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I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula from Mayway.

 

The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day.

 

In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = 21.6g/day of a 5:1 powder

to equal the raw herb dosing.

 

However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to use about 8-10g/day

as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom formulas,

regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic conditions.

 

If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose would be less than

half of what would seem logical.

 

I realize their extraction process is superior to my patient's

decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut the dose by more than

50%?

 

I want to get this ordered today, so any advice would be appreciated.

 

Brian C. Allen

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Hi Brian,

 

I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs

 

Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high concentration

powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage is

9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage

depends on the condition of the patients. (again, that

is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the

quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12 days =

108g that will be for the chronic condition, higher

dosage for the acute conditions.

 

is that answer your question?

 

Christine

 

 

--- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote:

 

> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula

> from Mayway.

>

> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day.

>

> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = 21.6g/day

> of a 5:1 powder

> to equal the raw herb dosing.

>

> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to use

> about 8-10g/day

> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom

> formulas,

> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic

> conditions.

>

> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose

> would be less than

> half of what would seem logical.

>

> I realize their extraction process is superior to my

> patient's

> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut the

> dose by more than

> 50%?

>

> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice

> would be appreciated.

>

> Brian C. Allen

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM

BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee

American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM)

310-951-8698 (cel)

panasiaintl

 

" I think, therefore I am. "

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, " "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> I give higher doses all the time and think it is needed. By the

way how do you like the may way extracts?

 

 

I think I will stick with my original dosing idea of just dividing

by 5. Doing it their way does not make sense.

 

For example, consider a raw herb formula with 5 ingredients and a

daily dose of 50 g. Mayway's instruction say to give 10 g a day.

Now that makes sense because 50 / 5 = 10.

 

Now consider a raw herb formula with 10 ingredients and a daily dose

of 100 g. Mayway still says to give 10 g a day. That makes no

sense. It would be cutting the daily dose in half.

 

Why would I give the same amount of grams of powder for Er Chen Tang

which is relatively small, as compared to something like Gui Pi Tang

which has a daily raw herb dose of 108 g. It just wouldn't make

sense.

 

Anyway, to answer your other question, this will be my first time

using the Mayway 5:1 powders. The patient is a relative, so I am

not risking anything professionally if the powders are less than

effective.

 

I do like Mayway in general, though, and I do not expect any

problems.

 

Brian C. Allen

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Guest guest

Christine,

Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you won't mind if I ask

another question.

 

I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in Albuquerque, and several

of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, chuan xiong cha tiao san

and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available, supposedly because of FDA

'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is so, when and how will

these products again become available?

 

Thank you,

 

 

On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang wrote:

 

> Hi Brian,

>

> I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs

>

> Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high concentration

> powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage is

> 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage

> depends on the condition of the patients. (again, that

> is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the

> quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12 days =

> 108g that will be for the chronic condition, higher

> dosage for the acute conditions.

>

> is that answer your question?

>

> Christine

>

>

> --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote:

>

>> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula

>> from Mayway.

>>

>> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day.

>>

>> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = 21.6g/day

>> of a 5:1 powder

>> to equal the raw herb dosing.

>>

>> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to use

>> about 8-10g/day

>> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom

>> formulas,

>> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic

>> conditions.

>>

>> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose

>> would be less than

>> half of what would seem logical.

>>

>> I realize their extraction process is superior to my

>> patient's

>> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut the

>> dose by more than

>> 50%?

>>

>> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice

>> would be appreciated.

>>

>> Brian C. Allen

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

> Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM

> BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee

> American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM)

> 310-951-8698 (cel)

> panasiaintl

>

> " I think, therefore I am. "

>

>

>

>

>

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services,

> including board approved continuing education classes, an annual

> conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

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Hi Brian,

 

While I am speaking from only 4 years of using KPC 5:1 extracts, I would

recommend following Mayway instructions at first. I think you will find that a

dose of about 10 grams a day can be and will be effective most of the time. My

Chinese teachers taught us that because Americans have not grown up taking herbs

their whole life that they are more responsive to smaller doses. Actually using

KPC herbs my dosage ranges from 6 - 12 grams depending on the formula and

patient. (As little as 4 grams for children)

 

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents.

 

Cheers,

Michael O'Brien

 

 

 

-

bcataiji

Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:05 PM

Re: 5:1 powder dose help needed

 

 

, " "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> I give higher doses all the time and think it is needed. By the

way how do you like the may way extracts?

 

 

I think I will stick with my original dosing idea of just dividing

by 5. Doing it their way does not make sense.

 

For example, consider a raw herb formula with 5 ingredients and a

daily dose of 50 g. Mayway's instruction say to give 10 g a day.

Now that makes sense because 50 / 5 = 10.

 

Now consider a raw herb formula with 10 ingredients and a daily dose

of 100 g. Mayway still says to give 10 g a day. That makes no

sense. It would be cutting the daily dose in half.

 

Why would I give the same amount of grams of powder for Er Chen Tang

which is relatively small, as compared to something like Gui Pi Tang

which has a daily raw herb dose of 108 g. It just wouldn't make

sense.

 

Anyway, to answer your other question, this will be my first time

using the Mayway 5:1 powders. The patient is a relative, so I am

not risking anything professionally if the powders are less than

effective.

 

I do like Mayway in general, though, and I do not expect any

problems.

 

Brian C. Allen

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

 

 

 

 

 

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, " bcataiji " <bcataiji

wrote:

>> I think I will stick with my original dosing idea of just dividing

> by 5. Doing it their way does not make sense.

 

6 grams three times a day (6g/TID= 18g/day) is the standard dose in

Taiwan. Occassionally, slightly less will be used, but generally doses

are higher than 4.6 g TID. The concentration ratio varies depending on

the medicinal, 5:1 is just a rough estimate. All the data is disclosed

on the Taiwanese labels, so let me know about specific singles and

formulas and I can give you precise equations.

 

Eric

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Hi Z¡¦ev

It is no problem, we can discuss any questions & I

will do my best to answer you.

 

1. Zhi Gan Cao Tang: it is available now.

2. Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San: because of AA in Xi Xin,

KPC tests every batch of every formula which contains

Xi Xin. Today, it is not available but it has been

sent to the USA and then it will be tested in the USA.

AA is tested in Taiwan.

3. Shao Fu Zhu Yu Tang: for the US market, KPC took

out wu ling zhi and changed the % of other

ingredients. It's abailable for the one without wu

ling zhi.

 

Is that ok for your questions?

 

Christine

 

 

 

--- <zrosenbe wrote:

 

> Christine,

> Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you won't

> mind if I ask

> another question.

>

> I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in

> Albuquerque, and several

> of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, chuan

> xiong cha tiao san

> and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available,

> supposedly because of FDA

> 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is so,

> when and how will

> these products again become available?

>

> Thank you,

>

>

> On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang wrote:

>

> > Hi Brian,

> >

> > I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs

> >

> > Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high

> concentration

> > powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage

> is

> > 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage

> > depends on the condition of the patients. (again,

> that

> > is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the

> > quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12

> days =

> > 108g that will be for the chronic condition,

> higher

> > dosage for the acute conditions.

> >

> > is that answer your question?

> >

> > Christine

> >

> >

> > --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote:

> >

> >> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula

> >> from Mayway.

> >>

> >> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day.

> >>

> >> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 =

> 21.6g/day

> >> of a 5:1 powder

> >> to equal the raw herb dosing.

> >>

> >> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to

> use

> >> about 8-10g/day

> >> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom

> >> formulas,

> >> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic

> >> conditions.

> >>

> >> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose

> >> would be less than

> >> half of what would seem logical.

> >>

> >> I realize their extraction process is superior to

> my

> >> patient's

> >> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut

> the

> >> dose by more than

> >> 50%?

> >>

> >> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice

> >> would be appreciated.

> >>

> >> Brian C. Allen

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM

> > BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee

> > American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM)

> > 310-951-8698 (cel)

> > panasiaintl

> >

> > " I think, therefore I am. "

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various

> professional services,

> > including board approved continuing education

> classes, an annual

> > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese

> Herbal Medicine.

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Yes,

Thank you very much.

 

 

On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Christine Chang wrote:

 

> Hi Z¡¦ev

> It is no problem, we can discuss any questions & I

> will do my best to answer you.

>

> 1. Zhi Gan Cao Tang: it is available now.

> 2. Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San: because of AA in Xi Xin,

> KPC tests every batch of every formula which contains

> Xi Xin. Today, it is not available but it has been

> sent to the USA and then it will be tested in the USA.

> AA is tested in Taiwan.

> 3. Shao Fu Zhu Yu Tang: for the US market, KPC took

> out wu ling zhi and changed the % of other

> ingredients. It's abailable for the one without wu

> ling zhi.

>

> Is that ok for your questions?

>

> Christine

>

>

>

> --- <zrosenbe wrote:

>

>> Christine,

>> Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you won't

>> mind if I ask

>> another question.

>>

>> I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in

>> Albuquerque, and several

>> of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, chuan

>> xiong cha tiao san

>> and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available,

>> supposedly because of FDA

>> 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is so,

>> when and how will

>> these products again become available?

>>

>> Thank you,

>>

>>

>> On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang wrote:

>>

>>> Hi Brian,

>>>

>>> I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs

>>>

>>> Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high

>> concentration

>>> powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage

>> is

>>> 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage

>>> depends on the condition of the patients. (again,

>> that

>>> is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the

>>> quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12

>> days =

>>> 108g that will be for the chronic condition,

>> higher

>>> dosage for the acute conditions.

>>>

>>> is that answer your question?

>>>

>>> Christine

>>>

>>>

>>> --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote:

>>>

>>>> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula

>>>> from Mayway.

>>>>

>>>> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day.

>>>>

>>>> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 =

>> 21.6g/day

>>>> of a 5:1 powder

>>>> to equal the raw herb dosing.

>>>>

>>>> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to

>> use

>>>> about 8-10g/day

>>>> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom

>>>> formulas,

>>>> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic

>>>> conditions.

>>>>

>>>> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose

>>>> would be less than

>>>> half of what would seem logical.

>>>>

>>>> I realize their extraction process is superior to

>> my

>>>> patient's

>>>> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut

>> the

>>>> dose by more than

>>>> 50%?

>>>>

>>>> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice

>>>> would be appreciated.

>>>>

>>>> Brian C. Allen

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM

>>> BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee

>>> American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM)

>>> 310-951-8698 (cel)

>>> panasiaintl

>>>

>>> " I think, therefore I am. "

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various

>> professional services,

>>> including board approved continuing education

>> classes, an annual

>>> conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese

>> Herbal Medicine.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

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Guest guest

why is wu ling zhi taken out?

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

-

Friday, March 24, 2006 12:50 PM

Re: 5:1 powder dose help needed

 

 

Yes,

Thank you very much.

 

On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Christine Chang wrote:

 

> Hi Z¡¦ev

> It is no problem, we can discuss any questions & I

> will do my best to answer you.

>

> 1. Zhi Gan Cao Tang: it is available now.

> 2. Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San: because of AA in Xi Xin,

> KPC tests every batch of every formula which contains

> Xi Xin. Today, it is not available but it has been

> sent to the USA and then it will be tested in the USA.

> AA is tested in Taiwan.

> 3. Shao Fu Zhu Yu Tang: for the US market, KPC took

> out wu ling zhi and changed the % of other

> ingredients. It's abailable for the one without wu

> ling zhi.

>

> Is that ok for your questions?

>

> Christine

>

>

>

> --- <zrosenbe wrote:

>

>> Christine,

>> Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you won't

>> mind if I ask

>> another question.

>>

>> I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in

>> Albuquerque, and several

>> of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, chuan

>> xiong cha tiao san

>> and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available,

>> supposedly because of FDA

>> 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is so,

>> when and how will

>> these products again become available?

>>

>> Thank you,

>>

>>

>> On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang wrote:

>>

>>> Hi Brian,

>>>

>>> I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs

>>>

>>> Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high

>> concentration

>>> powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage

>> is

>>> 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage

>>> depends on the condition of the patients. (again,

>> that

>>> is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the

>>> quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12

>> days =

>>> 108g that will be for the chronic condition,

>> higher

>>> dosage for the acute conditions.

>>>

>>> is that answer your question?

>>>

>>> Christine

>>>

>>>

>>> --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote:

>>>

>>>> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula

>>>> from Mayway.

>>>>

>>>> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day.

>>>>

>>>> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 =

>> 21.6g/day

>>>> of a 5:1 powder

>>>> to equal the raw herb dosing.

>>>>

>>>> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to

>> use

>>>> about 8-10g/day

>>>> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom

>>>> formulas,

>>>> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic

>>>> conditions.

>>>>

>>>> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose

>>>> would be less than

>>>> half of what would seem logical.

>>>>

>>>> I realize their extraction process is superior to

>> my

>>>> patient's

>>>> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut

>> the

>>>> dose by more than

>>>> 50%?

>>>>

>>>> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice

>>>> would be appreciated.

>>>>

>>>> Brian C. Allen

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM

>>> BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee

>>> American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM)

>>> 310-951-8698 (cel)

>>> panasiaintl

>>>

>>> " I think, therefore I am. "

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various

>> professional services,

>>> including board approved continuing education

>> classes, an annual

>>> conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese

>> Herbal Medicine.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

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Guest guest

old FDA proverb " don't eat shit "

 

Christine

 

--- <alonmarcus wrote:

 

> why is wu ling zhi taken out?

>

>

>

>

> Oakland, CA 94609

>

>

> -

>

>

> Friday, March 24, 2006 12:50 PM

> Re: 5:1 powder dose help needed

>

>

> Yes,

> Thank you very much.

>

>

> On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Christine Chang

> wrote:

>

> > Hi Z¡¦ev

> > It is no problem, we can discuss any questions &

> I

> > will do my best to answer you.

> >

> > 1. Zhi Gan Cao Tang: it is available now.

> > 2. Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San: because of AA

> in Xi Xin,

> > KPC tests every batch of every formula which

> contains

> > Xi Xin. Today, it is not available but it has

> been

> > sent to the USA and then it will be tested in

> the USA.

> > AA is tested in Taiwan.

> > 3. Shao Fu Zhu Yu Tang: for the US market,

> KPC took

> > out wu ling zhi and changed the % of other

> > ingredients. It's abailable for the one without

> wu

> > ling zhi.

> >

> > Is that ok for your questions?

> >

> > Christine

> >

> >

> >

> > --- <zrosenbe wrote:

> >

> >> Christine,

> >> Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you

> won't

> >> mind if I ask

> >> another question.

> >>

> >> I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in

> >> Albuquerque, and several

> >> of your products, such as zhi gan can tang,

> chuan

> >> xiong cha tiao san

> >> and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available,

> >> supposedly because of FDA

> >> 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is

> so,

> >> when and how will

> >> these products again become available?

> >>

> >> Thank you,

> >>

> >>

> >> On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang

> wrote:

> >>

> >>> Hi Brian,

> >>>

> >>> I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane

> Herbs

> >>>

> >>> Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high

> >> concentration

> >>> powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard

> dosage

> >> is

> >>> 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the

> dosage

> >>> depends on the condition of the patients.

> (again,

> >> that

> >>> is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know

> the

> >>> quality of those products) , so, 3g x

> 3times/12

> >> days =

> >>> 108g that will be for the chronic condition,

> >> higher

> >>> dosage for the acute conditions.

> >>>

> >>> is that answer your question?

> >>>

> >>> Christine

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom

> formula

> >>>> from Mayway.

> >>>>

> >>>> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day.

> >>>>

> >>>> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 =

> >> 21.6g/day

> >>>> of a 5:1 powder

> >>>> to equal the raw herb dosing.

> >>>>

> >>>> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me

> to

> >> use

> >>>> about 8-10g/day

> >>>> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered

> custom

> >>>> formulas,

> >>>> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for

> chronic

> >>>> conditions.

> >>>>

> >>>> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the

> dose

> >>>> would be less than

> >>>> half of what would seem logical.

> >>>>

> >>>> I realize their extraction process is

> superior to

> >> my

> >>>> patient's

> >>>> decoction abilities, but, really, should I

> cut

> >> the

> >>>> dose by more than

> >>>> 50%?

> >>>>

> >>>> I want to get this ordered today, so any

> advice

> >>>> would be appreciated.

> >>>>

> >>>> Brian C. Allen

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM

> >>> BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee

> >>> American Association of Oriental Medicine

> (AAOM)

> >>> 310-951-8698 (cel)

> >>> panasiaintl

> >>>

> >>> " I think, therefore I am. "

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various

> >> professional services,

> >>> including board approved continuing education

> >> classes, an annual

> >>> conference and a free discussion forum in

> Chinese

> >> Herbal Medicine.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

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