Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Jason, once again congrats on the newest Latern article. I was reading it again today and had a comment about the Herb analysis on page 36 - which I assume are yours and Charles's. Under the visit 4 chart you write that " Lian Qiao shifts the pathogen from the nutrtive aspect back outward to the qi aspect. " Another interpretation might be in that our colleague at Emperor's, Tiande Yang, uses Lian Qiao as one of his major food stagnation herbs. The imagery I believe is the lifting action takes away the burden of the heavy food. This gives space for other food stagnation herbs to work. So because Niu Bang Zi, next listed, also promotes bowel moment then this formula may have more in common with the food stagnation diagnosis than is given credit in that visit. Just a thought, doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 This is simplistic, but when I was in china, my teacher said that lian qiao was in bao he wan to clear heat and remove lumps. Because of its shape. But I like you suggestion of lifting. Cara > Jason, once again congrats on the newest Latern article. I was reading it > again today and had > a comment about the Herb analysis on page 36 - which I assume are yours and > Charles's. > Under the visit 4 chart you write that " Lian Qiao shifts the pathogen from the > nutrtive aspect > back outward to the qi aspect. " Another interpretation might be in that our > colleague at > Emperor's, Tiande Yang, uses Lian Qiao as one of his major food stagnation > herbs. The > imagery I believe is the lifting action takes away the burden of the heavy > food. This gives > space for other food stagnation herbs to work. So because Niu Bang Zi, next > listed, also > promotes bowel moment then this formula may have more in common with the food > stagnation diagnosis than is given credit in that visit. > Just a thought, > doug Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board > approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free > discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 This too... doug , Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > > This is simplistic, but when I was in china, my teacher said that lian qiao > was in bao he wan to clear heat and remove lumps. Because of its shape. But > I like you suggestion of lifting. > > Cara > > > > > > Jason, once again congrats on the newest Latern article. I was reading it > > again today and had > > a comment about the Herb analysis on page 36 - which I assume are yours and > > Charles's. > > Under the visit 4 chart you write that " Lian Qiao shifts the pathogen from the > > nutrtive aspect > > back outward to the qi aspect. " Another interpretation might be in that our > > colleague at > > Emperor's, Tiande Yang, uses Lian Qiao as one of his major food stagnation > > herbs. The > > imagery I believe is the lifting action takes away the burden of the heavy > > food. This gives > > space for other food stagnation herbs to work. So because Niu Bang Zi, next > > listed, also > > promotes bowel moment then this formula may have more in common with the food > > stagnation diagnosis than is given credit in that visit. > > Just a thought, > > doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board > > approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free > > discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Doug, Thanx for your comments, I will consider this stance. I wonder why though you feel that food stagnation is being addressed in visit 4, the s/s, the commentary, and the formula do not indicate food stagnation. I also do question that Lian qiao by itself (or even with niu bang zi) is enough to address food stagnation. Although your colleague likes lian qiao for food stagnation, this is not unusual, for it is in Baohewan. But IMO it's function in baohewan is not about eliminating the food stagnation, but a more secondary function, due to its heat and toxin relieving ability, or its light ascending lifting quality, as you say. But this nature of lian qiao enables it to address multiple scenarios/ patterns, but it does not mean that all those patterns are able to be addressed ALONE with lian qiao. The question becomes does your colleague use lian qiao by itself to treat food stagnation? OR have you seen a reputable source discuss this function? I have not seen lian qiao recommended in modifications of formulas for food stagnation and I have not seen it in materia medicas with this function. Do you have some sources that represent this view? Also Niu bang zi does promote the bowels, but this combo (with lian qiao) is usually thought of for sore throat, and I have never seen it for food stagnation. Now if there were other actual food stagnation herbs present then I would say, you were right on, but as is, I am unsure that there is much food stagnation involvement.. Comments? - > > > On Behalf Of > Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:18 AM > > Lurking comments > > Jason, once again congrats on the newest Latern article. I was reading it > again today and had > a comment about the Herb analysis on page 36 - which I assume are yours > and Charles's. > Under the visit 4 chart you write that " Lian Qiao shifts the pathogen from > the nutrtive aspect > back outward to the qi aspect. " Another interpretation might be in that > our colleague at > Emperor's, Tiande Yang, uses Lian Qiao as one of his major food stagnation > herbs. The > imagery I believe is the lifting action takes away the burden of the heavy > food. This gives > space for other food stagnation herbs to work. So because Niu Bang Zi, > next listed, also > promotes bowel moment then this formula may have more in common with the > food > stagnation diagnosis than is given credit in that visit. > Just a thought, > doug Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a > free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 > > > On Behalf Of > Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:18 AM > > Lurking comments > > Jason, once again congrats on the newest Latern article. I was reading it > again today and had > a comment about the Herb analysis on page 36 - which I assume are yours > and Charles's. > Under the visit 4 chart you write that " Lian Qiao shifts the pathogen from > the nutrtive aspect > back outward to the qi aspect. " Another interpretation might be in that > our colleague at > Emperor's, Tiande Yang, uses Lian Qiao as one of his major food stagnation > herbs. The > imagery I believe is the lifting action takes away the burden of the heavy > food. This gives > space for other food stagnation herbs to work. So because Niu Bang Zi, > next listed, Actually if you check the Chinese, the list of herbs is as follows: Xi jiao, xian di sheng, lian qiao, xuan shen, niu bang zi... -Jason also > promotes bowel moment then this formula may have more in common with the > food > stagnation diagnosis than is given credit in that visit. > Just a thought, > doug Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a > free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 I've was as confused about the food stagnation qualities of lian qiao but this doctor used enough that I asked a few times about it. Although he rarely uses any herb on its own without a dui yao, lian qiao was usually his first choice in concert with a supporting herb. Just briefly i saw this line from the on-line Lantern: " Anyway Lian Qiao has the following properties which make it more appropriate for a mild case of pent-up damp turning hot: its fragrant aroma can awaken Spleen its weight is light, with a pungent flavour these qualities can disperse and lead pent-up heat out through the surface while restoring normal qi flow " http://www.thelantern.com.au/article_detail.php?id=1 That fragrant aroma line caught my eye.... If I can run across another source I'll let you know. Hopefully before the next issue comes out. We still don't know if the guy lives or dies! :-) doug , " " wrote: > > Doug, > > Thanx for your comments, I will consider this stance. I wonder why though > you feel that food stagnation is being addressed in visit 4, the s/s, the > commentary, and the formula do not indicate food stagnation. I also do > question that Lian qiao by itself (or even with niu bang zi) is enough to > address food stagnation. Although your colleague likes lian qiao for food > stagnation, this is not unusual, for it is in Baohewan. But IMO it's > function in baohewan is not about eliminating the food stagnation, but a > more secondary function, due to its heat and toxin relieving ability, or its > light ascending lifting quality, as you say. But this nature of lian qiao > enables it to address multiple scenarios/ patterns, but it does not mean > that all those patterns are able to be addressed ALONE with lian qiao. The > question becomes does your colleague use lian qiao by itself to treat food > stagnation? OR have you seen a reputable source discuss this function? I > have not seen lian qiao recommended in modifications of formulas for food > stagnation and I have not seen it in materia medicas with this function. Do > you have some sources that represent this view? Also Niu bang zi does > promote the bowels, but this combo (with lian qiao) is usually thought of > for sore throat, and I have never seen it for food stagnation. Now if there > were other actual food stagnation herbs present then I would say, you were > right on, but as is, I am unsure that there is much food stagnation > involvement.. Comments? > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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