Powdered Raw Herbs: cooking method

[Guest guest]

Note: the top of this message repeats in each thread as background:

 

A friend of mine's raw pharmacy consists solely of powdered (ground to a

very fine powder)RAW bulk single herbs, as can be purchased from Mayway. I

have a few questions about this method that I'd like to pose to the group.

I have broken each topic into a different thread for discussion. I

encourage the addition of any other concerns or benefits to this method. I

see this prescribing method spreading. 1 year ago I knew 1 person doing it,

now I know at least 25. These questions need to be asked/answered for sure.

Below are common practices with the ground RAW method followed by my

comments:

 

 

2. Herbs are administered by pouring boiling water into a glass containing

the herbs. Herbs are so finely ground that they nearly disappear, they look

like confectioner's sugar. This grind is much smaller in texture and size

than I've seen from any small pharmacy herb grinder. Some Px consume the

entire contents, and some filter out the little bit of sediment that

remains. Some experimentation has been done recently with adding a slight

amount of water and making little " wan " , dosages remaining constant.

 

- Is it possible that the best of both worlds is accomplished by this

cooking method? Long cook herbs may not need the long cook b/c the plant

fiber is pulverized, yet light herbs and herbs with essential oils won't be

damaged by prolonged heat?

 

- But what of an herb like Da Huang? Which of its natures will be evident

in this method? Does a longer cooking just get " deeper " into the herb, or

is it a chemical change that manifests? How to effect heat clearing vs.

purging, etc. Incidentally this brings up one reason why I like this topic

(at least intellectually); it forces practitioners to really consider the

MOA of each herb to determine how that MOA will be affected by cooking

method.

 

- For efficacy's sake should these be boiled if they dissolve nearly

completely in water? If so, how long, and how many times?

 

- I assume that skipping the >5 minute boil will result in unsanitized

herbs? How unclean are raw herbs from China, and how big of an impact is it

to quaff them unboiled?

 

- Some have commented that skipping the boil will prevent accessing some of

the nutrients, e.g. ren shen. That may be true but I'm not convinced.

These herbs literally disappear in the water, there's no worry about

penetrating tough root material. Can the same wisdom apply to bones,

shells, and minerals? My concern about this aspect of cooking is whether or

not a chemical change is actuated by sustained heat, thus requiring it.

 

- My final cooking method concern is whether any toxic compounds bound in

the plant fiber will be released upon grinding and cooking. Could a

previously safe herb release a Pandora's box of whoop ass once the plant

fiber is pulverized?

[Guest guest]

On Feb 7, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Tim Sharpe wrote:

> - My final cooking method concern is whether any toxic compounds

> bound in

> the plant fiber will be released upon grinding and cooking. Could a

> previously safe herb release a Pandora's box of whoop ass once the

> plant

> fiber is pulverized?

 

This would be my biggest concern since with grinding we are ingesting

all compounds. There can be many inorganic solvents not hydrated by

water, so during a decoction they remain in the herb instead of

dispersing in the water. What is released during a decoction depends

on the hydrophilic/lipophilic ratio of the compounds, but in general

many of the well known chemicals are lipophilic. If they get ground

into a powder you are ingesting all the hydrophilic and lipophilic

compounds.

 

(I believe that paper released 8 months ago by Saper et al. reporting

heavy metals found in Ayurvedic herbs used the ground raw herbs.

This is the way Banyan distributes their powdered Ayurvedic herbs and

back some 5 years Banyan did not guarantee any CA on herb safety.)

 

--george

[Guest guest]

, George Mandler

<gmandler wrote:

>>

> This would be my biggest concern since with grinding we are

ingesting

> all compounds. There can be many inorganic solvents not hydrated

by

> water, so during a decoction they remain in the herb instead of

> dispersing in the water. What is released during a decoction

depends

> on the hydrophilic/lipophilic ratio of the compounds, but in

general

> many of the well known chemicals are lipophilic. If they get ground

> into a powder you are ingesting all the hydrophilic and lipophilic

> compounds.

 

Though decoction is the status quo these days, many, many traditional

formulas were pills and powders (just look at the names with " wan "

and " san " at the end in Benksy). Those formulas are decocted now, but

were originally designed to have the herbs ground and taken as a draft

or ground and made into pills.

 

Therefore, it probably can be assumed that all of the various herbs

used in the various formulas that were traditionally powders or pills

should still be safe to use in a ground form.

 

Does anyone care to take the time to go through Bensky and itemize

every herb in a " wan " or " san " formula?

 

 

Brian C. Allen

[Guest guest]

I expect that heavy metals and organic chemicals are largely products of the

industrial revolution. Their safety cannot be assumed today with the myriad

of chemical pollution that we are now faced with. Also I assume that ground

herbs back then did not so utterly destroy the plant fiber as does today's

grinding. I've only used the industrial " blender " style grinders, and even

those don't approach the powder consistency from mayway. I think this is

why the efficacy of the herbs is so great. I've had patients switch from

raw to powdered raw (from 1 bag every other day to 1 equal bag every 7-10

days) with much improved results.

 

-Tim Sharpe

 

, bcataiji wrote:

 

Though decoction is the status quo these days, many, many traditional

formulas were pills and powders (just look at the names with " wan "

and " san " at the end in Benksy). Those formulas are decocted now, but

were originally designed to have the herbs ground and taken as a draft

or ground and made into pills.

 

Therefore, it probably can be assumed that all of the various herbs

used in the various formulas that were traditionally powders or pills

should still be safe to use in a ground form.