re: suggestions anyone - cancer patient

[Guest guest]

Deb,

I have a couple of suggestions: not Chinese herbs, but strategies that

might help:

Slippery elm ( or ba ji- bletilla) contains a lot of mucilage. This is

extremely helpful for repairing the gut and I know of no side effects. It

will create a soothing, slimy barrier in her gut. That is, if you can get it

in her.

 

Also Kefir is superior for this as well: it creates a kind of positive

dampness. Like a yin bed in the guts to allow good bacteria to colonize.

Kefir is different than yogurt: it contains a different strain of bacteria.

 

Best of luck,

 

Cara

 

 

 

> Are,

>

> Do you have any info available on-line re:your cancer tx? It seems I'm getting

> a rash of cancer px lately.

>

> Everyone: the patient I described 3 days ago has deteriorated significantly in

> that time: apparently the lining of the intestines, destroyed during the

> chemo, hasn't regenerated so the food she's getting via stomach tube isn't

> doing much good; they tried a partially digested mix today, it made the

> abdominal cramps much worse. Also, the staph infection she got in the hospital

> appears to be regrouping and affecting her throat and lungs - they're

> expecting another onset of pneumonia, she's gurgling on in-breath, and

> speaking is becoming very difficult, as is taking anything by mouth, she has

> aspirated fluids several times. UTI is not abating. She's on a morphine pump

> for the pain, but has said she doesn't want more treatment except acupuncture.

> She was in a drug-induced sleep state today, didn't even wake when I treated

> her. Skin is dusky, lips slightly cyanotic, tips of toes slightly blue as

> well. Tongue not visible, retracted. Pulses all fast, tiny, soft, kidney

> pulses deep, lung and heart floating and the irregularity has disappeared.

>

> The MDs are pretty much at road's end; has anyone treated someone this sick? I

> am uncertain whether to encourage her partner to push the MDs to cooperate

> with naturopathic and/or TCM medicinals - it should be possible in this

> hospital as both I and a naturopath have hospital privileges and the western

> staff mostly supports " alternative " medicine. She's a friend as well as a

> patient and she would be open to herbal medicines (as a rule responds much

> better to them than pharmaceuticals) but I don't want to encourage extending

> her suffering longer if it's not reasonable to believe it might turn things

> around. Does anyone have experience or even educated opinions? The severity of

> her case is far beyond anything I've ever treated.

>

> Thanks

>

> Deb Marshall

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would add l-glutamine (sometimes just referred to as 'glutamine'). Best in

powder form. It is the preferred fuel for the gut lining and preferentially

withdrawn from there in times of stress. It is the most prevalent amino acid in

muscle so is important for rebuilding muscle mass. Also precursor to

glutathione, I believe, as well as growth hormone. Pretty essential really.

 

Start with 1 tsp. tid and increase dose steadily. Doses discussed can range up

to 10 g, or even 20. No side effects have been recorded AFAIK, esp. when dose is

begun as above. Can be combined with water or any other drink, like fruit juice,

smoothies, etc.

 

ann

 

Deb,

I have a couple of suggestions: not Chinese herbs, but strategies that

might help:

Slippery elm ( or ba ji- bletilla) contains a lot of mucilage. This is

extremely helpful for repairing the gut and I know of no side effects. It

will create a soothing, slimy barrier in her gut. That is, if you can get it

in her.

 

Also Kefir is superior for this as well: it creates a kind of positive

dampness. Like a yin bed in the guts to allow good bacteria to colonize.

Kefir is different than yogurt: it contains a different strain of bacteria.

 

Best of luck,

 

Cara

 

 

 

> Are,

>

> Do you have any info available on-line re:your cancer tx? It seems I'm

getting

> a rash of cancer px lately.

>

> Everyone: the patient I described 3 days ago has deteriorated significantly

in

> that time: apparently the lining of the intestines, destroyed during the

> chemo, hasn't regenerated so the food she's getting via stomach tube isn't

> doing much good; they tried a partially digested mix today, it made the

> abdominal cramps much worse. Also, the staph infection she got in the

hospital

> appears to be regrouping and affecting her throat and lungs - they're

> expecting another onset of pneumonia, she's gurgling on in-breath, and

> speaking is becoming very difficult, as is taking anything by mouth, she has

> aspirated fluids several times. UTI is not abating. She's on a morphine pump

> for the pain, but has said she doesn't want more treatment except

acupuncture.

> She was in a drug-induced sleep state today, didn't even wake when I treated

> her. Skin is dusky, lips slightly cyanotic, tips of toes slightly blue as

> well. Tongue not visible, retracted. Pulses all fast, tiny, soft, kidney

> pulses deep, lung and heart floating and the irregularity has disappeared.

>

> The MDs are pretty much at road's end; has anyone treated someone this sick?

I

> am uncertain whether to encourage her partner to push the MDs to cooperate

> with naturopathic and/or TCM medicinals - it should be possible in this

> hospital as both I and a naturopath have hospital privileges and the western

> staff mostly supports " alternative " medicine. She's a friend as well as a

> patient and she would be open to herbal medicines (as a rule responds much

> better to them than pharmaceuticals) but I don't want to encourage extending

> her suffering longer if it's not reasonable to believe it might turn things

> around. Does anyone have experience or even educated opinions? The severity

of

> her case is far beyond anything I've ever treated.

>

> Thanks

>

> Deb Marshall

----------

 

 

 

Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release 3/3/06

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

yes: glutamine is excellent. Metagenics makes a great one called Glutagenics

with aloe and DGL in it

Cara

 

 

 

 

> I would add l-glutamine (sometimes just referred to as 'glutamine'). Best in

> powder form. It is the preferred fuel for the gut lining and preferentially

> withdrawn from there in times of stress. It is the most prevalent amino acid

> in muscle so is important for rebuilding muscle mass. Also precursor to

> glutathione, I believe, as well as growth hormone. Pretty essential really.

>

> Start with 1 tsp. tid and increase dose steadily. Doses discussed can range up

> to 10 g, or even 20. No side effects have been recorded AFAIK, esp. when dose

> is begun as above. Can be combined with water or any other drink, like fruit

> juice, smoothies, etc.

>

> ann

>

> Deb,

> I have a couple of suggestions: not Chinese herbs, but strategies that

> might help:

> Slippery elm ( or ba ji- bletilla) contains a lot of mucilage. This is

> extremely helpful for repairing the gut and I know of no side effects. It

> will create a soothing, slimy barrier in her gut. That is, if you can get it

> in her.

>

> Also Kefir is superior for this as well: it creates a kind of positive

> dampness. Like a yin bed in the guts to allow good bacteria to colonize.

> Kefir is different than yogurt: it contains a different strain of bacteria.

>

> Best of luck,

>

> Cara

>

>

>

>> > Are,

>> >

>> > Do you have any info available on-line re:your cancer tx? It seems I'm

>> getting

>> > a rash of cancer px lately.

>> >

>> > Everyone: the patient I described 3 days ago has deteriorated

>> significantly in

>> > that time: apparently the lining of the intestines, destroyed during the

>> > chemo, hasn't regenerated so the food she's getting via stomach tube >>

isn't

>> > doing much good; they tried a partially digested mix today, it made the

>> > abdominal cramps much worse. Also, the staph infection she got in the

>> hospital

>> > appears to be regrouping and affecting her throat and lungs - they're

>> > expecting another onset of pneumonia, she's gurgling on in-breath, and

>> > speaking is becoming very difficult, as is taking anything by mouth, she

has

>> > aspirated fluids several times. UTI is not abating. She's on a morphine

>> pump

>> > for the pain, but has said she doesn't want more treatment except

>> acupuncture.

>> > She was in a drug-induced sleep state today, didn't even wake when I

>> treated

>> > her. Skin is dusky, lips slightly cyanotic, tips of toes slightly blue as

>> > well. Tongue not visible, retracted. Pulses all fast, tiny, soft, kidney

>> > pulses deep, lung and heart floating and the irregularity has

>> disappeared.

>> >

>> > The MDs are pretty much at road's end; has anyone treated someone this

>> sick? I

>> > am uncertain whether to encourage her partner to push the MDs to

>> cooperate

>> > with naturopathic and/or TCM medicinals - it should be possible in this

>> > hospital as both I and a naturopath have hospital privileges and the

>> western

>> > staff mostly supports " alternative " medicine. She's a friend as well as a

>> > patient and she would be open to herbal medicines (as a rule responds >>

much

>> > better to them than pharmaceuticals) but I don't want to encourage

>> extending

>> > her suffering longer if it's not reasonable to believe it might turn

>> things

>> > around. Does anyone have experience or even educated opinions? The

>> severity of

>> > her case is far beyond anything I've ever treated.

>> >

>> > Thanks

>> >

>> > Deb Marshall

> ----------

>

>

>

> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release 3/3/06

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, that's true. But I think one would want to move up to taking more than 3

tsp/day, so if it were me, I would get some of the Metagenics Glutagenics and

also a big tub of just glutamine. It's not expensive by mail order or online,

such as from Swanson's (swansonsvitamins.com). Glutagenics practitioner price is

about $28 for 9 oz. I'd also advise reading a few google links for glutatmine to

get a sense of all the benefits of it. Almost medical malpractice that doctors

don't 'prescribe' it in cases like this, along with intestinal flora. Oh yeah --

not SOC. How silly of me.

 

If she gets to the point where she can consume more nutrition p.o., Metagenics

also makes a good weight gain powder, good also for cachexia, called Prograin

(Health Gain, when marketed in stores).

 

BTW, anybody into glyconutrients for cases like this? Not exactly tcm, but this

is a broad list and I'm just curious if anybody out there has had experience

with them. If you don't want to mess with that topic on the list, i'd welcome

any responses to me directly.

 

ann

 

 

yes: glutamine is excellent. Metagenics makes a great one called Glutagenics

with aloe and DGL in it

Cara

 

 

 

 

> I would add l-glutamine (sometimes just referred to as 'glutamine'). Best in

> powder form. It is the preferred fuel for the gut lining and preferentially

> withdrawn from there in times of stress. It is the most prevalent amino acid

> in muscle so is important for rebuilding muscle mass. Also precursor to

> glutathione, I believe, as well as growth hormone. Pretty essential really.

>

> Start with 1 tsp. tid and increase dose steadily. Doses discussed can range

up

> to 10 g, or even 20. No side effects have been recorded AFAIK, esp. when

dose

> is begun as above. Can be combined with water or any other drink, like fruit

> juice, smoothies, etc.

>

> ann

>

> Deb,

> I have a couple of suggestions: not Chinese herbs, but strategies that

> might help:

> Slippery elm ( or ba ji- bletilla) contains a lot of mucilage. This is

> extremely helpful for repairing the gut and I know of no side effects. It

> will create a soothing, slimy barrier in her gut. That is, if you can get

it

> in her.

>

> Also Kefir is superior for this as well: it creates a kind of positive

> dampness. Like a yin bed in the guts to allow good bacteria to colonize.

> Kefir is different than yogurt: it contains a different strain of

bacteria.

>

> Best of luck,

>

> Cara

>

>

>

>> > Are,

>> >

>> > Do you have any info available on-line re:your cancer tx? It seems I'm

>> getting

>> > a rash of cancer px lately.

>> >

>> > Everyone: the patient I described 3 days ago has deteriorated

>> significantly in

>> > that time: apparently the lining of the intestines, destroyed during

the

>> > chemo, hasn't regenerated so the food she's getting via stomach tube >>

isn't

>> > doing much good; they tried a partially digested mix today, it made the

>> > abdominal cramps much worse. Also, the staph infection she got in the

>> hospital

>> > appears to be regrouping and affecting her throat and lungs - they're

>> > expecting another onset of pneumonia, she's gurgling on in-breath, and

>> > speaking is becoming very difficult, as is taking anything by mouth,

she

has

>> > aspirated fluids several times. UTI is not abating. She's on a morphine

>> pump

>> > for the pain, but has said she doesn't want more treatment except

>> acupuncture.

>> > She was in a drug-induced sleep state today, didn't even wake when I

>> treated

>> > her. Skin is dusky, lips slightly cyanotic, tips of toes slightly blue

as

>> > well. Tongue not visible, retracted. Pulses all fast, tiny, soft,

kidney

>> > pulses deep, lung and heart floating and the irregularity has

>> disappeared.

>> >

>> > The MDs are pretty much at road's end; has anyone treated someone this

>> sick? I

>> > am uncertain whether to encourage her partner to push the MDs to

>> cooperate

>> > with naturopathic and/or TCM medicinals - it should be possible in this

>> > hospital as both I and a naturopath have hospital privileges and the

>> western

>> > staff mostly supports " alternative " medicine. She's a friend as well as

a

>> > patient and she would be open to herbal medicines (as a rule responds

>>

much

>> > better to them than pharmaceuticals) but I don't want to encourage

>> extending

>> > her suffering longer if it's not reasonable to believe it might turn

>> things

>> > around. Does anyone have experience or even educated opinions? The

>> severity of

>> > her case is far beyond anything I've ever treated.

>> >

>> > Thanks

>> >

>> > Deb Marshall

> ----------

>

>

>

> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release 3/3/06

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Deb-

I have treated a few very sick cancer patients and if I were you I

would stick with basic acupuncture treatments. From what you have

described, it sounds like this patient is at the point where she just

needs palliative care. Your job is to help keep her comfortable in

any way that you can. I am not sure if her body can even handle any

supplements at this point. I would try auricular acupuncture for its

ease of use and its potent calming effect on the body. Another thing

I have found useful in these situations is massage - hand or foot

reflexology is great - and the power of touch in these cases can be

profound.

 

Good luck and keep us posted on what happens.

 

- Adam