heavy metal contamination of chinese soil

[Guest guest]

http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

 

 

something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

suggests they are highly contaminated. In fact, one proposed

solution to the soil contamination is to grow certain plants that are

know to have high uptake rates of heavy metals. China's

industrialization has increased dramatically in the past decade.

They burn many times more coal than they used to and cars have

largely replaced bicycles as the main form of transportation on most

city streets. When many of us got into this field, even though we

all knew China was a very polluted country, the problem has grown

exponentially. With all due respect to the few herbs on the AMerican

market that are actually tested, we must realize that such herbs are

not being tested by independent outsiders, but rather by the very

vested interests who sell those herbs. Many of you would not trust

such a regulatory scheme if it involved your local water or soil, yet

have no trouble dispensing huge amounts of herbs to their patients

for profit. This is just one more reason, people should be very

concerned about any longterm use of chinese herbs. In addition,

issues of species decimation is now also becoming a reality,

especially in the aftermath of SARS and the foremath of Avian flu.

Things have changed and those changes will only accelerate and worsen

as China moves hellbent down its capitalist growth path. Ethical

herbalists and those concerned solely about toxicity issues now must

seriously consider these problems. It is quite a dilemma as the only

alternative is to grow the herbs organically somewhere else. In the

US, this would make the cost to your patients prohibitive, so the

only option is to find some as yet uncontaminated third world

farming country with cheap labor and set up chinese herb farms.

Unfortunately many chinese herbs are wildcrafted and we don't even

know how to cultivate them. I never thought I would write these

words, but I think the only viable solution is to begin a concerted

effort to replace the use of chinese herbs with substitute species

from this country and other parts of the planet. , your

day may be here!

 

here is the link to the complete google search I did. this search

was of scholarly journals, not scandalmongering websites, BTW

 

 

 

Web/Online Coordinator

Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

Prescott College

http://www.prescott.edu

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Todd

Unfortunately that is also correct for powders. As long as Japan is not

demanding heavy metal testing it is not going to be done on every batch.

Currently they only do spot checks

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

-

cha

Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:50 PM

heavy metal contamination of chinese soil

 

 

 

http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

 

 

something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

suggests they are highly contaminated. In fact, one proposed

solution to the soil contamination is to grow certain plants that are

know to have high uptake rates of heavy metals. China's

industrialization has increased dramatically in the past decade.

They burn many times more coal than they used to and cars have

largely replaced bicycles as the main form of transportation on most

city streets. When many of us got into this field, even though we

all knew China was a very polluted country, the problem has grown

exponentially. With all due respect to the few herbs on the AMerican

market that are actually tested, we must realize that such herbs are

not being tested by independent outsiders, but rather by the very

vested interests who sell those herbs. Many of you would not trust

such a regulatory scheme if it involved your local water or soil, yet

have no trouble dispensing huge amounts of herbs to their patients

for profit. This is just one more reason, people should be very

concerned about any longterm use of chinese herbs. In addition,

issues of species decimation is now also becoming a reality,

especially in the aftermath of SARS and the foremath of Avian flu.

Things have changed and those changes will only accelerate and worsen

as China moves hellbent down its capitalist growth path. Ethical

herbalists and those concerned solely about toxicity issues now must

seriously consider these problems. It is quite a dilemma as the only

alternative is to grow the herbs organically somewhere else. In the

US, this would make the cost to your patients prohibitive, so the

only option is to find some as yet uncontaminated third world

farming country with cheap labor and set up chinese herb farms.

Unfortunately many chinese herbs are wildcrafted and we don't even

know how to cultivate them. I never thought I would write these

words, but I think the only viable solution is to begin a concerted

effort to replace the use of chinese herbs with substitute species

from this country and other parts of the planet. , your

day may be here!

 

here is the link to the complete google search I did. this search

was of scholarly journals, not scandalmongering websites, BTW

 

Web/Online Coordinator

Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

Prescott College

http://www.prescott.edu

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, wrote:

>

>

> http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

> home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

> 29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

>

>

> something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

> heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

> importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

> mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

> However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

> suggests they are highly contaminated.

 

Sinecura, probably the largest granule importer in Europe (located in

Belgium) buys their granules from KPC, Taiwan. Sinecura has EVERY

batch of herbs independently tested by the University of Brussels.

When a certain batch has too high levels of herbicides, heavy metal

contamination or molding, the whole batch is destroyed immediately

(also independently) and a report is given to KPC. They then send

another batch of the same herb (normally.)

In Sinecura's experience, it is not true that heavy metal

contamination is that widespread. Du zhong has had incredibly high

levels of lead contamination, lead which apparently makes the tree

grow faster. But that was some years ago. It is only now and then that

the herbs are unsafe to use according to EU guidelines.

Unfortunately, Sinecura is Belgium's only importer that does

independent testing for their herbs. It seems that the other importers

take it for granted that their herbs are not polluted. Testing herbs

is very expensive, and most importers value their profits more than

public safety, I guess.

[Guest guest]

On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:50 PM, wrote:

 

>

> http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

> home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

> 29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

>

 

 

You seem technically savvy and I'd like to look at the links you

post. However cutting and pasting 3 lines together is a pain in the

ass. May I kindly suggest using www.tinyurl.com or www.snipurl.com to

make shorter links?

 

(They create a permanent short URL supposedly to be viewed long after

nanotechnology takes hold and Ray Kurzweil's 250th birthday.)

 

best regards,

george

[Guest guest]

I was wondering when this topic would come up. It has gotten increasingly more

difficult for me to prescribe chinese herbs over the years due to this very

reason. It did not help to have spent a year in China, to have seen the chinese

carrying large buckets of human waste to their fields, to fertilize the crops,

that would end up in homes, restaurants, etc.

I too have thought that growing similar species here in Canada/Us must be one

of the alternatives.

For those who have enough space to grow something, perhaps we could start a

large " Share Crop Exchange " . Each person could focus on the in's and out's of

cultivating and harvesting their particular chosen herb. The hardest of course

would be the roots, but as we know several of the chinese herbs are common

perenial shrubs, flowers, weeds, shells...and would be much easier to grow.

Steven Foster would be a great source of information. The title of his book

escapes me right now.

Anyone have any interest in this concept?

 

best regards,

Marjorie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wa

Quoting <:

 

>

> http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

> home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

> 29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

>

>

> something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

> heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

> importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

> mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

> However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

> suggests they are highly contaminated. In fact, one proposed

> solution to the soil contamination is to grow certain plants that are

> know to have high uptake rates of heavy metals. China's

> industrialization has increased dramatically in the past decade.

> They burn many times more coal than they used to and cars have

> largely replaced bicycles as the main form of transportation on most

> city streets. When many of us got into this field, even though we

> all knew China was a very polluted country, the problem has grown

> exponentially. With all due respect to the few herbs on the AMerican

> market that are actually tested, we must realize that such herbs are

> not being tested by independent outsiders, but rather by the very

> vested interests who sell those herbs. Many of you would not trust

> such a regulatory scheme if it involved your local water or soil, yet

> have no trouble dispensing huge amounts of herbs to their patients

> for profit. This is just one more reason, people should be very

> concerned about any longterm use of chinese herbs. In addition,

> issues of species decimation is now also becoming a reality,

> especially in the aftermath of SARS and the foremath of Avian flu.

> Things have changed and those changes will only accelerate and worsen

> as China moves hellbent down its capitalist growth path. Ethical

> herbalists and those concerned solely about toxicity issues now must

> seriously consider these problems. It is quite a dilemma as the only

> alternative is to grow the herbs organically somewhere else. In the

> US, this would make the cost to your patients prohibitive, so the

> only option is to find some as yet uncontaminated third world

> farming country with cheap labor and set up chinese herb farms.

> Unfortunately many chinese herbs are wildcrafted and we don't even

> know how to cultivate them. I never thought I would write these

> words, but I think the only viable solution is to begin a concerted

> effort to replace the use of chinese herbs with substitute species

> from this country and other parts of the planet. , your

> day may be here!

>

> here is the link to the complete google search I did. this search

> was of scholarly journals, not scandalmongering websites, BTW

>

>

>

> Web/Online Coordinator

> Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

> Prescott College

> http://www.prescott.edu

>

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

Hey folks,

 

There's a serious concern that's being overlooked in the conversation about

growng Chinese herbs in the North American continent; they're not native to

here. While that may not be a problem in terms of actually growing the plants,

it can become a huge problem in the future, should these plants " naturalize " and

become invasive species. As invasive species claim space (invade) ecosystems

currently occupied by native species, these natives get crowded out, become

endangered, and risk extinction. Every ecosystem in the U.S. has problems with

invasive species and endangered native species. Many of our ancestors from

Europe and even China brought their favorite flowers, trees and food crops with

them as seeds; some airborne seeds stowed away on ships and still others got

mixed in bags of grain seed, to make their way here and spread where they found

hospitable conditions.

 

My first degree is in Environmental Science and Land Use Planning. My

interest in that discipline was, and still is, regional protection of wildlands

for all native species of wildlife. As large tracts of unspoiled wilderness

become increasingly rare, the problem of invasive species becomes all the more

serious; the smaller size of tracts of wilderness make them all the more prone

to complete infiltration by non-native species, at the cost of decimation of

local endemic species. A secondary level of this problem is that eradication of

native species reduces their availability as a food source for the animals which

depend upon them. All life forms are interdependent. We cannot exterminate one

and expect there will not be a ripple effect up the food chain; in all

likelihood, animals dependent on these food sources will either die out or

attempt to relocate outside of their native region (migrate), often into

abutting areas which are populated with people who do not tolerate

their presence, regard them as pests, and seek to eradicate them.

 

I agree that heavy metals contamination of herbs is also a serious problem

which demands our careful consideration. However, we need to take care also to

consider what problems we may be creating in the future, by looking for quick

and " inexpensive " solutions in the present. The cost may indeed be greater than

we can imagine.

 

Please accept my humble apologies if this is too off-topic. It seem integral

to the discussion, in my mind.

 

Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

Cottonwood, AZ 86326

(928) 274-1373

 

mdavid wrote:

I was wondering when this topic would come up. It has gotten increasingly more

difficult for me to prescribe chinese herbs over the years due to this very

reason. It did not help to have spent a year in China, to have seen the chinese

carrying large buckets of human waste to their fields, to fertilize the crops,

that would end up in homes, restaurants, etc.

I too have thought that growing similar species here in Canada/Us must be one

of the alternatives.

For those who have enough space to grow something, perhaps we could start a

large " Share Crop Exchange " . Each person could focus on the in's and out's of

cultivating and harvesting their particular chosen herb. The hardest of course

would be the roots, but as we know several of the chinese herbs are common

perenial shrubs, flowers, weeds, shells...and would be much easier to grow.

Steven Foster would be a great source of information. The title of his book

escapes me right now.

Anyone have any interest in this concept?

 

best regards,

Marjorie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wa

Quoting <:

 

>

> http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

> home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

> 29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

>

>

> something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

> heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

> importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

> mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

> However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

> suggests they are highly contaminated. In fact, one proposed

> solution to the soil contamination is to grow certain plants that are

> know to have high uptake rates of heavy metals. China's

> industrialization has increased dramatically in the past decade.

> They burn many times more coal than they used to and cars have

> largely replaced bicycles as the main form of transportation on most

> city streets. When many of us got into this field, even though we

> all knew China was a very polluted country, the problem has grown

> exponentially. With all due respect to the few herbs on the AMerican

> market that are actually tested, we must realize that such herbs are

> not being tested by independent outsiders, but rather by the very

> vested interests who sell those herbs. Many of you would not trust

> such a regulatory scheme if it involved your local water or soil, yet

> have no trouble dispensing huge amounts of herbs to their patients

> for profit. This is just one more reason, people should be very

> concerned about any longterm use of chinese herbs. In addition,

> issues of species decimation is now also becoming a reality,

> especially in the aftermath of SARS and the foremath of Avian flu.

> Things have changed and those changes will only accelerate and worsen

> as China moves hellbent down its capitalist growth path. Ethical

> herbalists and those concerned solely about toxicity issues now must

> seriously consider these problems. It is quite a dilemma as the only

> alternative is to grow the herbs organically somewhere else. In the

> US, this would make the cost to your patients prohibitive, so the

> only option is to find some as yet uncontaminated third world

> farming country with cheap labor and set up chinese herb farms.

> Unfortunately many chinese herbs are wildcrafted and we don't even

> know how to cultivate them. I never thought I would write these

> words, but I think the only viable solution is to begin a concerted

> effort to replace the use of chinese herbs with substitute species

> from this country and other parts of the planet. , your

> day may be here!

>

> here is the link to the complete google search I did. this search

> was of scholarly journals, not scandalmongering websites, BTW

>

>

>

> Web/Online Coordinator

> Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

> Prescott College

> http://www.prescott.edu

>

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

When extracts are made from Chinese herbs, the heavy metals can be

" washed out " of them during the processing. Blue Poppy Herbs tests

every batch of every formula once in China and once in the U.S. at an

FDA-approved lab. We always find that the presence of heavy metals is

extremely low and well within allowable limits. Anyone can ask Blue

Poppy for copies of these lab reports.

 

On another issue, there is no guarantee that Chinese herbs gorwn in

North American will have the same medicinal effects or potencies.

Maybe yes, maybe no. As we all know, Chinese herbs grown in different

parts of China have different medicinal properties. In the GAP (good

aggriculture protocols) being implemented in China for the commerical

growing of medicinal herbs, standards for environmental conditions,

soil composition, irrigation, and fertilizers are all specified in

some detail.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

Bob Flaws wrote:

 

> When extracts are made from Chinese herbs, the heavy metals can be

> " washed out " of them during the processing.

 

 

For clarification, can I assume here that what is being referred to here is

specifically a CO2 type of extraction process?

 

I'd be interested in being informed of any good books on making chinese

herbal extracts as I am interested in making my own (nonindustrial methods),

if anyone knows of any.

 

Respectfully,

Greg Campbell

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Bob Flaws "

<pemachophel2001> wrote:

>

> When extracts are made from Chinese herbs, the heavy metals can be

> " washed out " of them during the processing. Blue Poppy Herbs tests

> every batch of every formula once in China and once in the U.S. at an

> FDA-approved lab. We always find that the presence of heavy metals is

> extremely low and well within allowable limits.

 

Bob, do you know how the heavy metals are being " washed out " ? I was

told that when concentrating the decoction, everything is being

concentrated, including heavy metals, pesticides etc. That is also the

reason why testing crude herbs does not give truly valuable

information when the end product will be granules. The heavy metal

concentration can change due to the production process. Only testing

the end-product (the concentrated and stabilized granule) shows the

real end-concentration of heavy metals, pesticides etc.

Tom.

[Guest guest]

I think it may be wise to consider that many so-called " Chinese

herbs " have similar species or 'family members' growing here in the

Americas, and have at least similar properties. Over time, perhaps,

we can use these as medicines. The medicines I pick in the wild have

obvious potency, and it would be a shame not to begin to use and

understand them. I remember picking peppermint from a mountain

stream in Taos last summer, and the students couldn't believe the

potency of the mint, spreading through the body.

 

I also think that humanity is part of nature, and that the

spreading of species around the world is not always a bad thing.

There are always tradeoffs and choices to be made in such things as

environmental management. We are the stewards of the planet, but

that doesn't mean that we shouldn't grow herbs from China locally. I

think perhaps you overstate the risks.

 

 

On Nov 29, 2005, at 8:08 AM, wrote:

 

> Hey folks,

>

> There's a serious concern that's being overlooked in the

> conversation about growng Chinese herbs in the North American

> continent; they're not native to here. While that may not be a

> problem in terms of actually growing the plants, it can become a

> huge problem in the future, should these plants " naturalize " and

> become invasive species. As invasive species claim space (invade)

> ecosystems currently occupied by native species, these natives get

> crowded out, become endangered, and risk extinction. Every

> ecosystem in the U.S. has problems with invasive species and

> endangered native species. Many of our ancestors from Europe and

> even China brought their favorite flowers, trees and food crops

> with them as seeds; some airborne seeds stowed away on ships and

> still others got mixed in bags of grain seed, to make their way

> here and spread where they found hospitable conditions.

>

> My first degree is in Environmental Science and Land Use

> Planning. My interest in that discipline was, and still is,

> regional protection of wildlands for all native species of

> wildlife. As large tracts of unspoiled wilderness become

> increasingly rare, the problem of invasive species becomes all the

> more serious; the smaller size of tracts of wilderness make them

> all the more prone to complete infiltration by non-native species,

> at the cost of decimation of local endemic species. A secondary

> level of this problem is that eradication of native species reduces

> their availability as a food source for the animals which depend

> upon them. All life forms are interdependent. We cannot

> exterminate one and expect there will not be a ripple effect up the

> food chain; in all likelihood, animals dependent on these food

> sources will either die out or attempt to relocate outside of their

> native region (migrate), often into abutting areas which are

> populated with people who do not tolerate

> their presence, regard them as pests, and seek to eradicate them.

>

> I agree that heavy metals contamination of herbs is also a

> serious problem which demands our careful consideration. However,

> we need to take care also to consider what problems we may be

> creating in the future, by looking for quick and " inexpensive "

> solutions in the present. The cost may indeed be greater than we

> can imagine.

>

> Please accept my humble apologies if this is too off-topic. It

> seem integral to the discussion, in my mind.

>

>

> Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

> 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

> Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> (928) 274-1373

>

> mdavid wrote:

> I was wondering when this topic would come up. It has gotten

> increasingly more

> difficult for me to prescribe chinese herbs over the years due to

> this very

> reason. It did not help to have spent a year in China, to have seen

> the chinese

> carrying large buckets of human waste to their fields, to fertilize

> the crops,

> that would end up in homes, restaurants, etc.

> I too have thought that growing similar species here in Canada/Us

> must be one

> of the alternatives.

> For those who have enough space to grow something, perhaps we could

> start a

> large " Share Crop Exchange " . Each person could focus on the in's

> and out's of

> cultivating and harvesting their particular chosen herb. The

> hardest of course

> would be the roots, but as we know several of the chinese herbs are

> common

> perenial shrubs, flowers, weeds, shells...and would be much easier

> to grow.

> Steven Foster would be a great source of information. The title of

> his book

> escapes me right now.

> Anyone have any interest in this concept?

>

> best regards,

> Marjorie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

I wa

> Quoting <:

>

>>

>> http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

>> home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

>> 29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

>>

>>

>> something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

>> heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

>> importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

>> mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

>> However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

>> suggests they are highly contaminated. In fact, one proposed

>> solution to the soil contamination is to grow certain plants that are

>> know to have high uptake rates of heavy metals. China's

>> industrialization has increased dramatically in the past decade.

>> They burn many times more coal than they used to and cars have

>> largely replaced bicycles as the main form of transportation on most

>> city streets. When many of us got into this field, even though we

>> all knew China was a very polluted country, the problem has grown

>> exponentially. With all due respect to the few herbs on the AMerican

>> market that are actually tested, we must realize that such herbs are

>> not being tested by independent outsiders, but rather by the very

>> vested interests who sell those herbs. Many of you would not trust

>> such a regulatory scheme if it involved your local water or soil, yet

>> have no trouble dispensing huge amounts of herbs to their patients

>> for profit. This is just one more reason, people should be very

>> concerned about any longterm use of chinese herbs. In addition,

>> issues of species decimation is now also becoming a reality,

>> especially in the aftermath of SARS and the foremath of Avian flu.

>> Things have changed and those changes will only accelerate and worsen

>> as China moves hellbent down its capitalist growth path. Ethical

>> herbalists and those concerned solely about toxicity issues now must

>> seriously consider these problems. It is quite a dilemma as the only

>> alternative is to grow the herbs organically somewhere else. In the

>> US, this would make the cost to your patients prohibitive, so the

>> only option is to find some as yet uncontaminated third world

>> farming country with cheap labor and set up chinese herb farms.

>> Unfortunately many chinese herbs are wildcrafted and we don't even

>> know how to cultivate them. I never thought I would write these

>> words, but I think the only viable solution is to begin a concerted

>> effort to replace the use of chinese herbs with substitute species

>> from this country and other parts of the planet. , your

>> day may be here!

>>

>> here is the link to the complete google search I did. this search

>> was of scholarly journals, not scandalmongering websites, BTW

>>

>>

>>

>> Web/Online Coordinator

>> Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

>> Prescott College

>> http://www.prescott.edu

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Tom,

 

Sorry, I don't know the exact process. What I do know is that we get

charged extra for this service. I also know that our meds test

extremely low (to non-detectable) in terms of heavy metals. So it

seems to me we're getting our money's worth. Obviously, whatever is

happening before the product is concentrated, in other words, while

the material is still all in solution.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

Obviously, whatever is

happening before the product is concentrated, in other words, while

the material is still all in solution.

 

Bob

 

 

Huh?

 

 

----------

 

 

 

Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release 11/30/05

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

From what I was told, herbal extracts (specifically liquid

extracts, but I would assume granules and other concentrates as well)

have a lower heavy metal content because heavy metals are strongly

bound to the plant matrix. When extracting, the heavy metals don't

readily separate from the plant as easily as other constituents.

Whereas ground herb tablets would have higher levels because the

plant material (celluose, fibers, metals...) makes up a portion of

the pill.

 

-Danny

 

> ... when concentrating the decoction, everything is being

> concentrated, including heavy metals, pesticides etc. That is also the

> reason why testing crude herbs does not give truly valuable

> information when the end product will be granules. The heavy metal

> concentration can change due to the production process. Only testing

> the end-product (the concentrated and stabilized granule) shows the

> real end-concentration of heavy metals, pesticides etc.

> Tom.

 

[Guest guest]

I agree that is it wise to explore use of native plants that are related to

Asian medicinals for similarities and cross-usage. There are indeed potent

plants everywhere that have been used for healing purposes by indigenous peoples

around the globe. However, I don't think my case is overstated. Habitat

destruction takes many forms: overcrowding and encroachment by human development

is one form; invasive plant species is another, though its effects usually take

longer to become noticeable.

 

 

<zrosenbe wrote:

I think it may be wise to consider that many so-called " Chinese

herbs " have similar species or 'family members' growing here in the

Americas, and have at least similar properties. Over time, perhaps,

we can use these as medicines. The medicines I pick in the wild have

obvious potency, and it would be a shame not to begin to use and

understand them. I remember picking peppermint from a mountain

stream in Taos last summer, and the students couldn't believe the

potency of the mint, spreading through the body.

 

I also think that humanity is part of nature, and that the

spreading of species around the world is not always a bad thing.

There are always tradeoffs and choices to be made in such things as

environmental management. We are the stewards of the planet, but

that doesn't mean that we shouldn't grow herbs from China locally. I

think perhaps you overstate the risks.

 

 

On Nov 29, 2005, at 8:08 AM, wrote:

 

> Hey folks,

>

> There's a serious concern that's being overlooked in the

> conversation about growng Chinese herbs in the North American

> continent; they're not native to here. While that may not be a

> problem in terms of actually growing the plants, it can become a

> huge problem in the future, should these plants " naturalize " and

> become invasive species. As invasive species claim space (invade)

> ecosystems currently occupied by native species, these natives get

> crowded out, become endangered, and risk extinction. Every

> ecosystem in the U.S. has problems with invasive species and

> endangered native species. Many of our ancestors from Europe and

> even China brought their favorite flowers, trees and food crops

> with them as seeds; some airborne seeds stowed away on ships and

> still others got mixed in bags of grain seed, to make their way

> here and spread where they found hospitable conditions.

>

> My first degree is in Environmental Science and Land Use

> Planning. My interest in that discipline was, and still is,

> regional protection of wildlands for all native species of

> wildlife. As large tracts of unspoiled wilderness become

> increasingly rare, the problem of invasive species becomes all the

> more serious; the smaller size of tracts of wilderness make them

> all the more prone to complete infiltration by non-native species,

> at the cost of decimation of local endemic species. A secondary

> level of this problem is that eradication of native species reduces

> their availability as a food source for the animals which depend

> upon them. All life forms are interdependent. We cannot

> exterminate one and expect there will not be a ripple effect up the

> food chain; in all likelihood, animals dependent on these food

> sources will either die out or attempt to relocate outside of their

> native region (migrate), often into abutting areas which are

> populated with people who do not tolerate

> their presence, regard them as pests, and seek to eradicate them.

>

> I agree that heavy metals contamination of herbs is also a

> serious problem which demands our careful consideration. However,

> we need to take care also to consider what problems we may be

> creating in the future, by looking for quick and " inexpensive "

> solutions in the present. The cost may indeed be greater than we

> can imagine.

>

> Please accept my humble apologies if this is too off-topic. It

> seem integral to the discussion, in my mind.

>

>

> Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

> 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

> Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> (928) 274-1373

>

> mdavid wrote:

> I was wondering when this topic would come up. It has gotten

> increasingly more

> difficult for me to prescribe chinese herbs over the years due to

> this very

> reason. It did not help to have spent a year in China, to have seen

> the chinese

> carrying large buckets of human waste to their fields, to fertilize

> the crops,

> that would end up in homes, restaurants, etc.

> I too have thought that growing similar species here in Canada/Us

> must be one

> of the alternatives.

> For those who have enough space to grow something, perhaps we could

> start a

> large " Share Crop Exchange " . Each person could focus on the in's

> and out's of

> cultivating and harvesting their particular chosen herb. The

> hardest of course

> would be the roots, but as we know several of the chinese herbs are

> common

> perenial shrubs, flowers, weeds, shells...and would be much easier

> to grow.

> Steven Foster would be a great source of information. The title of

> his book

> escapes me right now.

> Anyone have any interest in this concept?

>

> best regards,

> Marjorie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

I wa

> Quoting <:

>

>>

>> http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

>> home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

>> 29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

>>

>>

>> something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

>> heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

>> importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

>> mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

>> However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

>> suggests they are highly contaminated. In fact, one proposed

>> solution to the soil contamination is to grow certain plants that are

>> know to have high uptake rates of heavy metals. China's

>> industrialization has increased dramatically in the past decade.

>> They burn many times more coal than they used to and cars have

>> largely replaced bicycles as the main form of transportation on most

>> city streets. When many of us got into this field, even though we

>> all knew China was a very polluted country, the problem has grown

>> exponentially. With all due respect to the few herbs on the AMerican

>> market that are actually tested, we must realize that such herbs are

>> not being tested by independent outsiders, but rather by the very

>> vested interests who sell those herbs. Many of you would not trust

>> such a regulatory scheme if it involved your local water or soil, yet

>> have no trouble dispensing huge amounts of herbs to their patients

>> for profit. This is just one more reason, people should be very

>> concerned about any longterm use of chinese herbs. In addition,

>> issues of species decimation is now also becoming a reality,

>> especially in the aftermath of SARS and the foremath of Avian flu.

>> Things have changed and those changes will only accelerate and worsen

>> as China moves hellbent down its capitalist growth path. Ethical

>> herbalists and those concerned solely about toxicity issues now must

>> seriously consider these problems. It is quite a dilemma as the only

>> alternative is to grow the herbs organically somewhere else. In the

>> US, this would make the cost to your patients prohibitive, so the

>> only option is to find some as yet uncontaminated third world

>> farming country with cheap labor and set up chinese herb farms.

>> Unfortunately many chinese herbs are wildcrafted and we don't even

>> know how to cultivate them. I never thought I would write these

>> words, but I think the only viable solution is to begin a concerted

>> effort to replace the use of chinese herbs with substitute species

>> from this country and other parts of the planet. , your

>> day may be here!

>>

>> here is the link to the complete google search I did. this search

>> was of scholarly journals, not scandalmongering websites, BTW

>>

>>

>>

>> Web/Online Coordinator

>> Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

>> Prescott College

>> http://www.prescott.edu

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Andrea and all,

 

I was as surprised as any to find that several U.S. farmers are growing Chinese

herbs, and OM practitioners are buying them. So I was anxious to see and touch

the process, even though, as a city dweller, I have not much land for " growing

my own " , as we used to say. High Falls Gardens is a leader in this area and,

working with other growers in the Medicinal Herb Consortium, they've put a lot

of thought into issues such as medicinal equivalency, invasiveness, methods of

cultivation. I , along with 5 others, was an intern at the HFG farm this year,

and helped to plant and harvest Zhi Mu, Gan Cao, Yi Mu Cao, Jie Geng, Gou Qi Zi

and others. You can read about it at:

http://nofany.org/projects/medicinalherbsfallupdate.pdf

 

And even though we all read more than we have eyeball juice for, it is still

quite possible not to be aware of the nature and extent of these efforts already

being made. That's why I enter this post, even though I may have already

before. If you have ever gardened yourself, you might want to activate that

Johnny Appleseed fantasy and get a few seeds in. Jean Giblette, Joe Hollis or

Robert Newman would, being country folk, be quite willing to give simple

straightforward advice on how to start your batch. If you're still at the

fantasy level, why don't you drive your hybrid down to the nearest video

store(unless, of course, you live in a city, in which case you can just walk;-)

and rent the animated feature, " The Man Who Planted Trees " . That is really

guaranteed to get your eyeball juices up.

 

all best,

Ann

 

 

I agree that is it wise to explore use of native plants that are related to

Asian medicinals for similarities and cross-usage. There are indeed potent

plants everywhere that have been used for healing purposes by indigenous peoples

around the globe. However, I don't think my case is overstated. Habitat

destruction takes many forms: overcrowding and encroachment by human development

is one form; invasive plant species is another, though its effects usually take

longer to become noticeable.

 

 

<zrosenbe wrote:

I think it may be wise to consider that many so-called " Chinese

herbs " have similar species or 'family members' growing here in the

Americas, and have at least similar properties. Over time, perhaps,

we can use these as medicines. The medicines I pick in the wild have

obvious potency, and it would be a shame not to begin to use and

understand them. I remember picking peppermint from a mountain

stream in Taos last summer, and the students couldn't believe the

potency of the mint, spreading through the body.

 

I also think that humanity is part of nature, and that the

spreading of species around the world is not always a bad thing.

There are always tradeoffs and choices to be made in such things as

environmental management. We are the stewards of the planet, but

that doesn't mean that we shouldn't grow herbs from China locally. I

think perhaps you overstate the risks.

 

On Nov 29, 2005, at 8:08 AM, wrote:

 

> Hey folks,

>

> There's a serious concern that's being overlooked in the

> conversation about growng Chinese herbs in the North American

> continent; they're not native to here. While that may not be a

> problem in terms of actually growing the plants, it can become a

> huge problem in the future, should these plants " naturalize " and

> become invasive species. As invasive species claim space (invade)

> ecosystems currently occupied by native species, these natives get

> crowded out, become endangered, and risk extinction. Every

> ecosystem in the U.S. has problems with invasive species and

> endangered native species. Many of our ancestors from Europe and

> even China brought their favorite flowers, trees and food crops

> with them as seeds; some airborne seeds stowed away on ships and

> still others got mixed in bags of grain seed, to make their way

> here and spread where they found hospitable conditions.

>

> My first degree is in Environmental Science and Land Use

> Planning. My interest in that discipline was, and still is,

> regional protection of wildlands for all native species of

> wildlife. As large tracts of unspoiled wilderness become

> increasingly rare, the problem of invasive species becomes all the

> more serious; the smaller size of tracts of wilderness make them

> all the more prone to complete infiltration by non-native species,

> at the cost of decimation of local endemic species. A secondary

> level of this problem is that eradication of native species reduces

> their availability as a food source for the animals which depend

> upon them. All life forms are interdependent. We cannot

> exterminate one and expect there will not be a ripple effect up the

> food chain; in all likelihood, animals dependent on these food

> sources will either die out or attempt to relocate outside of their

> native region (migrate), often into abutting areas which are

> populated with people who do not tolerate

> their presence, regard them as pests, and seek to eradicate them.

>

> I agree that heavy metals contamination of herbs is also a

> serious problem which demands our careful consideration. However,

> we need to take care also to consider what problems we may be

> creating in the future, by looking for quick and " inexpensive "

> solutions in the present. The cost may indeed be greater than we

> can imagine.

>

> Please accept my humble apologies if this is too off-topic. It

> seem integral to the discussion, in my mind.

>

>

> Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

> 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

> Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> (928) 274-1373

>

> mdavid wrote:

> I was wondering when this topic would come up. It has gotten

> increasingly more

> difficult for me to prescribe chinese herbs over the years due to

> this very

> reason. It did not help to have spent a year in China, to have seen

> the chinese

> carrying large buckets of human waste to their fields, to fertilize

> the crops,

> that would end up in homes, restaurants, etc.

> I too have thought that growing similar species here in Canada/Us

> must be one

> of the alternatives.

> For those who have enough space to grow something, perhaps we could

> start a

> large " Share Crop Exchange " . Each person could focus on the in's

> and out's of

> cultivating and harvesting their particular chosen herb. The

> hardest of course

> would be the roots, but as we know several of the chinese herbs are

> common

> perenial shrubs, flowers, weeds, shells...and would be much easier

> to grow.

> Steven Foster would be a great source of information. The title of

> his book

> escapes me right now.

> Anyone have any interest in this concept?

>

> best regards,

> Marjorie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I wa

> Quoting <:

>

>>

>> http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

>> home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

>> 29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

>>

>>

>> something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

>> heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

>> importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

>> mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

>> However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

>> suggests they are highly contaminated. In fact, one proposed

>> solution to the soil contamination is to grow certain plants that are

>> know to have high uptake rates of heavy metals. China's

>> industrialization has increased dramatically in the past decade.

>> They burn many times more coal than they used to and cars have

>> largely replaced bicycles as the main form of transportation on most

>> city streets. When many of us got into this field, even though we

>> all knew China was a very polluted country, the problem has grown

>> exponentially. With all due respect to the few herbs on the AMerican

>> market that are actually tested, we must realize that such herbs are

>> not being tested by independent outsiders, but rather by the very

>> vested interests who sell those herbs. Many of you would not trust

>> such a regulatory scheme if it involved your local water or soil, yet

>> have no trouble dispensing huge amounts of herbs to their patients

>> for profit. This is just one more reason, people should be very

>> concerned about any longterm use of chinese herbs. In addition,

>> issues of species decimation is now also becoming a reality,

>> especially in the aftermath of SARS and the foremath of Avian flu.

>> Things have changed and those changes will only accelerate and worsen

>> as China moves hellbent down its capitalist growth path. Ethical

>> herbalists and those concerned solely about toxicity issues now must

>> seriously consider these problems. It is quite a dilemma as the only

>> alternative is to grow the herbs organically somewhere else. In the

>> US, this would make the cost to your patients prohibitive, so the

>> only option is to find some as yet uncontaminated third world

>> farming country with cheap labor and set up chinese herb farms.

>> Unfortunately many chinese herbs are wildcrafted and we don't even

>> know how to cultivate them. I never thought I would write these

>> words, but I think the only viable solution is to begin a concerted

>> effort to replace the use of chinese herbs with substitute species

>> from this country and other parts of the planet. , your

>> day may be here!

>>

>> here is the link to the complete google search I did. this search

>> was of scholarly journals, not scandalmongering websites, BTW

>>

>>

>>

>> Web/Online Coordinator

>> Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

>> Prescott College

>> http://www.prescott.edu

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I got a few seeds from Robert Newman and managed to grow a little Chai

Hu plant pretty easily. However I can see that my own liver qi

constraint would take more than a few weeds in a pot.

 

Warning: there is a new book called something like Rhino Horns and

Tiger Bones about how TCM is causing the extinction of these animals.

I say warning because the review I read seems to blame the whole field

for the greed of a few.

doug

 

 

 

 

, <snakeoil.works@m...> wrote:

>

> Andrea and all,

>

> I was as surprised as any to find that several U.S. farmers are

growing Chinese herbs, and OM practitioners are buying them. So I was

anxious to see and touch the process, even though, as a city dweller,

I have not much land for " growing my own " , as we used to say. High

Falls Gardens is a leader in this area and, working with other growers

in the Medicinal Herb Consortium, they've put a lot of thought into

issues such as medicinal equivalency, invasiveness, methods of

cultivation. I , along with 5 others, was an intern at the HFG farm

this year, and helped to plant and harvest Zhi Mu, Gan Cao, Yi Mu Cao,

Jie Geng, Gou Qi Zi and others. You can read about it at:

http://nofany.org/projects/medicinalherbsfallupdate.pdf

>

> And even though we all read more than we have eyeball juice for, it

is still quite possible not to be aware of the nature and extent of

these efforts already being made. That's why I enter this post, even

though I may have already before. If you have ever gardened yourself,

you might want to activate that Johnny Appleseed fantasy and get a

few seeds in. Jean Giblette, Joe Hollis or Robert Newman would, being

country folk, be quite willing to give simple straightforward advice

on how to start your batch. If you're still at the fantasy level, why

don't you drive your hybrid down to the nearest video store(unless, of

course, you live in a city, in which case you can just walk;-) and

rent the animated feature, " The Man Who Planted Trees " . That is really

guaranteed to get your eyeball juices up.

>

> all best,

> Ann

>

>

> I agree that is it wise to explore use of native plants that are

related to Asian medicinals for similarities and cross-usage. There

are indeed potent plants everywhere that have been used for healing

purposes by indigenous peoples around the globe. However, I don't

think my case is overstated. Habitat destruction takes many forms:

overcrowding and encroachment by human development is one form;

invasive plant species is another, though its effects usually take

longer to become noticeable.

>

>

>

> <zrosenbe@s...> wrote:

> I think it may be wise to consider that many so-called " Chinese

> herbs " have similar species or 'family members' growing here in the

> Americas, and have at least similar properties. Over time, perhaps,

> we can use these as medicines. The medicines I pick in the wild

have

> obvious potency, and it would be a shame not to begin to use and

> understand them. I remember picking peppermint from a mountain

> stream in Taos last summer, and the students couldn't believe the

> potency of the mint, spreading through the body.

>

> I also think that humanity is part of nature, and that the

> spreading of species around the world is not always a bad thing.

> There are always tradeoffs and choices to be made in such things as

> environmental management. We are the stewards of the planet, but

> that doesn't mean that we shouldn't grow herbs from China locally.

I

> think perhaps you overstate the risks.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " Bob Flaws "

<pemachophel2001> wrote:

>

> Tom,

>

> Sorry, I don't know the exact process. What I do know is that we get

> charged extra for this service. I also know that our meds test

> extremely low (to non-detectable) in terms of heavy metals. So it

> seems to me we're getting our money's worth. Obviously, whatever is

> happening before the product is concentrated, in other words, while

> the material is still all in solution.

 

I have visited the KP factory in Taiwan (KPC distribution in the US),

and they had a very high-tech lab and I recall them discussing

screening for heavy metals. From every batch, I'm not sure, but the

Chinese producers of quality granules are well-aware of the risks of

heavy metals. Have granule products on the market been found to

contain significant heavy metals?

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Andrea is correct. 2 examples of this are kudzu and qing hao ( sweet Annie.

)

 

Cara

 

 

 

 

> I agree that is it wise to explore use of native plants that are related to

> Asian medicinals for similarities and cross-usage. There are indeed potent

> plants everywhere that have been used for healing purposes by indigenous

> peoples around the globe. However, I don't think my case is overstated.

> Habitat destruction takes many forms: overcrowding and encroachment by human

> development is one form; invasive plant species is another, though its effects

> usually take longer to become noticeable.

>

>

>

> <zrosenbe wrote:

> I think it may be wise to consider that many so-called " Chinese

> herbs " have similar species or 'family members' growing here in the

> Americas, and have at least similar properties. Over time, perhaps,

> we can use these as medicines. The medicines I pick in the wild have

> obvious potency, and it would be a shame not to begin to use and

> understand them. I remember picking peppermint from a mountain

> stream in Taos last summer, and the students couldn't believe the

> potency of the mint, spreading through the body.

>

> I also think that humanity is part of nature, and that the

> spreading of species around the world is not always a bad thing.

> There are always tradeoffs and choices to be made in such things as

> environmental management. We are the stewards of the planet, but

> that doesn't mean that we shouldn't grow herbs from China locally. I

> think perhaps you overstate the risks.

>

>

> On Nov 29, 2005, at 8:08 AM, wrote:

>

>> > Hey folks,

>> >

>> > There's a serious concern that's being overlooked in the

>> > conversation about growng Chinese herbs in the North American

>> > continent; they're not native to here. While that may not be a

>> > problem in terms of actually growing the plants, it can become a

>> > huge problem in the future, should these plants " naturalize " and

>> > become invasive species. As invasive species claim space (invade)

>> > ecosystems currently occupied by native species, these natives get

>> > crowded out, become endangered, and risk extinction. Every

>> > ecosystem in the U.S. has problems with invasive species and

>> > endangered native species. Many of our ancestors from Europe and

>> > even China brought their favorite flowers, trees and food crops

>> > with them as seeds; some airborne seeds stowed away on ships and

>> > still others got mixed in bags of grain seed, to make their way

>> > here and spread where they found hospitable conditions.

>> >

>> > My first degree is in Environmental Science and Land Use

>> > Planning. My interest in that discipline was, and still is,

>> > regional protection of wildlands for all native species of

>> > wildlife. As large tracts of unspoiled wilderness become

>> > increasingly rare, the problem of invasive species becomes all the

>> > more serious; the smaller size of tracts of wilderness make them

>> > all the more prone to complete infiltration by non-native species,

>> > at the cost of decimation of local endemic species. A secondary

>> > level of this problem is that eradication of native species reduces

>> > their availability as a food source for the animals which depend

>> > upon them. All life forms are interdependent. We cannot

>> > exterminate one and expect there will not be a ripple effect up the

>> > food chain; in all likelihood, animals dependent on these food

>> > sources will either die out or attempt to relocate outside of their

>> > native region (migrate), often into abutting areas which are

>> > populated with people who do not tolerate

>> > their presence, regard them as pests, and seek to eradicate them.

>> >

>> > I agree that heavy metals contamination of herbs is also a

>> > serious problem which demands our careful consideration. However,

>> > we need to take care also to consider what problems we may be

>> > creating in the future, by looking for quick and " inexpensive "

>> > solutions in the present. The cost may indeed be greater than we

>> > can imagine.

>> >

>> > Please accept my humble apologies if this is too off-topic. It

>> > seem integral to the discussion, in my mind.

>> >

>> >

>> > Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

>> > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

>> > Cottonwood, AZ 86326

>> > (928) 274-1373

>> >

>> > mdavid wrote:

>> > I was wondering when this topic would come up. It has gotten

>> > increasingly more

>> > difficult for me to prescribe chinese herbs over the years due to

>> > this very

>> > reason. It did not help to have spent a year in China, to have seen

>> > the chinese

>> > carrying large buckets of human waste to their fields, to fertilize

>> > the crops,

>> > that would end up in homes, restaurants, etc.

>> > I too have thought that growing similar species here in Canada/Us

>> > must be one

>> > of the alternatives.

>> > For those who have enough space to grow something, perhaps we could

>> > start a

>> > large " Share Crop Exchange " . Each person could focus on the in's

>> > and out's of

>> > cultivating and harvesting their particular chosen herb. The

>> > hardest of course

>> > would be the roots, but as we know several of the chinese herbs are

>> > common

>> > perenial shrubs, flowers, weeds, shells...and would be much easier

>> > to grow.

>> > Steven Foster would be a great source of information. The title of

>> > his book

>> > escapes me right now.

>> > Anyone have any interest in this concept?

>> >

>> > best regards,

>> > Marjorie

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > I wa

>> > Quoting <:

>> >

>>> >>

>>> >> http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(3tyqaj45ve0jav235nz0dy45)/app/

>>> >> home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent & backto=issue,8,19;journal,

>>> >> 29,53;linkingpublicationresults,1:107843,1

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >> something the TCM community has long turned a blind eye to is the

>>> >> heavy metal contamination of chinese soil. While at least one herb

>>> >> importer tests about 50 herbs for a few heavy metals, these tests are

>>> >> mainly focused on cultivated plants and those most commonly used.

>>> >> However the vast majority of plants are not tested and evidence

>>> >> suggests they are highly contaminated. In fact, one proposed

>>> >> solution to the soil contamination is to grow certain plants that are

>>> >> know to have high uptake rates of heavy metals. China's

>>> >> industrialization has increased dramatically in the past decade.

>>> >> They burn many times more coal than they used to and cars have

>>> >> largely replaced bicycles as the main form of transportation on most

>>> >> city streets. When many of us got into this field, even though we

>>> >> all knew China was a very polluted country, the problem has grown

>>> >> exponentially. With all due respect to the few herbs on the AMerican

>>> >> market that are actually tested, we must realize that such herbs are

>>> >> not being tested by independent outsiders, but rather by the very

>>> >> vested interests who sell those herbs. Many of you would not trust

>>> >> such a regulatory scheme if it involved your local water or soil, yet

>>> >> have no trouble dispensing huge amounts of herbs to their patients

>>> >> for profit. This is just one more reason, people should be very

>>> >> concerned about any longterm use of chinese herbs. In addition,

>>> >> issues of species decimation is now also becoming a reality,

>>> >> especially in the aftermath of SARS and the foremath of Avian flu.

>>> >> Things have changed and those changes will only accelerate and worsen

>>> >> as China moves hellbent down its capitalist growth path. Ethical

>>> >> herbalists and those concerned solely about toxicity issues now must

>>> >> seriously consider these problems. It is quite a dilemma as the only

>>> >> alternative is to grow the herbs organically somewhere else. In the

>>> >> US, this would make the cost to your patients prohibitive, so the

>>> >> only option is to find some as yet uncontaminated third world

>>> >> farming country with cheap labor and set up chinese herb farms.

>>> >> Unfortunately many chinese herbs are wildcrafted and we don't even

>>> >> know how to cultivate them. I never thought I would write these

>>> >> words, but I think the only viable solution is to begin a concerted

>>> >> effort to replace the use of chinese herbs with substitute species

>>> >> from this country and other parts of the planet. , your

>>> >> day may be here!

>>> >>

>>> >> here is the link to the complete google search I did. this search

>>> >> was of scholarly journals, not scandalmongering websites, BTW

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >> Web/Online Coordinator

>>> >> Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

>>> >> Prescott College

>>> >> http://www.prescott.edu

>>> >>

>>> >>

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>>> >>

>>> >>

[Guest guest]

The biggest mistake I ever made in my garden was planting chai hu. It

spreads by rhizomes and completely takes over! Best to save it for a

medicinal garden. I was only trying to grow it decoratively

Cara

 

 

 

 

> I got a few seeds from Robert Newman and managed to grow a little Chai

> Hu plant pretty easily. However I can see that my own liver qi

> constraint would take more than a few weeds in a pot.

>

> Warning: there is a new book called something like Rhino Horns and

> Tiger Bones about how TCM is causing the extinction of these animals.

> I say warning because the review I read seems to blame the whole field

> for the greed of a few.

> doug

>

>

>

>

> , <snakeoil.works@m...> wrote:

>> >

>> > Andrea and all,

>> >

>> > I was as surprised as any to find that several U.S. farmers are

> growing Chinese herbs, and OM practitioners are buying them. So I was

> anxious to see and touch the process, even though, as a city dweller,

> I have not much land for " growing my own " , as we used to say. High

> Falls Gardens is a leader in this area and, working with other growers

> in the Medicinal Herb Consortium, they've put a lot of thought into

> issues such as medicinal equivalency, invasiveness, methods of

> cultivation. I , along with 5 others, was an intern at the HFG farm

> this year, and helped to plant and harvest Zhi Mu, Gan Cao, Yi Mu Cao,

> Jie Geng, Gou Qi Zi and others. You can read about it at:

> http://nofany.org/projects/medicinalherbsfallupdate.pdf

>> >

>> > And even though we all read more than we have eyeball juice for, it

> is still quite possible not to be aware of the nature and extent of

> these efforts already being made. That's why I enter this post, even

> though I may have already before. If you have ever gardened yourself,

> you might want to activate that Johnny Appleseed fantasy and get a

> few seeds in. Jean Giblette, Joe Hollis or Robert Newman would, being

> country folk, be quite willing to give simple straightforward advice

> on how to start your batch. If you're still at the fantasy level, why

> don't you drive your hybrid down to the nearest video store(unless, of

> course, you live in a city, in which case you can just walk;-) and

> rent the animated feature, " The Man Who Planted Trees " . That is really

> guaranteed to get your eyeball juices up.

>> >

>> > all best,

>> > Ann

>> >

>> >

>> > I agree that is it wise to explore use of native plants that are

> related to Asian medicinals for similarities and cross-usage. There

> are indeed potent plants everywhere that have been used for healing

> purposes by indigenous peoples around the globe. However, I don't

> think my case is overstated. Habitat destruction takes many forms:

> overcrowding and encroachment by human development is one form;

> invasive plant species is another, though its effects usually take

> longer to become noticeable.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > <zrosenbe@s...> wrote:

>> > I think it may be wise to consider that many so-called " Chinese

>> > herbs " have similar species or 'family members' growing here in the

>> > Americas, and have at least similar properties. Over time, perhaps,

>> > we can use these as medicines. The medicines I pick in the wild

> have

>> > obvious potency, and it would be a shame not to begin to use and

>> > understand them. I remember picking peppermint from a mountain

>> > stream in Taos last summer, and the students couldn't believe the

>> > potency of the mint, spreading through the body.

>> >

>> > I also think that humanity is part of nature, and that the

>> > spreading of species around the world is not always a bad thing.

>> > There are always tradeoffs and choices to be made in such things as

>> > environmental management. We are the stewards of the planet, but

>> > that doesn't mean that we shouldn't grow herbs from China locally.

> I

>> > think perhaps you overstate the risks.

>> >

>> >

>> >

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

> approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

> discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you want to press the point, there are biologists who believe that

since humanity is a part of nature, that the spread of species around

the world as a result of human activity is part of the ever changing

face of the planet's flora. While I also decry the spoiling of the

environment by concrete, pollution, etc., plant species are

constantly changing, emerging and disappearing.

 

If kudzu were managed and harvested for medicine, clothing fiber and

food, it might change our relationship with the plant in the

Americas. The inability to eradicate it with pesticides tells us

something about its power. And qing hao? We can't get enough of it

to make artemesin for malaria treatment!

 

 

On Dec 1, 2005, at 2:50 AM, Cara Frank wrote:

 

> Andrea is correct. 2 examples of this are kudzu and qing hao

> ( sweet Annie.

> )

>

> Cara

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

uh, yeah. That irony doesn't escape me. Maybe a national gathering project???

 

But, Cara, an even better example of introduction of subversive foreigners might

be the cane toad in Australia -- another great documentary, btw, called 'Cane

Toads'. Funnily enough, it's even funny. Get that one if you like to laugh and

cry at the same time -- and you won't even need to smoke the bufotoxin.

 

ann

 

 

 

 

Andrea is correct. 2 examples of this are kudzu and qing hao ( sweet Annie.

)

 

Cara

 

 

 

 

> I agree that is it wise to explore use of native plants that are related to

> Asian medicinals for similarities and cross-usage. There are indeed potent

> plants everywhere that have been used for healing purposes by indigenous

> peoples around the globe. However, I don't think my case is overstated.

> Habitat destruction takes many forms: overcrowding and encroachment by human

> development is one form; invasive plant species is another, though its

effects

> usually take longer to become noticeable.

>

>

>

>

----------

 

 

 

Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release 12/1/05

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ain't experience a bitch? Hopefully soon we'll have more shoulders to scramble

over.

ann

 

p.s. this post has been pruned...by a special thumb and forefinger program.

 

 

The biggest mistake I ever made in my garden was planting chai hu. It

spreads by rhizomes and completely takes over! Best to save it for a

medicinal garden. I was only trying to grow it decoratively

Cara

 

 

 

 

> I got a few seeds from Robert Newman and managed to grow a little Chai

> Hu plant pretty easily. However I can see that my own liver qi

> constraint would take more than a few weeds in a pot.

>

> Warning: there is a new book called something like Rhino Horns and

> Tiger Bones about how TCM is causing the extinction of these animals.

> I say warning because the review I read seems to blame the whole field

> for the greed of a few.

> doug

>

>

----------

 

 

 

Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release 12/1/05

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the laugh

 

Cara

 

 

 

 

> uh, yeah. That irony doesn't escape me. Maybe a national gathering project???

>

> But, Cara, an even better example of introduction of subversive foreigners

> might be the cane toad in Australia -- another great documentary, btw, called

> 'Cane Toads'. Funnily enough, it's even funny. Get that one if you like to

> laugh and cry at the same time -- and you won't even need to smoke the

> bufotoxin.

>

> ann

>

>

>

>

> Andrea is correct. 2 examples of this are kudzu and qing hao ( sweet Annie.

> )

>

> Cara

>

>

>

>

>> > I agree that is it wise to explore use of native plants that are related

to

>> > Asian medicinals for similarities and cross-usage. There are indeed

>> potent

>> > plants everywhere that have been used for healing purposes by indigenous

>> > peoples around the globe. However, I don't think my case is overstated.

>> > Habitat destruction takes many forms: overcrowding and encroachment by >>

human

>> > development is one form; invasive plant species is another, though its

>> effects

>> > usually take longer to become noticeable.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

> ----------

>

>

>

> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release 12/1/05

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

oui, c'est a rire.

did you see that movie btw?

ann

 

 

Thanks for the laugh

 

Cara

 

 

 

 

> uh, yeah. That irony doesn't escape me. Maybe a national gathering

project???

>

> But, Cara, an even better example of introduction of subversive foreigners

> might be the cane toad in Australia -- another great documentary, btw,

called

> 'Cane Toads'. Funnily enough, it's even funny. Get that one if you like to

> laugh and cry at the same time -- and you won't even need to smoke the

> bufotoxin.

>

> ann

>

>

 

----------

 

 

 

Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release 12/1/05

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Greg, While this may in fact be done with some CO2 extracts, I

haven't seen those coming out of China yet. I have heard of a company

doing hot water extractions that claims to 'wash out' heavy metals,

though. Gus Turpin

 

>

> Bob Flaws wrote:

>

> > When extracts are made from Chinese herbs, the heavy metals can be

> > " washed out " of them during the processing.

>

>

> For clarification, can I assume here that what is being referred to

here is

> specifically a CO2 type of extraction process?

>

> I'd be interested in being informed of any good books on making chinese

> herbal extracts as I am interested in making my own (nonindustrial

methods),

> if anyone knows of any.

>

> Respectfully,

> Greg Campbell