Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Any thoughts to why symptoms would increase at night in a Yin-def patients as night time when Yin is fullest? Makes more sense that Yang-def symptoms would increase. Obviously a yin pathogen would cause more symptoms early in morning as yin accumulates, but why would empty-fire increase at night? Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Alon, I think this has to do with the yang that circulates on the surface of the body traveling inwards at night, and then taking advantage of the body's deficient yin (/heat) and creating i.e. night sweats / heat etc... -Jason > > > On Behalf Of > Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:03 PM > > Re: Yin Def > > Any thoughts to why symptoms would increase at night in a Yin-def patients > as night time when Yin is fullest? Makes more sense that Yang-def symptoms > would increase. Obviously a yin pathogen would cause more symptoms early > in morning as yin accumulates, but why would empty-fire increase at night? > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Jason, I understand this reasoning, but why don't we associate night time more with def yang s/s as these should also increase when yin i full? Oakland, CA 94609 - Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:10 AM RE: Yin Def Alon, I think this has to do with the yang that circulates on the surface of the body traveling inwards at night, and then taking advantage of the body's deficient yin (/heat) and creating i.e. night sweats / heat etc... -Jason > > > On Behalf Of > Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:03 PM > > Re: Yin Def > > Any thoughts to why symptoms would increase at night in a Yin-def patients > as night time when Yin is fullest? Makes more sense that Yang-def symptoms > would increase. Obviously a yin pathogen would cause more symptoms early > in morning as yin accumulates, but why would empty-fire increase at night? > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 At night, when the wei qi retreats to the internal organs, the ability to keep inappropriate sweating in check is compromised due to the relative lack of wei qi available at the surface. This is a mechanism for any nightime sweating. It could be deficiency heat, or damp heat, or blood stagnation heat... So I don't think that the empty-fire increases at night, but rather the restraining mechanisms decrease. As for the hot flashes, not sure about the mechanism on that. This is sourced to Dr. Yi Qiao (my writing partner) and her numerous Chinese language sources, not sure which. -al. On 2/28/06, <alonmarcus wrote: > > Any thoughts to why symptoms would increase at night in a Yin-def > patients as night time when Yin is fullest? Makes more sense that Yang-def > symptoms would increase. Obviously a yin pathogen would cause more symptoms > early in morning as yin accumulates, but why would empty-fire increase at > night? -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 This seems like elementary and simplistic at first, but really a fascinating topic. Allons. The general simple logic I always imbibed was that yin is SUPPOSED to be full at night. If it cannot be full and 'full-fill' its role properly, then yang Sx take over. If yang is deficient, it too will not be 'full-filling' anything, let alone rise at night. If yin IS full, it is able to subdue yang. All the moreso if yang is def., weak, er, unfullfilling. So it's a matter of timing, circadian stuff. So the active outer yang has to be quiescent so the inner hidden activity of the body can proceed. Like liver activity happening while we sleep. (Sorta combining west/east, which as we know is MSU; i stand abashed.) timidly, ann Jason, I understand this reasoning, but why don't we associate night time more with def yang s/s as these should also increase when yin i full? Alon, I think this has to do with the yang that circulates on the surface of the body traveling inwards at night, and then taking advantage of the body's deficient yin (/heat) and creating i.e. night sweats / heat etc... -Jason > > Any thoughts to why symptoms would increase at night in a Yin-def patients > as night time when Yin is fullest? Makes more sense that Yang-def symptoms > would increase. Obviously a yin pathogen would cause more symptoms early > in morning as yin accumulates, but why would empty-fire increase at night? > > ---------- Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release 2/28/06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 oops, i take that partially back. There is such a thing as deficient yang sweating, isn't there? By that framing, the yang is so deficient the wei cannot even hold the pores in proper tone. (MSU alert: The way i think of this one is where the yang is so weak the adrenals are trying to take a last stand for the yang, in other words trying to cover all the bases of other yang functions and inc. heart rate, peripheral vasodilation, etc. result). More please sir, ann This seems like elementary and simplistic at first, but really a fascinating topic. Allons. The general simple logic I always imbibed was that yin is SUPPOSED to be full at night. If it cannot be full and 'full-fill' its role properly, then yang Sx take over. If yang is deficient, it too will not be 'full-filling' anything, let alone rise at night. If yin IS full, it is able to subdue yang. All the moreso if yang is def., weak, er, unfullfilling. So it's a matter of timing, circadian stuff. So the active outer yang has to be quiescent so the inner hidden activity of the body can proceed. Like liver activity happening while we sleep. (Sorta combining west/east, which as we know is MSU; i stand abashed.) timidly, ann Jason, I understand this reasoning, but why don't we associate night time more with def yang s/s as these should also increase when yin i full? Alon, I think this has to do with the yang that circulates on the surface of the body traveling inwards at night, and then taking advantage of the body's deficient yin (/heat) and creating i.e. night sweats / heat etc... -Jason > > Any thoughts to why symptoms would increase at night in a Yin-def patients > as night time when Yin is fullest? Makes more sense that Yang-def symptoms > would increase. Obviously a yin pathogen would cause more symptoms early > in morning as yin accumulates, but why would empty-fire increase at night? > > ---------- Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release 2/28/06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Why is it that we do not associate more yang-def s/s with night time? Oakland, CA 94609 - Al Stone Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:08 PM Re: Yin Def At night, when the wei qi retreats to the internal organs, the ability to keep inappropriate sweating in check is compromised due to the relative lack of wei qi available at the surface. This is a mechanism for any nightime sweating. It could be deficiency heat, or damp heat, or blood stagnation heat... So I don't think that the empty-fire increases at night, but rather the restraining mechanisms decrease. As for the hot flashes, not sure about the mechanism on that. This is sourced to Dr. Yi Qiao (my writing partner) and her numerous Chinese language sources, not sure which. -al. On 2/28/06, <alonmarcus wrote: > > Any thoughts to why symptoms would increase at night in a Yin-def > patients as night time when Yin is fullest? Makes more sense that Yang-def > symptoms would increase. Obviously a yin pathogen would cause more symptoms > early in morning as yin accumulates, but why would empty-fire increase at > night? -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 > Why is it that we do not associate more yang-def s/s with night time? This is just a hunch, but it would seem that yang xu s/s would show up when yang is being used. If a yang xu person is exercising, he may have the yang xu sweating. What is yang being used for while sleeping? Answer that question and then you will be able to figure out the corresponding s/s associated with yang xu that should show up more at night. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 It is my understanding that yang def. sweating is qi deficiency sweating and so occurs at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 I have seen ref to symptoms increasing at night due to yang-def, i wander however why it is not more common Oakland, CA 94609 - snakeoil.works Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:52 PM Re: Yin Def oops, i take that partially back. There is such a thing as deficient yang sweating, isn't there? By that framing, the yang is so deficient the wei cannot even hold the pores in proper tone. (MSU alert: The way i think of this one is where the yang is so weak the adrenals are trying to take a last stand for the yang, in other words trying to cover all the bases of other yang functions and inc. heart rate, peripheral vasodilation, etc. result). More please sir, ann This seems like elementary and simplistic at first, but really a fascinating topic. Allons. The general simple logic I always imbibed was that yin is SUPPOSED to be full at night. If it cannot be full and 'full-fill' its role properly, then yang Sx take over. If yang is deficient, it too will not be 'full-filling' anything, let alone rise at night. If yin IS full, it is able to subdue yang. All the moreso if yang is def., weak, er, unfullfilling. So it's a matter of timing, circadian stuff. So the active outer yang has to be quiescent so the inner hidden activity of the body can proceed. Like liver activity happening while we sleep. (Sorta combining west/east, which as we know is MSU; i stand abashed.) timidly, ann Jason, I understand this reasoning, but why don't we associate night time more with def yang s/s as these should also increase when yin i full? Alon, I think this has to do with the yang that circulates on the surface of the body traveling inwards at night, and then taking advantage of the body's deficient yin (/heat) and creating i.e. night sweats / heat etc... -Jason > > Any thoughts to why symptoms would increase at night in a Yin-def patients > as night time when Yin is fullest? Makes more sense that Yang-def symptoms > would increase. Obviously a yin pathogen would cause more symptoms early > in morning as yin accumulates, but why would empty-fire increase at night? > > ---------- Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release 2/28/06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Brian Most ref i have seen throughout the years to yang-def s/s and night were based on timing and lack of yin-def s/s. they have included various systems. Oakland, CA 94609 - bcataiji Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:55 PM Re: Yin Def > Why is it that we do not associate more yang-def s/s with night time? This is just a hunch, but it would seem that yang xu s/s would show up when yang is being used. If a yang xu person is exercising, he may have the yang xu sweating. What is yang being used for while sleeping? Answer that question and then you will be able to figure out the corresponding s/s associated with yang xu that should show up more at night. Brian C. Allen Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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