Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi Deb, & All, Deb, fascinating stuff. If burning moxa can rid external demons, we can all use it because all of us know some friend, colleague, family member of client with those demons. Have any other Listers had experience (good or bad) of effects induced by burning moxa away from the body as distinct from on / over specific acupoints? Best regards, Deb wrote: > Six weeks ago I was struck with an inspiration to give a wad of moxa > wool to a patient who was experiencing terrible grief and despair > following the traumatic and quite horrible sudden death of her > partner, with instruction to make it into small cones, put it on a > non-flammable surface, light it with an incense stick, and use it as > an incense when she was feeling overwhelmed. It worked like a miracle > - she called a couple of days later to tell me that the effect was > immediate and profound: it calmed her down, dissipated the evil part > of the grief, anxiety and depression, and let her move into a space > where she could grieve in a way she felt was productive and heartfull > and not just frantic and out of control. > I tried it again a couple of weeks ago, this time with a teenager who > is in chronic pain from an old neck injury (afraid of needles, won't > come for acupuncture), whose first boyfriend had just experienced a > trauma that threatened to paralyze him, and whose father, a life-long > alcoholic, has recently stopped drinking but as a result is dealing, > not particularly gracefully or privately, with his addiction demons. > The teen's mother called me, desperate one day - her kid was having > nearly hysterical bouts of fear and grief and anxiety, not sleeping, > etc. Western drugs prescribed for the condition had simply made her > condition worse. I gave her a handful of moxa wool with the same > instructions. She called me back half an hour later to report that the > minute she lit it the teenager, who had been screaming and crying, > stopped, said, " Oh, that's good, " took the moxa cone into her room, and > did her homework. That night after burning a second cone she slept > through for the first time in several weeks. The effect continues. > Can anyone tell me why this is working? It seems, from the descriptions > I'm getting, to pull the scattered qi together and allow the shen to > calm and settle. The mind becomes focussed and anxiety and fear is > expelled. Neither reports a deadening of feelings, but rather that the > feelings become the right size to experience without taking over. Can > anyone see any dangers in using moxa this way (besides the obvious one > of fire!) ---Deb Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 , " " < wrote: > Have any other Listers had experience (good or bad) of effects induced > by burning moxa away from the body as distinct from on / over specific > acupoints? Yes, it always sickened me. I did not have much choice burning moxa in the school clinic while working on patients, but I do not do it in my own practice. The smoke dried out my eyes and my throat, often making my throat irritated as well. It stuffed up my nose and made thick, hard to expel mucous in my throat. It also fatigued me. ....not good stuff I see no good reason to make a patient breathe in the smoke if some other method of heating can easily be used in a case where heat stimulus may be warranted. Of course, the previous posts bring up some interesting reasons, but consider this: 1. Time heals all wounds (well not really, but you get the point). People with temporary emotional problems get better with time and may often attribute something new in their life as the effector. 2. Placebo effect...people think they are going to do something good (mystical, from another culture, prescribe by an authority they trust) and so it does them good. 3. Creating " healing space " - sort of like in wicca traditions. People write down a problem, then do a little ritual and burn the paper. The " magic " is just that the person took some specific time to face their problem and give it some thought. If someone is taking time to make moxa cones and burn them, they are probably thinking about why they are making them and burning them, and breathing it in. It's forcing them to face the issue. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi Brian, This sounds like you have an allergy, which all of us don't have. I suggest you look into how quickly chemicals are brought directly to the nerves in the brain, into the lungs. It only takes a little bit. Research has shown that this class of herbs all over the world, culture after culture, show the same description of function- 'Chase away evil spirits'. Just because the terms spirit doesn't have much scientific use, doesn't mean that many cultures around the world aren't feeling something very similar in some psysiological-psychological way. You obviously are affected negatively and that is an effect, not a placebo response at all. Too bad you have such a negative reaction. I have some clients that i won't use artemesia with because of sensitivities. Rozz - bcataiji <bcataiji Monday, February 13, 2006 1:49 pm Re: Moxa to Expel/Calm Demons > , " " > < wrote: > > Have any other Listers had experience (good or bad) of effects > induced > > by burning moxa away from the body as distinct from on / over > specific > > acupoints? > > Yes, it always sickened me. I did not have much choice burning > moxa > in the school clinic while working on patients, but I do not do it > in my own practice. > > The smoke dried out my eyes and my throat, often making my throat > irritated as well. It stuffed up my nose and made thick, hard to > expel mucous in my throat. It also fatigued me. > > ...not good stuff > > I see no good reason to make a patient breathe in the smoke if some > other method of heating can easily be used in a case where heat > stimulus may be warranted. > > Of course, the previous posts bring up some interesting reasons, > but > consider this: > 1. Time heals all wounds (well not really, but you get the point). > > People with temporary emotional problems get better with time and > may often attribute something new in their life as the effector. > 2. Placebo effect...people think they are going to do something > good (mystical, from another culture, prescribe by an authority > they > trust) and so it does them good. > 3. Creating " healing space " - sort of like in wicca traditions. > People write down a problem, then do a little ritual and burn the > paper. The " magic " is just that the person took some specific time > to face their problem and give it some thought. If someone is > taking time to make moxa cones and burn them, they are probably > thinking about why they are making them and burning them, and > breathing it in. It's forcing them to face the issue. > > Brian C. Allen > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Well, I have to concur that most moxa I began to find irritating after a few years of practice. It would usually give me a headache. The difference in grades may make a slight difference. Same with most incenses. There is a health store near here that always burns that sweet " Tibetan " type incense now so popular that I have come to find quite sickening. Even when it is not on, the smell lingers and I find it cloying. IIRC, a few years ago i read something about most incenses having lead. I think that revelation has led to some improvements in that issue, since some incenses make note of their " purity " on the label. But as to moxa, when I feel it useful to use it I use the " Little Smoke Moxa " brand, no longer really available, since it is somewhat difficult to use safely(sometimes sparks or breaks). But I use it mainly b/c it has, well, little smoke with a very light aroma and never seems to bother me. (I bought up a bunch when the distributor at the time said they were disco-ing it.) Still, what Fernando is doing sounds neat. I wouldn't mind whiffing a sample if he'd like to put a few pinches in an envelope. :-) I do have an attraction to things sagey and such. This might be the one to get me back to liking incense again..... Ann , " " < wrote: > Have any other Listers had experience (good or bad) of effects induced > by burning moxa away from the body as distinct from on / over specific > acupoints? Yes, it always sickened me. I did not have much choice burning moxa in the school clinic while working on patients, but I do not do it in my own practice. The smoke dried out my eyes and my throat, often making my throat irritated as well. It stuffed up my nose and made thick, hard to expel mucous in my throat. It also fatigued me. ...not good stuff I see no good reason to make a patient breathe in the smoke if some other method of heating can easily be used in a case where heat stimulus may be warranted. Of course, the previous posts bring up some interesting reasons, but consider this: 1. Time heals all wounds (well not really, but you get the point). People with temporary emotional problems get better with time and may often attribute something new in their life as the effector. 2. Placebo effect...people think they are going to do something good (mystical, from another culture, prescribe by an authority they trust) and so it does them good. 3. Creating " healing space " - sort of like in wicca traditions. People write down a problem, then do a little ritual and burn the paper. The " magic " is just that the person took some specific time to face their problem and give it some thought. If someone is taking time to make moxa cones and burn them, they are probably thinking about why they are making them and burning them, and breathing it in. It's forcing them to face the issue. Brian C. Allen ---------- Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.7/259 - Release 2/13/06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Hey guys, what do you think the Eight Principle action here would be? I mean Deb's patient sounds like they have mostly deficient to me, wonder if the same thing would work with repletion cases? Deb can I ask what kind of moxa cone you used? -Li On 2/13/06, Rozz Lieght <Rusty7 wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > This sounds like you have an allergy, which all of us don't have. I > suggest you look into how quickly chemicals are brought directly to the > nerves in the brain, into the lungs. It only takes a little bit. Research > has shown that this class of herbs all over the world, culture after > culture, show the same description of function- 'Chase away evil spirits'. > Just because the terms spirit doesn't have much scientific use, doesn't mean > that many cultures around the world aren't feeling something very similar in > some psysiological-psychological way. You obviously are affected > negatively and that is an effect, not a placebo response at all. > > Too bad you have such a negative reaction. I have some clients that i > won't use artemesia with because of sensitivities. > > Rozz > > > - > bcataiji <bcataiji > Monday, February 13, 2006 1:49 pm > Re: Moxa to Expel/Calm Demons > > > > , " " > > < wrote: > > > Have any other Listers had experience (good or bad) of effects > > induced > > > by burning moxa away from the body as distinct from on / over > > specific > > > acupoints? > > > > Yes, it always sickened me. I did not have much choice burning > > moxa > > in the school clinic while working on patients, but I do not do it > > in my own practice. > > > > The smoke dried out my eyes and my throat, often making my throat > > irritated as well. It stuffed up my nose and made thick, hard to > > expel mucous in my throat. It also fatigued me. > > > > ...not good stuff > > > > I see no good reason to make a patient breathe in the smoke if some > > other method of heating can easily be used in a case where heat > > stimulus may be warranted. > > > > Of course, the previous posts bring up some interesting reasons, > > but > > consider this: > > 1. Time heals all wounds (well not really, but you get the point). > > > > People with temporary emotional problems get better with time and > > may often attribute something new in their life as the effector. > > 2. Placebo effect...people think they are going to do something > > good (mystical, from another culture, prescribe by an authority > > they > > trust) and so it does them good. > > 3. Creating " healing space " - sort of like in wicca traditions. > > People write down a problem, then do a little ritual and burn the > > paper. The " magic " is just that the person took some specific time > > to face their problem and give it some thought. If someone is > > taking time to make moxa cones and burn them, they are probably > > thinking about why they are making them and burning them, and > > breathing it in. It's forcing them to face the issue. > > > > Brian C. Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 When I use moxa on my patients (stick form or smoke-free stick form), I get headaches and I get overheated. I will also get headaches from any kind of smoke - this is true since I spent a vacation weekend a few years ago where wildfires were burning nearby. bcataiji <bcataiji wrote: , " " < wrote: > Have any other Listers had experience (good or bad) of effects induced > by burning moxa away from the body as distinct from on / over specific > acupoints? Yes, it always sickened me. I did not have much choice burning moxa in the school clinic while working on patients, but I do not do it in my own practice. The smoke dried out my eyes and my throat, often making my throat irritated as well. It stuffed up my nose and made thick, hard to expel mucous in my throat. It also fatigued me. ....not good stuff I see no good reason to make a patient breathe in the smoke if some other method of heating can easily be used in a case where heat stimulus may be warranted. Of course, the previous posts bring up some interesting reasons, but consider this: 1. Time heals all wounds (well not really, but you get the point). People with temporary emotional problems get better with time and may often attribute something new in their life as the effector. 2. Placebo effect...people think they are going to do something good (mystical, from another culture, prescribe by an authority they trust) and so it does them good. 3. Creating " healing space " - sort of like in wicca traditions. People write down a problem, then do a little ritual and burn the paper. The " magic " is just that the person took some specific time to face their problem and give it some thought. If someone is taking time to make moxa cones and burn them, they are probably thinking about why they are making them and burning them, and breathing it in. It's forcing them to face the issue. Brian C. Allen Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hi Li, the moxa I used was the rough loose wool that sqeezes nicely into a cone but doesn't make a good ball. Re: the patients I've given it to so far, the grieving one has a lot of deficiency, but the teenager is a messy mix of deficiency/excess. It would be interesting to know if it also works for excess patients. ---Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Thanks for getting back to me Deb. Yeah absolutely, especially since a lot of the signs from people on the list that were saying they feel terrible from inhaling moxa smoke sound like very repletion signs. Cheers Lionel On 2/17/06, Deb Marshall <taichideb wrote: > > Hi Li, > > the moxa I used was the rough loose wool that sqeezes nicely into a cone > but doesn't make a good ball. > > Re: the patients I've given it to so far, the grieving one has a lot of > deficiency, but the teenager is a messy mix of deficiency/excess. It would > be interesting to know if it also works for excess patients. > > ---Deb > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.