Kidney, Liver, Same Mother: No?

[Guest guest]

Hi Al, & All,

 

Al wrote:

> I'm working on an article where a " statement of fact in TCM " is

> presented, specifically " kidney, liver, same mother " . I want to add

> something that I learned somewhere about biomedicine too as it pretty

> much states the same thing, but I'm having no luck in finding any

> supporting information on the web. My understanding is that the

> (biomedical) liver and kidneys arise from the same embryonic tissue.

> However, I am unable to locate anything credible or incredible that

> supports this on-line. I've been searching for [ " embryonic tissue "

> liver kidney] with no luck. Am I tripping, or do I remember this little

> factoid correctly? If anybody knows for sure, and can come up with

> better search criteria, that would be great. Thanks.

 

Al, tripping, I think. If you go back to the fertilised ovum, you can say that

ALL tissues come from the same mother.

 

My embryology is all but forgotten but a Google search threw up a few

facts. In early embryogenesis, different organs form from different

primitive tissues. Liver and kidney derive from different embryological

tissues.

 

http://www.genesdev.org/cgi/content/full/15/23/3217 says: The liver

derives from the anterior duodenal endoderm (posterior foregut) ...

 

http://www.pedresearch.org/cgi/content/full/51/4/413 says: The liver

derives from the portion of the embryonic endoderm adjacent to the

developing cardiac mesoderm. Between the two embryonic structures is

the septum transversum. Cells from the septum transversum and

cardiac mesoderm work in concert to induce hepatic specification of

endodermal cells through the coordinated production of specific bone

morphogenetic proteins and fibroblast growth factors (reviewed in ref.

6). The result of this molecular activation is the production of

hepatoblasts, which are fully competent to invade the surrounding

mesenchyme and form the liver bud. However, this " invasion " is

fundamentally dependent on vascular endothelial cells, as demonstrated

by Matsumoto et al. In a series of logical experiments, the authors first

used markers of embryonic endothelial cells to identify a small

population of cells interposed between the thickening hepatic epithelium

and the septum transversum. These cells were noted to move into the

septum transversum in synchrony with the hepatic endoderm; in later

phases of development, they formed sinusoids. Next, to determine

whether endothelial cells participate in the hepatic specification of the

endoderm, the authors studied mouse embryos with inactivation of flk-1

gene, which encodes a cell surface receptor for vascular endothelial

growth factor. Inactivation of the flk-1 gene causes lack of endothelial

cells during embryogenesis and lethality at mid-late gestation. Despite

the lack of endothelial cells, earlier phases of gestation revealed that flk-

1–deficient embryos displayed intact hepatic specification of the

endoderm; however, outgrowth to form the liver bud was severely

impaired in these embryos. To determine whether the endothelial cells

promote hepatic growth in isolation of the rest of the embryo, the

authors cultured flk-1–deficient embryo explants in a tissue culture

system that promotes liver vasculogenesis. Growth of albumin-

expressing cells was significantly reduced, while expansion of other cell

types (such as fibroblasts) appeared unaffected. A similar finding was

produced by incubation of normal embryo explants with NK4, an

angiogenic inhibitor. Therefore, the authors concluded that endothelial

cells themselves, prior to formation of functioning vessels, direct early

phases of hepatic morphogenesis.

 

http://tinyurl.com/9dze7 says: The liver derives from the definitive gut

endoderm, which expresses many genes in common with the visceral

endoderm, which give rise to the yolk sac. The gut endoderm forms

from epithelial sheets which form the foregut and hindgut, which

elongate and converge at the midsection. During determination, different

domains of endoderm are dependent on different groups of transcription

factors, which appear to be controlled partially by preprogramming and

partially by the influence of overlying mesoderm.

 

http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/110/3/305 says: The mammalian

kidney derives from two embryonic tissues: the ureteric bud, which

forms the renal collecting system, and the metanephric mesenchyme,

which differentiates into nephrons and tubular interstitial cells (2).

Inductive interactions between these two tissues regulate kidney

morphogenesis (3). The metanephric mesenchyme supports the

viability, growth, and branching of the ureteric bud as it forms the renal

collecting system. In turn, the growth of the ureteric bud or nascent

collecting system induces multipotent nephron progenitors of the

metanephric mesenchyme to differentiate into glomerular and tubular

epithelial cell types (3, 4). Several of the signaling molecules, receptors,

and transcription factors required for these inductive interactions have

been identified [see ref. 5 for review].

 

http://tinyurl.com/786tb says : The metanephric or true kidney derives

from the ureteric bud (arising from the mesonephric duct) at ... the more

distal segment forms the uterus and upper vagina.... kidney derives

from the intermediate mesoderm,

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

 

 

 

 

Ireland.

Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

 

 

 

" Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

Chinese Proverb

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

There is a whole chapter in Kiiko Matsumoto's and Stephen Birch's book Hara

Diagnosis: Reflections on the Sea which discusses embryological development

and their relationships to Chinese medical ideas. At least there notes on

chapters can provide resources that may be helpful.

 

Sue Saari

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everybody for setting me straight on the liver/kidney emboyonic

tissue issue. It appears that indeed, I was tripping.

 

Now, to tackle " the heart stores the shen " . Check this out:

 

Changes in Heart Transplant Recipients That Parallel the Personalities of

Their Donors

 

Paul Pearsall, Gary E. R. Schwartz and Linda G. S. Russek

Abstract: It is generally assumed that learning is restricted to neural and

immune systems. However, the systemic memory hypothesis predicts that all

dynamical systems that contain recurrent feedback loops store information

and energy to various degrees. Sensitive transplant patients may evidence

personal changes that parallel the history of their donors. The objective of

this study was to evaluate whether changes following heart transplant

surgery parallel the history of the donors. We conducted open-ended

interviews with volunteer transplant recipients, recipient families or

friends, and donor families or friends, in hospitals in various parts of the

country. Patients included ten recipients who had received heart or

heart–lung transplants. Main outcome measures were transcripts of audiotaped

interviews quoted verbatim. Two to 5 parallels per case were observed

between changes following surgery and the histories of the donors. Parallels

included changes in food, music, art, sexual, recreational, and career

preferences, as well as specific instances of perceptions of names and

sensory experiences related to the donors. The incidence of recipient

awareness of personal changes in cardiac transplant patients is unknown. The

effects of the immunosuppressant drugs, stress of the surgery, and

statistical coincidence are insufficient to explain the findings. We suggest

that cellular memory, possibly systemic memory, is a plausible explanation

for these parallels.

 

 

 

On 12/21/05, Susan Saari <mersee2u wrote:

>

> There is a whole chapter in Kiiko Matsumoto's and Stephen Birch's book

> Hara Diagnosis: Reflections on the Sea which discusses embryological

> development and their relationships to Chinese medical ideas. At least

> there notes on chapters can provide resources that may be helpful.

>

> Sue Saari

 

 

 

 

--

 

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