Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Bill, I agree with Z'ev. I have started introducing the Wiseman/Feng terminology in the beginning. I find that my best students quickly see the benefits and it is only the slower students who have significant difficulty. I have suggested, and will start requiring, they buy A Practical Dictionary so they can spend some time learning the terms and getting a deeper understanding of the medicine. I also require they learn some of the terms, i.e. I went through (and tested them on) the different types of supplementation and associated terms when I taught the supplementing categories of medicinals. Its not the focus, but merely an introduction. I have also pushed a new class through, Chinese Medical Terminology. It is only a three credit course in the first semester, but I hope it will give the students a start in understanding some of the basics of Chinese, introduce them to some of the different terminology, and give them an appreciation for the translation process and richness of the medicine they are studying. I do stand alone in using the PD terminology as a teacher at this school, and that has caused a little bit of a problem, especially for the students. However, in the long run, I believe they will greatly benefit by the diversity of their learning experience. All the best, Professor of Chair Department of Herbal Medicine Institute of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine Honolulu, HI www.herbsandmore.photostockplus.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Thomas, I think I addressed your points in my response to Zev. See you in the desert in a couple of weeks! - Bill Schoenbart > Bill, > > I agree with Z'ev. I have started introducing the Wiseman/Feng terminology > in the beginning. I find that my best students quickly see the benefits and > it is only the slower students who have significant difficulty. I have > suggested, and will start requiring, they buy A Practical Dictionary so they > can spend some time learning the terms and getting a deeper understanding of > the medicine. I also require they learn some of the terms, i.e. I went > through (and tested them on) the different types of supplementation and > associated terms when I taught the supplementing categories of medicinals. > Its not the focus, but merely an introduction. > > I have also pushed a new class through, Chinese Medical Terminology. It is > only a three credit course in the first semester, but I hope it will give > the students a start in understanding some of the basics of Chinese, > introduce them to some of the different terminology, and give them an > appreciation for the translation process and richness of the medicine they > are studying. > > I do stand alone in using the PD terminology as a teacher at this school, > and that has caused a little bit of a problem, especially for the students. > However, in the long run, I believe they will greatly benefit by the > diversity of their learning experience. > > All the best, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Kate, Bill, Jason, Z'ev, et al, First, I want to thank Kate for her insightful post from the students perspective. As an educator, I am VERY interested in how students both perceive and receive the information we are dishing out. I would like to try to answer your question, Kate, regarding whether or not I think it helps in practice and how I deal with patients on a day-to-day basis. YES! Although it does not have a direct bearing on how I address patients because, while I do explain certain things to them, I do try to keep it as simple as possible since most of them understand neither Chinese medicine nor basic health practices. Where I do believe it helps, and I am constantly trying to get this through to students, is understanding the mechanisms of disease and the nuances of diagnosis and treatment, both acupuncture and especially herbal/medicinal. The example that comes to mind is zhi4 (stagnation) vs. yu4 (depression). The pathomechanisms are different, therefore the treatment must also be different. But I also think that sometimes it is not particularly important in the clinic, though it may be important when reading. The example coming to mind is the many variants of bu3 (supplement). Wiseman/Feng list 15 variations, which have different meaning or connotations. However, in the end we are bu3 (supplementing) and in the daily activities of the clinic it probably doesn't really matter if you simply just say, " I am supplementing the kidney yin or liver blood, or spleen qi, etc. " However, if you are reading a text and the words are used without explicitly stating what is going on, it sure would help to understand that rou2 (emolliate) means to supplement the liver blood. Anyway, in the end, as Bill said, this argument will blaze bright for years to come. I hope as I grasp the language better and better and learn to translate with some well known translators from outside the CM world, I will have something significant to contribute. For now, I simply blunder along and do the best I can like all the rest. BTW: The Eclectic Physicians were some of the best herbalists and plant pharmacists to even walk the planet. I would also point to the Physiomedicalist as, perhaps, even better and very close to an understanding of the health to CM, though the jargon is clearly different and their ideas were not allowed to develop long enough. Also see Michael Moore's website, although I think the material on Henriette's site is about the same as they are good friends and have traded lots of info. Peace, Chair Department of Herbal Medicine Institute of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine Adjunct Faculty Department of Integrative Medicine John Burns School of Medicine University of Hawai'i Manoa Honolulu, HI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hi, I just want to throw in my two cents. These are just some of my observations and inquiries. I have asked many students here in Taiwan, as well as some of my friends in the mainland, about their experiences while studying in the medical school systems here in Asia and their struggles with the learning process. One thing that I was surprised to hear was that they also have to learn new terminology besides western medical terminology. The system of reading for classical literature is called wen2 yan2 wen2 and it’s the literary system used also in reading medical texts. Many of the lay people are not able to understand Wen2 yan2 wen2; they will know the characters but they will not usually know in what context their being used. Therefore, Chinese medical students of TCM also have to undergo additional training in reading the literary system of wen2 yan2 wen2 in order to be able to read the medical texts. The typical Chinese student will have as many questions as a western student. Most of their questions regarding term usage will be explained by an instructor that is well acquainted with the metaphorical meaning and with any historical relevance that the term may carry. On top of this, every student of Chinese medicine will have a Chinese medical dictionary of Chinese medical terms. That is why I don’t understand why many westerners find it so hard to learn a new vocabulary. If a person went to engineering school they would have to learn a new set of terms that they would use within their field, so why is it that western student’s of Chinese medicine have a hard time with this. My impression as a graduate from a western school in the states is that if the schools from the get go introduced new terms into the students’ program, and the students were made aware of that requirement, there would not be as many problems. This is because the students would understand that it is a necessity to learn a new set of terms to understand their field of study. It may be hard at first, but in time students will become acquainted with the new termology, and, in turn, they will have a deeper understanding of their craft. That is why teachers need to develop their understanding of terms and historical relevance of terms that are used in the practice of traditional Chinese medicine so they can convey to their students the same way a Chinese teacher conveys to his students any relevant material for that term. Simplifying certain terms in speech is ok as long as you can come back to the original term (that which can be traced back to the Chinese) in order to maintain consistency, other wise it becomes like the game rumors where at the end of the line the last person’s statements are totally different from the initial ones. My two cents, Gabe Fuentes --- Bill Schoenbart <plantmed2 wrote: > Thomas, > > I think I addressed your points in my response to > Zev. > > See you in the desert in a couple of weeks! > > - Bill Schoenbart > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I agree with Z'ev. I have started introducing the > Wiseman/Feng terminology > > in the beginning. I find that my best students > quickly see the benefits and > > it is only the slower students who have > significant difficulty. I have > > suggested, and will start requiring, they buy A > Practical Dictionary so they > > can spend some time learning the terms and getting > a deeper understanding of > > the medicine. I also require they learn some of > the terms, i.e. I went > > through (and tested them on) the different types > of supplementation and > > associated terms when I taught the supplementing > categories of medicinals. > > Its not the focus, but merely an introduction. > > > > I have also pushed a new class through, Chinese > Medical Terminology. It is > > only a three credit course in the first semester, > but I hope it will give > > the students a start in understanding some of the > basics of Chinese, > > introduce them to some of the different > terminology, and give them an > > appreciation for the translation process and > richness of the medicine they > > are studying. > > > > I do stand alone in using the PD terminology as a > teacher at this school, > > and that has caused a little bit of a problem, > especially for the students. > > However, in the long run, I believe they will > greatly benefit by the > > diversity of their learning experience. > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 , wrote: > understand that rou2 (emolliate) means to supplement the liver blood. This is not a criticism to you or Wiseman terminology, which I love, but emolliate is not really a word that can be found in Webster's dictionary. Emolliants do not " emolliate. " Rather, they " mollify. " I am not sure how that one got past Wiseman. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Thanks for your 2 cents. At this level another complexity comes in because the nature of each language is different and the expectations of the culture it comes out of. English, it has been said, is a business language, coming from several different cultures and languages. What we end up with is rather poor in metaphor but clear in surface and literal meaning. The expectations of the English speaker then is to have a clear meaning. I don't think that the problems is that we can't learn a new terminology, it's that we want to know what it means and if that original word is a Chinese one then here we go deep into history and metaphor. (Add to that the Westerners propensity to mystifiy Asian culture and put our own expectations on to it.) As I understand it, Wiseman's solution is to use unfamiliar words to force an understanding. It is one strategy to overcome this problem. The answer of course is to have teachers who can articulate all of this to a student. Unfortunately, the Asian teacher might not have the best grasp of English while the English teacher might not have the best grasp of the culture. To have both is wonderful, of course, and there are those among us and in the profession who have it. doug , gabe gabe <fuentes120 wrote: > > Hi, I just want to throw in my two cents. These are > just some of my observations and inquiries. I have > asked many students here in Taiwan, as well as some of > my friends in the mainland, about their experiences > while studying in the medical school systems here in > Asia and their struggles with the learning process. > One thing that I was surprised to hear was that they > also have to learn new terminology besides western > medical terminology. The system of reading for > classical literature is called wen2 yan2 wen2 and it's > the literary system used also in reading medical > texts. Many of the lay people are not able to > understand Wen2 yan2 wen2; they will know the > characters but they will not usually know in what > context their being used. Therefore, Chinese medical > students of TCM also have to undergo additional > training in reading the literary system of wen2 yan2 > wen2 in order to be able to read the medical texts. > The typical Chinese student will have as many > questions as a western student. Most of their > questions regarding term usage will be explained by an > instructor that is well acquainted with the > metaphorical meaning and with any historical relevance > that the term may carry. On top of this, every student > of Chinese medicine will have a Chinese medical > dictionary of Chinese medical terms. > > That is why I don't understand why many westerners > find it so hard to learn a new vocabulary. If a person > went to engineering school they would have to learn a > new set of terms that they would use within their > field, so why is it that western student's of Chinese > medicine have a hard time with this. > > My impression as a graduate from a western school in > the states is that if the schools from the get go > introduced new terms into the students? program, and > the students were made aware of that requirement, > there would not be as many problems. This is because > the students would understand that it is a necessity > to learn a new set of terms to understand their field > of study. It may be hard at first, but in time > students will become acquainted with the new > termology, and, in turn, they will have a deeper > understanding of their craft. > > That is why teachers need to develop their > understanding of terms and historical relevance of > terms that are used in the practice of traditional > Chinese medicine so they can convey to their students > the same way a Chinese teacher conveys to his students > any relevant material for that term. > > Simplifying certain terms in speech is ok as long as > you can come back to the original term (that which can > be traced back to the Chinese) in order to maintain > consistency, other wise it becomes like the game > rumors where at the end of the line the last person's > statements are totally different from the initial > ones. > > My two cents, > > Gabe Fuentes > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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