Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula from Mayway. The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day. In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = 21.6g/day of a 5:1 powder to equal the raw herb dosing. However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to use about 8-10g/day as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom formulas, regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic conditions. If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose would be less than half of what would seem logical. I realize their extraction process is superior to my patient's decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut the dose by more than 50%? I want to get this ordered today, so any advice would be appreciated. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Hi Brian, I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high concentration powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage is 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage depends on the condition of the patients. (again, that is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12 days = 108g that will be for the chronic condition, higher dosage for the acute conditions. is that answer your question? Christine --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote: > I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula > from Mayway. > > The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day. > > In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = 21.6g/day > of a 5:1 powder > to equal the raw herb dosing. > > However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to use > about 8-10g/day > as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom > formulas, > regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic > conditions. > > If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose > would be less than > half of what would seem logical. > > I realize their extraction process is superior to my > patient's > decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut the > dose by more than > 50%? > > I want to get this ordered today, so any advice > would be appreciated. > > Brian C. Allen > > > > > > Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM) 310-951-8698 (cel) panasiaintl " I think, therefore I am. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 , " " <alonmarcus wrote: > > I give higher doses all the time and think it is needed. By the way how do you like the may way extracts? I think I will stick with my original dosing idea of just dividing by 5. Doing it their way does not make sense. For example, consider a raw herb formula with 5 ingredients and a daily dose of 50 g. Mayway's instruction say to give 10 g a day. Now that makes sense because 50 / 5 = 10. Now consider a raw herb formula with 10 ingredients and a daily dose of 100 g. Mayway still says to give 10 g a day. That makes no sense. It would be cutting the daily dose in half. Why would I give the same amount of grams of powder for Er Chen Tang which is relatively small, as compared to something like Gui Pi Tang which has a daily raw herb dose of 108 g. It just wouldn't make sense. Anyway, to answer your other question, this will be my first time using the Mayway 5:1 powders. The patient is a relative, so I am not risking anything professionally if the powders are less than effective. I do like Mayway in general, though, and I do not expect any problems. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Christine, Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you won't mind if I ask another question. I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in Albuquerque, and several of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, chuan xiong cha tiao san and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available, supposedly because of FDA 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is so, when and how will these products again become available? Thank you, On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang wrote: > Hi Brian, > > I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs > > Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high concentration > powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage is > 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage > depends on the condition of the patients. (again, that > is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the > quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12 days = > 108g that will be for the chronic condition, higher > dosage for the acute conditions. > > is that answer your question? > > Christine > > > --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote: > >> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula >> from Mayway. >> >> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day. >> >> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = 21.6g/day >> of a 5:1 powder >> to equal the raw herb dosing. >> >> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to use >> about 8-10g/day >> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom >> formulas, >> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic >> conditions. >> >> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose >> would be less than >> half of what would seem logical. >> >> I realize their extraction process is superior to my >> patient's >> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut the >> dose by more than >> 50%? >> >> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice >> would be appreciated. >> >> Brian C. Allen >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM > BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee > American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM) > 310-951-8698 (cel) > panasiaintl > > " I think, therefore I am. " > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hi Brian, While I am speaking from only 4 years of using KPC 5:1 extracts, I would recommend following Mayway instructions at first. I think you will find that a dose of about 10 grams a day can be and will be effective most of the time. My Chinese teachers taught us that because Americans have not grown up taking herbs their whole life that they are more responsive to smaller doses. Actually using KPC herbs my dosage ranges from 6 - 12 grams depending on the formula and patient. (As little as 4 grams for children) Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents. Cheers, Michael O'Brien - bcataiji Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:05 PM Re: 5:1 powder dose help needed , " " <alonmarcus wrote: > > I give higher doses all the time and think it is needed. By the way how do you like the may way extracts? I think I will stick with my original dosing idea of just dividing by 5. Doing it their way does not make sense. For example, consider a raw herb formula with 5 ingredients and a daily dose of 50 g. Mayway's instruction say to give 10 g a day. Now that makes sense because 50 / 5 = 10. Now consider a raw herb formula with 10 ingredients and a daily dose of 100 g. Mayway still says to give 10 g a day. That makes no sense. It would be cutting the daily dose in half. Why would I give the same amount of grams of powder for Er Chen Tang which is relatively small, as compared to something like Gui Pi Tang which has a daily raw herb dose of 108 g. It just wouldn't make sense. Anyway, to answer your other question, this will be my first time using the Mayway 5:1 powders. The patient is a relative, so I am not risking anything professionally if the powders are less than effective. I do like Mayway in general, though, and I do not expect any problems. Brian C. Allen Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 , " bcataiji " <bcataiji wrote: >> I think I will stick with my original dosing idea of just dividing > by 5. Doing it their way does not make sense. 6 grams three times a day (6g/TID= 18g/day) is the standard dose in Taiwan. Occassionally, slightly less will be used, but generally doses are higher than 4.6 g TID. The concentration ratio varies depending on the medicinal, 5:1 is just a rough estimate. All the data is disclosed on the Taiwanese labels, so let me know about specific singles and formulas and I can give you precise equations. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Hi Z¡¦ev It is no problem, we can discuss any questions & I will do my best to answer you. 1. Zhi Gan Cao Tang: it is available now. 2. Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San: because of AA in Xi Xin, KPC tests every batch of every formula which contains Xi Xin. Today, it is not available but it has been sent to the USA and then it will be tested in the USA. AA is tested in Taiwan. 3. Shao Fu Zhu Yu Tang: for the US market, KPC took out wu ling zhi and changed the % of other ingredients. It's abailable for the one without wu ling zhi. Is that ok for your questions? Christine --- <zrosenbe wrote: > Christine, > Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you won't > mind if I ask > another question. > > I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in > Albuquerque, and several > of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, chuan > xiong cha tiao san > and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available, > supposedly because of FDA > 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is so, > when and how will > these products again become available? > > Thank you, > > > On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang wrote: > > > Hi Brian, > > > > I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs > > > > Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high > concentration > > powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage > is > > 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage > > depends on the condition of the patients. (again, > that > > is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the > > quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12 > days = > > 108g that will be for the chronic condition, > higher > > dosage for the acute conditions. > > > > is that answer your question? > > > > Christine > > > > > > --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote: > > > >> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula > >> from Mayway. > >> > >> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day. > >> > >> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = > 21.6g/day > >> of a 5:1 powder > >> to equal the raw herb dosing. > >> > >> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to > use > >> about 8-10g/day > >> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom > >> formulas, > >> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic > >> conditions. > >> > >> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose > >> would be less than > >> half of what would seem logical. > >> > >> I realize their extraction process is superior to > my > >> patient's > >> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut > the > >> dose by more than > >> 50%? > >> > >> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice > >> would be appreciated. > >> > >> Brian C. Allen > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM > > BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee > > American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM) > > 310-951-8698 (cel) > > panasiaintl > > > > " I think, therefore I am. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various > professional services, > > including board approved continuing education > classes, an annual > > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese > Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Yes, Thank you very much. On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Christine Chang wrote: > Hi Z¡¦ev > It is no problem, we can discuss any questions & I > will do my best to answer you. > > 1. Zhi Gan Cao Tang: it is available now. > 2. Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San: because of AA in Xi Xin, > KPC tests every batch of every formula which contains > Xi Xin. Today, it is not available but it has been > sent to the USA and then it will be tested in the USA. > AA is tested in Taiwan. > 3. Shao Fu Zhu Yu Tang: for the US market, KPC took > out wu ling zhi and changed the % of other > ingredients. It's abailable for the one without wu > ling zhi. > > Is that ok for your questions? > > Christine > > > > --- <zrosenbe wrote: > >> Christine, >> Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you won't >> mind if I ask >> another question. >> >> I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in >> Albuquerque, and several >> of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, chuan >> xiong cha tiao san >> and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available, >> supposedly because of FDA >> 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is so, >> when and how will >> these products again become available? >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang wrote: >> >>> Hi Brian, >>> >>> I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs >>> >>> Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high >> concentration >>> powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage >> is >>> 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage >>> depends on the condition of the patients. (again, >> that >>> is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the >>> quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12 >> days = >>> 108g that will be for the chronic condition, >> higher >>> dosage for the acute conditions. >>> >>> is that answer your question? >>> >>> Christine >>> >>> >>> --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote: >>> >>>> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula >>>> from Mayway. >>>> >>>> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day. >>>> >>>> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = >> 21.6g/day >>>> of a 5:1 powder >>>> to equal the raw herb dosing. >>>> >>>> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to >> use >>>> about 8-10g/day >>>> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom >>>> formulas, >>>> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic >>>> conditions. >>>> >>>> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose >>>> would be less than >>>> half of what would seem logical. >>>> >>>> I realize their extraction process is superior to >> my >>>> patient's >>>> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut >> the >>>> dose by more than >>>> 50%? >>>> >>>> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice >>>> would be appreciated. >>>> >>>> Brian C. Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM >>> BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee >>> American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM) >>> 310-951-8698 (cel) >>> panasiaintl >>> >>> " I think, therefore I am. " >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various >> professional services, >>> including board approved continuing education >> classes, an annual >>> conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese >> Herbal Medicine. >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 why is wu ling zhi taken out? Oakland, CA 94609 - Friday, March 24, 2006 12:50 PM Re: 5:1 powder dose help needed Yes, Thank you very much. On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Christine Chang wrote: > Hi Z¡¦ev > It is no problem, we can discuss any questions & I > will do my best to answer you. > > 1. Zhi Gan Cao Tang: it is available now. > 2. Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San: because of AA in Xi Xin, > KPC tests every batch of every formula which contains > Xi Xin. Today, it is not available but it has been > sent to the USA and then it will be tested in the USA. > AA is tested in Taiwan. > 3. Shao Fu Zhu Yu Tang: for the US market, KPC took > out wu ling zhi and changed the % of other > ingredients. It's abailable for the one without wu > ling zhi. > > Is that ok for your questions? > > Christine > > > > --- <zrosenbe wrote: > >> Christine, >> Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you won't >> mind if I ask >> another question. >> >> I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in >> Albuquerque, and several >> of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, chuan >> xiong cha tiao san >> and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available, >> supposedly because of FDA >> 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is so, >> when and how will >> these products again become available? >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang wrote: >> >>> Hi Brian, >>> >>> I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane Herbs >>> >>> Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high >> concentration >>> powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard dosage >> is >>> 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the dosage >>> depends on the condition of the patients. (again, >> that >>> is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know the >>> quality of those products) , so, 3g x 3times/12 >> days = >>> 108g that will be for the chronic condition, >> higher >>> dosage for the acute conditions. >>> >>> is that answer your question? >>> >>> Christine >>> >>> >>> --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote: >>> >>>> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom formula >>>> from Mayway. >>>> >>>> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day. >>>> >>>> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = >> 21.6g/day >>>> of a 5:1 powder >>>> to equal the raw herb dosing. >>>> >>>> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me to >> use >>>> about 8-10g/day >>>> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered custom >>>> formulas, >>>> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for chronic >>>> conditions. >>>> >>>> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the dose >>>> would be less than >>>> half of what would seem logical. >>>> >>>> I realize their extraction process is superior to >> my >>>> patient's >>>> decoction abilities, but, really, should I cut >> the >>>> dose by more than >>>> 50%? >>>> >>>> I want to get this ordered today, so any advice >>>> would be appreciated. >>>> >>>> Brian C. Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM >>> BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee >>> American Association of Oriental Medicine (AAOM) >>> 310-951-8698 (cel) >>> panasiaintl >>> >>> " I think, therefore I am. " >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various >> professional services, >>> including board approved continuing education >> classes, an annual >>> conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese >> Herbal Medicine. >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 old FDA proverb " don't eat shit " Christine --- <alonmarcus wrote: > why is wu ling zhi taken out? > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > > > Friday, March 24, 2006 12:50 PM > Re: 5:1 powder dose help needed > > > Yes, > Thank you very much. > > > On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Christine Chang > wrote: > > > Hi Z¡¦ev > > It is no problem, we can discuss any questions & > I > > will do my best to answer you. > > > > 1. Zhi Gan Cao Tang: it is available now. > > 2. Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San: because of AA > in Xi Xin, > > KPC tests every batch of every formula which > contains > > Xi Xin. Today, it is not available but it has > been > > sent to the USA and then it will be tested in > the USA. > > AA is tested in Taiwan. > > 3. Shao Fu Zhu Yu Tang: for the US market, > KPC took > > out wu ling zhi and changed the % of other > > ingredients. It's abailable for the one without > wu > > ling zhi. > > > > Is that ok for your questions? > > > > Christine > > > > > > > > --- <zrosenbe wrote: > > > >> Christine, > >> Thank you for posting to CHA. I hope you > won't > >> mind if I ask > >> another question. > >> > >> I get my KPC products from Golden Flower in > >> Albuquerque, and several > >> of your products, such as zhi gan can tang, > chuan > >> xiong cha tiao san > >> and shao fu zhu yu tang are not available, > >> supposedly because of FDA > >> 'holds' on the docks in Long Beach. If this is > so, > >> when and how will > >> these products again become available? > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> > >> On Mar 22, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Christine Chang > wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Brian, > >>> > >>> I am the herbal consultant for KPC and Crane > Herbs > >>> > >>> Regarding the quality of the 5:1 high > >> concentration > >>> powder herbs from KPC Taiwan, the standard > dosage > >> is > >>> 9-12g of powder per day, the range of the > dosage > >>> depends on the condition of the patients. > (again, > >> that > >>> is the extract herbs made in Taiwan, I know > the > >>> quality of those products) , so, 3g x > 3times/12 > >> days = > >>> 108g that will be for the chronic condition, > >> higher > >>> dosage for the acute conditions. > >>> > >>> is that answer your question? > >>> > >>> Christine > >>> > >>> > >>> --- bcataiji <bcataiji wrote: > >>> > >>>> I am ordering a 5:1 extract powder custom > formula > >>>> from Mayway. > >>>> > >>>> The raw herb formula dosing is 108g/day. > >>>> > >>>> In my mind, I should simply divide 108/5 = > >> 21.6g/day > >>>> of a 5:1 powder > >>>> to equal the raw herb dosing. > >>>> > >>>> However, the instructions on Mayway tell me > to > >> use > >>>> about 8-10g/day > >>>> as a standard dose for their 5:1 powdered > custom > >>>> formulas, > >>>> regardless of intended raw herb dose, for > chronic > >>>> conditions. > >>>> > >>>> If I followed the Mayway instructions, the > dose > >>>> would be less than > >>>> half of what would seem logical. > >>>> > >>>> I realize their extraction process is > superior to > >> my > >>>> patient's > >>>> decoction abilities, but, really, should I > cut > >> the > >>>> dose by more than > >>>> 50%? > >>>> > >>>> I want to get this ordered today, so any > advice > >>>> would be appreciated. > >>>> > >>>> Brian C. Allen > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Christine Wei Chang, LAc, MTOM > >>> BOD & Herbal Medicine Committee > >>> American Association of Oriental Medicine > (AAOM) > >>> 310-951-8698 (cel) > >>> panasiaintl > >>> > >>> " I think, therefore I am. " > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various > >> professional services, > >>> including board approved continuing education > >> classes, an annual > >>> conference and a free discussion forum in > Chinese > >> Herbal Medicine. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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