energy will

> result in mania "

>

> The second from the New World version pg 263 has a note from a Mr. Wu

> Qian... " ...this must be a copying mistake " ...it continues on to say the

> Neijing....but I think it should be Nanjing 20 (perhaps it was said in the

> neijing first....I havent read the neijing in chinese yet)

> ．é‡é™½è€…狂．é‡é™°è€…癲 When Yang is doubled/heavy/excess then Kuang

> When Yin is doubled/heavy/excess

> then Dian

>

> At first look 陰氣衰者為癲．陽氣衰者為狂: If there was a

copying mistake

> then it follows they reversed things....it should be

陽氣衰者為癲．陰氣衰者為

> ç‹‚......that would make it when yang qi decline/wanes then you have too

> much yin....so dian.

> And When Yin qi declines/wanes then you have too much yang...so

> Kuang.....ah yes that was clear.....

>

> However then I started to look at some explanations from some chinese

> texts...and this is where things get muddled for me. My chinese is at the

> point where I can read a classical text like Jin Gui...which has

> relatively little grammar and get most of the basic meaning (not the

> deeper...how things play out in clinic meaning). However I'm not yet at

> the level where i can easily look at an entire textbook with explanation

> in chinese with lots of modern grammar and get the whole story. If I were

> to really make the attempt....I could get some of the gist....but oh the

> time involved.to read a page....to just get the meaning of 12 whee bit

> characters.

>

> So I put it out to the group. Could someone whose chinese is more

> advanced take a look and give me an explanation in english.

>

> From the light green shanghai natl textbook fifth edition pg 123

> I can get: When the yin evil is too exuberant (i love wisemanese) then

> its dian, yang evil too exuberant then its kuang.

陰氣衰者為癲．陽氣衰者為狂

> This yin qi and yang qi are referring to Zheng Qi....it is said when a

> person's body yin qi is insufficient, then its easy for the evil to enter

> the yin so its dian, when yang qi is insufficient then its easy for the

> evil to enter the yang so its kuang. Thats why diankuang belongs excess

> but its root belongs to deficiency

>