Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Fu Zi is hypertensive, yet I see it in formulas for HBP from kid yang xu. Can anyone help me to understand this? Has anyone used fu zi successfully in a formula to help LOWER HBP ? Thanks Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I've been chewing on this all day. What I think is going on is that phlegm-damp accumulation is one possible cause for hypertension. If that phelgm-damp is due to Kidney or Spleen Yang deficiency, then Fu Zi would be helpful in that scenario. On 3/8/06, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > > Fu Zi is hypertensive, yet I see it in formulas for HBP from kid yang xu. > Can anyone help me to understand this? Has anyone used fu zi successfully > in > a formula to help LOWER HBP ? > -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Al, I will try to look up some cases to illustrate my question. Give me a couple of days. C > I've been chewing on this all day. What I think is going on is that > phlegm-damp accumulation is one possible cause for hypertension. If that > phelgm-damp is due to Kidney or Spleen Yang deficiency, then Fu Zi would be > helpful in that scenario. > > On 3/8/06, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: >> > >> > Fu Zi is hypertensive, yet I see it in formulas for HBP from kid yang xu. >> > Can anyone help me to understand this? Has anyone used fu zi successfully >> > in >> > a formula to help LOWER HBP ? >> > > > > > -- > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 When I was in China and was being rotated through the internal med. dept. of the hospital, I ended up in rheumatology, and the doctor there told me that you can use fu zi with patients with hypertension as long as there are no overt heat signs, and you can differentiate this based on the tongue colour. If the tongue is dark red and congested then fu zi is out. There is probably more to it that I didnt pick up on and got lost in translation, but thats what I recall. As to WHY you use fu zi, Im interested to learn.... , Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > > Al, > I will try to look up some cases to illustrate my question. Give me a > couple of days. > C > > > > > > I've been chewing on this all day. What I think is going on is that > > phlegm-damp accumulation is one possible cause for hypertension. If that > > phelgm-damp is due to Kidney or Spleen Yang deficiency, then Fu Zi would be > > helpful in that scenario. > > > > On 3/8/06, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > >> > > >> > Fu Zi is hypertensive, yet I see it in formulas for HBP from kid yang xu. > >> > Can anyone help me to understand this? Has anyone used fu zi successfully > >> > in > >> > a formula to help LOWER HBP ? > >> > > > > > > > > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. > President China Herb Company > Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program > Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts > office: 215- 438-2977 > fax: 215-849-3338 > Www.chinaherbco.com > Www.carafrank.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 Hi Al, Yes, I have used Fu Zi to both increase and decrease blood pressure. This is how I think of it: We are taught in our basic education a very narrow sense of HBP which is Liver Yang or Wind rising. The symptoms in the books often include dizziness, tinnitus, headache etc. We are taught formulas such as Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin. But most of my HBP patients don't have these symptoms or scenario. Blood pressure goes up when the heart has to work harder to circulate the blood to all the places it has to go. This happens because of lack of easy flow in the blood vessels. This can happen for many TCM reasons. In some cases the Kidney Yang is weak and this explains the lack of free flow in the vessels and the HBP. In other cases the Heart and Kidney Yang are weak and this explains the lack of motive force in the Heart and the LBP. For me, the important thing is the clear definitive diagnosis of Kidney Yang Xu. I have used almost the same formula for both HBP and LBP. You know the saying " One diagnosis - Many diseases " . This is true. In the end I think it is a mistake to even think of herbs as hypertensive or anti hypertensive. This is not Chinese medicine and only confuses our diagnosis and treatment. Hope this helps, Sharon On Mar 10, 2006, at 5:25 PM, wrote: >> Fu Zi is hypertensive, yet I see it in formulas for HBP from kid >> yang xu.. >> Can anyone help me to understand this? Has anyone used fu zi >> successfully >> in >> a formula to help LOWER HBP ? >> Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 Well- it is interesting to know that even have seen it used. > When I was in China and was being rotated through the internal med. > dept. of the hospital, I ended up in rheumatology, and the doctor > there told me that you can use fu zi with patients with hypertension > as long as there are no overt heat signs, and you can differentiate > this based on the tongue colour. If the tongue is dark red and > congested then fu zi is out. There is probably more to it that I > didnt pick up on and got lost in translation, but thats what I > recall. As to WHY you use fu zi, Im interested to learn.... > > , Cara Frank <herbbabe > wrote: >> > >> > Al, >> > I will try to look up some cases to illustrate my question. Give > me a >> > couple of days. >> > C >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> > > I've been chewing on this all day. What I think is going on is > that >>> > > phlegm-damp accumulation is one possible cause for hypertension. > If that >>> > > phelgm-damp is due to Kidney or Spleen Yang deficiency, then Fu > Zi would be >>> > > helpful in that scenario. >>> > > >>> > > On 3/8/06, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > Fu Zi is hypertensive, yet I see it in formulas for HBP from > kid yang xu. >>>>> > >> > Can anyone help me to understand this? Has anyone used fu zi > successfully >>>>> > >> > in >>>>> > >> > a formula to help LOWER HBP ? >>>>> > >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. >> > President China Herb Company >> > Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program >> > Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts >> > office: 215- 438-2977 >> > fax: 215-849-3338 >> > Www.chinaherbco.com >> > Www.carafrank.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 > > sharon weizenbaum <sweiz > 2006/03/11 Sat AM 06:38:27 EST > > Re: Fu Zi > > Blood pressure will also go up when there is low blood volume, thus causing the heart to work harder. Low blood volume may be the WM concept of anemia or it may be TCM factors causing the low volume. Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 Thanks Sharon. That is really helpful to me. Cara > Hi Al, > > Yes, I have used Fu Zi to both increase and decrease blood pressure. > This is how I think of it: > > We are taught in our basic education a very narrow sense of HBP which > is Liver Yang or Wind rising. The symptoms in the books often > include dizziness, tinnitus, headache etc. We are taught formulas > such as Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin. But most of my HBP patients don't > have these symptoms or scenario. > > Blood pressure goes up when the heart has to work harder to circulate > the blood to all the places it has to go. This happens because of > lack of easy flow in the blood vessels. This can happen for many TCM > reasons. In some cases the Kidney Yang is weak and this explains the > lack of free flow in the vessels and the HBP. In other cases the > Heart and Kidney Yang are weak and this explains the lack of motive > force in the Heart and the LBP. > > For me, the important thing is the clear definitive diagnosis of > Kidney Yang Xu. I have used almost the same formula for both HBP and > LBP. You know the saying " One diagnosis - Many diseases " . This is > true. In the end I think it is a mistake to even think of herbs as > hypertensive or anti hypertensive. This is not Chinese medicine and > only confuses our diagnosis and treatment. > > Hope this helps, > > Sharon > > > On Mar 10, 2006, at 5:25 PM, wrote: > >>> >> Fu Zi is hypertensive, yet I see it in formulas for HBP from kid >>> >> yang xu.. >>> >> Can anyone help me to understand this? Has anyone used fu zi >>> >> successfully >>> >> in >>> >> a formula to help LOWER HBP ? >>> >> > > Sharon Weizenbaum > 86 Henry Street > Amherst, MA 01002 > 413-549-4021 > sweiz > www.whitepinehealingarts.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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