OCD

[Guest guest]

Is anyone aware of studies demonstrating acupuncture or TCM herbal effectiveness

for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?

 

Thanks - Will Morris

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Below is what I found using " obsessive compulsive disorder acupuncture " as a

search on Acubriefs. Not too much.

 

There doesn't seem to be a current study at NIH either

http://tinyurl.com/7owou

 

 

 

Sean

 

 

 

[Clinical study on treatment of obsessive compulsive neurosis by acupoint

stimulating control] (in Chinese) Author(s): " FENG, B., LIU, L. Y., XU, F.

Z., Chen, J., Wang, P., Chen, W., and Yu, E. "

 

 

<http://www.acubriefs.com/wkstone/webkeystone.py?Profile=RefLibrary/viewCita

tion.prof & RefID=23734 & UserID=biz_acubriefs> View Citation

 

Pub. 2005 Periodical: Zhongguo Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi Vol.25 Issue

9 pp. 801-803 URL:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=A

bstract & list_uids=16248242> & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16248242

 

_____

 

Chinese Medical Psychiatry: A Textbook and Manual Author(s): " Flaws, B. and

Lake, J. "

 

 

<http://www.acubriefs.com/wkstone/webkeystone.py?Profile=RefLibrary/viewCita

tion.prof & RefID=14514 & UserID=biz_acubriefs> View Citation

 

Pub. 2001 Periodical: Vol. Issue pp. -484 URL:

http://www.bluepoppy.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?

<http://www.bluepoppy.com/acb/showdetl.cfm? & DID=8 & Product_ID=760 & CATID=11>

& DID=8 & Product_ID=760 & CATID=11

 

_____

 

[Reflexotherapy of asthenic conditions in neuroses]. [RUSSIAN] Author(s):

" Kochetkov, V. D., Dallakian, I. G., Mikhailova, A. A., Belitskaia, R. A.,

and Afanas'eva, V. K. "

 

 

<http://www.acubriefs.com/wkstone/webkeystone.py?Profile=RefLibrary/viewCita

tion.prof & RefID=6781 & UserID=biz_acubriefs> View Citation

 

Pub. 1988 Periodical: Zh Nevropatol Psikhiatr Vol.88 Issue 2 pp.

102-106 URL: <http://www.acubriefs.com/wkstone/webkeystone.py>

 

_____

 

[Experience with Chinese acupuncture in psychiatry and in psychosomatic

medicine]. [italian] Author(s): " Cazzullo, C. L., Rogora, G. A., Frigoli,

D., and Morelli, R. "

 

 

<http://www.acubriefs.com/wkstone/webkeystone.py?Profile=RefLibrary/viewCita

tion.prof & RefID=5075 & UserID=biz_acubriefs> View Citation

 

Pub. 1977 Periodical: Minerva Med Vol.68 Issue 33 pp. 2295-2307 URL:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, WMorris116@A... wrote:

>

> Is anyone aware of studies demonstrating acupuncture or TCM herbal

effectiveness for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?

 

For an English source, you should investigate Chinese Medical

Psychiatry by Bob Flaws & James Lake. The following website has an

abstract from a study on the treatment of OCD with tian ma gou teng

yin. See: http://chinesemedicalpsychiatry.com/articles/article_ocd.html

 

This article indicates that there is relatively little information

written on the TCM treatment of OCD; however, it also indicates that

you can further investigate the issue by pursuing Blue Poppy's

distance learning seminars on " The Treatment of Mental-emotional

Conditions with . " The article above also indicates

that treatment should utilize psychotherapy as well as medicinal therapy.

 

All modern Chinese journals are available in a database that can be

accessed for about $300 US. Many Chinese TCM universities have access

to this database in their libraries. A Chinese search should yield

whatever info is available, if you have access to the database.

 

The University of Arizona (Tucson) recently completed a study on the

treatment of OCD with psilocybin, but I am not aware of any historical

use of psilocybin in Chinese medicine.

 

TCM has no traditional disease that corresponds exactly to OCD, so

anything that you can find will be modern, integrative medicine by

definition.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

, " Eric Brand "

<smilinglotus> wrote:

>

> , WMorris116@A... wrote:

> >

> > Is anyone aware of studies demonstrating acupuncture or TCM herbal

> effectiveness for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?

 

BTW, I believe that OCD is called wang4 xiang3 qiang3 po4 zheng4 in

Chinese. (ÍýÏëŠÆÈÖ¢)

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Hi Eric,

 

I had a patient briefly while I was an intern at PCOM, who was seeing me

specifically for OCD. I treated her for a deficient spleen (obsessive

thinking), and we were both astonished at her progress. Sorry, I don't remember

specifics of the treatment, but I still remember how overjoyed she was with her

results.

 

 

Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

, WMorris116@A... wrote:

>

> Is anyone aware of studies demonstrating acupuncture or TCM herbal

effectiveness for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?

 

For an English source, you should investigate Chinese Medical

Psychiatry by Bob Flaws & James Lake. The following website has an

abstract from a study on the treatment of OCD with tian ma gou teng

yin. See: http://chinesemedicalpsychiatry.com/articles/article_ocd.html

 

This article indicates that there is relatively little information

written on the TCM treatment of OCD; however, it also indicates that

you can further investigate the issue by pursuing Blue Poppy's

distance learning seminars on " The Treatment of Mental-emotional

Conditions with . " The article above also indicates

that treatment should utilize psychotherapy as well as medicinal therapy.

 

All modern Chinese journals are available in a database that can be

accessed for about $300 US. Many Chinese TCM universities have access

to this database in their libraries. A Chinese search should yield

whatever info is available, if you have access to the database.

 

The University of Arizona (Tucson) recently completed a study on the

treatment of OCD with psilocybin, but I am not aware of any historical

use of psilocybin in Chinese medicine.

 

TCM has no traditional disease that corresponds exactly to OCD, so

anything that you can find will be modern, integrative medicine by

definition.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

,

<> wrote:

>

> Hi Eric,

>

> I had a patient briefly while I was an intern at PCOM, who was

seeing me specifically for OCD. I treated her for a deficient spleen

(obsessive thinking), and we were both astonished at her progress.

Sorry, I don't remember specifics of the treatment, but I still

remember how overjoyed she was with her results.

 

That's great, always nice to hear about things that work.

 

We often read about excessive thought and preoccupation damaging the

spleen. I came across an interesting quote recently that offers an

subtle twist on the conventional statement: The famous physician Zhang

Jing-Yue (Ming Dynasty) further developed the idea of thought damaging

the spleen with his statement that ¡°difficulty in releasing thought

causes damage to the spleen.¡± First time I have heard it expressed in

that way.

 

Although somewhat off the subject of OCD, I heard an interesting

explanation for the Kampo use of Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang in

mental disorders recently. One of the interesting things about the

Kampo use of this formula is that it is indicated for both balding in

women as well as schizophrenia. The explanation for this offers a

glimpse into the extremely clever understanding of pathomechanisms

that allowed Japanese scholar-doctors to develop Kampo.

 

How can chai hu jia long gu mu li tang treat both schizophrenia and

balding? In chai hu jia long gu mu li tang presentation, there is

internal depression with rheum in the inner body. Phlegm-rheum (tan

yin) is often involved in mental disease.

 

The ascent of internally-generated phlegm-rheum is commonly seen as a

pathomechanism in schizophrenic patients, who also often have heat

symptoms such as a red tongue with dry yellow fur and irregular

defecation.

 

This formula is using da huang to abduct bowel heat. Gui zhi and fu

ling transform rheum. Long gu and mu li are heavy settlers and chai

hu regulates free coursing. Thus, the formula transforms rheum and

frees the bowels to drain heat while rectifying liver qi. Regulating

the bowels naturally restores normal upbearing and downbearing so that

clear yang can rise. The gallbladder qi can thus rise to the head to

nourish the brain to treat mental disease as well as balding in young

women.

 

It is also interesting to note that Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang is

one of the rare formulas that uses gui zhi and da huang in the same

prescription, which is significant given Zhang Zhong-Jing's early

point in history, when medicinals were fewer in number and were

selected extremely consciously.

 

Eric Brand

[Guest guest]

Eric -

 

Do you know how one would find out about how to get

access to this database - is there a website?

 

Marnae

 

> All modern Chinese journals are available in a

> database that can be

> accessed for about $300 US. Many Chinese TCM

> universities have access

> to this database in their libraries. A Chinese

> search should yield

> whatever info is available, if you have access to

> the database.

>

> The University of Arizona (Tucson) recently

> completed a study on the

> treatment of OCD with psilocybin, but I am not aware

> of any historical

> use of psilocybin in Chinese medicine.

>

> TCM has no traditional disease that corresponds

> exactly to OCD, so

> anything that you can find will be modern,

> integrative medicine by

> definition.

>

> Eric

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, marnae ergil <marnae@p...>

wrote:

>

> Eric -

>

> Do you know how one would find out about how to get

> access to this database - is there a website?

 

Hi Marnae,

 

I believe that it is web-based, similar to a subscription service

except that you pay a $300 deposit, then they deduct articles that you

choose to buy from the deposit. I think it is just a couple bucks per

article. I saw the database in Beijing recently at the China Academy

of TCM and the Beijing University of TCM. However, of

the CHA told me that it is available here with the $300 deposit

system. I think it is the same database. When I was in China

recently, they said that it was really expensive and only found in

institutions (but it could be that they are just referring to $300 as

really expensive). Perhaps Jason can point you to the website,

otherwise you might need to wait till I get back to Beijing in January.

 

There is also some really nice digital software in Chinese that

contains dozens and dozens of ancient texts on a searchable CD. If

you want a copy of this software, I can send you a copy when I am back

in Beijing. It costs $40 or so.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

" Difficulty in releasing thought " - an interesting way to word this. It exactly

fits how I have always conceptualized it, but never put it into words before.

Thank you.

 

 

Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

,

<> wrote:

>

> Hi Eric,

>

> I had a patient briefly while I was an intern at PCOM, who was

seeing me specifically for OCD. I treated her for a deficient spleen

(obsessive thinking), and we were both astonished at her progress.

Sorry, I don't remember specifics of the treatment, but I still

remember how overjoyed she was with her results.

 

That's great, always nice to hear about things that work.

 

We often read about excessive thought and preoccupation damaging the

spleen. I came across an interesting quote recently that offers an

subtle twist on the conventional statement: The famous physician Zhang

Jing-Yue (Ming Dynasty) further developed the idea of thought damaging

the spleen with his statement that ¡°difficulty in releasing thought

causes damage to the spleen.¡± First time I have heard it expressed in

that way.

 

Although somewhat off the subject of OCD, I heard an interesting

explanation for the Kampo use of Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang in

mental disorders recently. One of the interesting things about the

Kampo use of this formula is that it is indicated for both balding in

women as well as schizophrenia. The explanation for this offers a

glimpse into the extremely clever understanding of pathomechanisms

that allowed Japanese scholar-doctors to develop Kampo.

 

How can chai hu jia long gu mu li tang treat both schizophrenia and

balding? In chai hu jia long gu mu li tang presentation, there is

internal depression with rheum in the inner body. Phlegm-rheum (tan

yin) is often involved in mental disease.

 

The ascent of internally-generated phlegm-rheum is commonly seen as a

pathomechanism in schizophrenic patients, who also often have heat

symptoms such as a red tongue with dry yellow fur and irregular

defecation.

 

This formula is using da huang to abduct bowel heat. Gui zhi and fu

ling transform rheum. Long gu and mu li are heavy settlers and chai

hu regulates free coursing. Thus, the formula transforms rheum and

frees the bowels to drain heat while rectifying liver qi. Regulating

the bowels naturally restores normal upbearing and downbearing so that

clear yang can rise. The gallbladder qi can thus rise to the head to

nourish the brain to treat mental disease as well as balding in young

women.

 

It is also interesting to note that Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang is

one of the rare formulas that uses gui zhi and da huang in the same

prescription, which is significant given Zhang Zhong-Jing's early

point in history, when medicinals were fewer in number and were

selected extremely consciously.

 

Eric Brand

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Eric -

 

Thanks for the info. Jason - are you out there? Do

you know the database website?

 

I would love a copy of the CD next time you have

access to it. Just let me know where to send $.

 

Thanks.

 

Marnae

 

--- Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

 

> , marnae

> ergil <marnae@p...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Eric -

> >

> > Do you know how one would find out about how to

> get

> > access to this database - is there a website?

>

> Hi Marnae,

>

> I believe that it is web-based, similar to a

> subscription service

> except that you pay a $300 deposit, then they deduct

> articles that you

> choose to buy from the deposit. I think it is just

> a couple bucks per

> article. I saw the database in Beijing recently at

> the China Academy

> of TCM and the Beijing University of TCM. However,

> of

> the CHA told me that it is available here with the

> $300 deposit

> system. I think it is the same database. When I

> was in China

> recently, they said that it was really expensive and

> only found in

> institutions (but it could be that they are just

> referring to $300 as

> really expensive). Perhaps Jason can point you to

> the website,

> otherwise you might need to wait till I get back to

> Beijing in January.

>

> There is also some really nice digital software in

> Chinese that

> contains dozens and dozens of ancient texts on a

> searchable CD. If

> you want a copy of this software, I can send you a

> copy when I am back

> in Beijing. It costs $40 or so.

>

> Eric

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " Eric Brand "

<smilinglotus> wrote:

>

> , marnae ergil <marnae@p...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Eric -

> >

> > Do you know how one would find out about how to get

> > access to this database - is there a website?

>

> Hi Marnae,

>

> I believe that it is web-based, similar to a subscription service

> except that you pay a $300 deposit, then they deduct articles that you

> choose to buy from the deposit.

 

I am d to www.wanfangdata.com , the website I think you're

talking about. They have a new mirror site in the US. I have never

heard about the 300$ system though. They cover all areas, not only

medicine, so I'm not really sure this is the website Eric's talking

about.

Access for institutions is very expensive (Danny Liu of wanfangdata

told me it cost >28.000 EUR per year !) but I was able to negotiate a

deal with them as a private user. So I get access to all the Chinese

medical journals and their archives.

I believe the money is worth it because you can do detailed boolean

searches, in English and Chinese. A valuable clinical tool, great for

finding out what formulas or points doctors use in China for this or

that condition. I also use it to short-translate scientific research,

to be published on a website so people may find out about the benefits

of Chinese medicine (people like to read that it's scientifically

tested and proven)

Only 1-2% of the articles are in English, but many do have short

abstracts in English. At current, there are over 110.000 Chinese

medical articles online. Oh boy : )

 

Regards,

 

Tom.