Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Hei Heiko > In New Zealand at the moment the government insurance company is > putting together an injury profile book for acupuncture with a brief > background to Cause, Diagnosis, Complications and Treatment of various > injuries, eg shoulder sprain. The document is under review and there > is a section under complications of one of the injuries called " empty > (cold) stagnation " Would anyone be able to comment on this terminology? > I have never heard of " empty " stagnation? Heiko Lade I cannot find hhits for " empty (cold) stagnation " , but stag of Qi and / or Xue can arise dt deficiency or due to cold. See http://tinyurl.com/gxr5k for Google hits for the profile " stagnation due to cold " OR " stagnation due to deficiency " Best regards, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Sounds just like bad translation to me. It doesn't say stagnation of what, which zang-fu, qi, blood or fluids. On Mar 26, 2006, at 3:02 AM, wrote: > I cannot find hhits for " empty (cold) stagnation " , but stag of Qi > and / or > Xue can arise dt deficiency or due to cold. See http://tinyurl.com/ > gxr5k > for Google hits for the profile " stagnation due to cold " OR > " stagnation > due to deficiency " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 I think you could frame it as stagnation of exogenous cold/damp, you wouldn't need to associate it with an organ since cold and damp can only invade in a defacto vacuity situation, which is generated by injury (vacuity of upright qi in an injured area). I don't know if this is a mainstream TCM idea or not, but it seems to me that the cases of non-union of bone that I've treated all responded well to yang supplementing medicinals while there has been no yang vacuity in the Px whatsoever (other than the fact that their bones won't heal). Treating blood stasis will only go so far and then you need to expel cold and damp, which have accumulated because of vacuity (since there's no other way for them to accumulate) and address the underlying vacuity. This has always worked in the people I've treated, who tend to be under forty, fit and otherwise healthy. The topical formulas I've used to treat chronic injuries are typically: 2 parts tx yang vacuity and materially supplement damaged tissue (e.g., bones for bones), 2 parts expel cold-damp, 1 part nourish blood, 1 part move blood and qi. Par Scott - " " <zrosenbe Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:40 PM Re: empty (cold) stagnation > Sounds just like bad translation to me. It doesn't say stagnation of > what, which zang-fu, qi, blood or fluids. > > > > On Mar 26, 2006, at 3:02 AM, wrote: > >> I cannot find hhits for " empty (cold) stagnation " , but stag of Qi >> and / or >> Xue can arise dt deficiency or due to cold. See http://tinyurl.com/ >> gxr5k >> for Google hits for the profile " stagnation due to cold " OR >> " stagnation >> due to deficiency " > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Lu rong is very important for all nonunions Oakland, CA 94609 - Par Scott Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:10 PM Re: empty (cold) stagnation I think you could frame it as stagnation of exogenous cold/damp, you wouldn't need to associate it with an organ since cold and damp can only invade in a defacto vacuity situation, which is generated by injury (vacuity of upright qi in an injured area). I don't know if this is a mainstream TCM idea or not, but it seems to me that the cases of non-union of bone that I've treated all responded well to yang supplementing medicinals while there has been no yang vacuity in the Px whatsoever (other than the fact that their bones won't heal). Treating blood stasis will only go so far and then you need to expel cold and damp, which have accumulated because of vacuity (since there's no other way for them to accumulate) and address the underlying vacuity. This has always worked in the people I've treated, who tend to be under forty, fit and otherwise healthy. The topical formulas I've used to treat chronic injuries are typically: 2 parts tx yang vacuity and materially supplement damaged tissue (e.g., bones for bones), 2 parts expel cold-damp, 1 part nourish blood, 1 part move blood and qi. Par Scott - " " <zrosenbe Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:40 PM Re: empty (cold) stagnation > Sounds just like bad translation to me. It doesn't say stagnation of > what, which zang-fu, qi, blood or fluids. > > > > On Mar 26, 2006, at 3:02 AM, wrote: > >> I cannot find hhits for " empty (cold) stagnation " , but stag of Qi >> and / or >> Xue can arise dt deficiency or due to cold. See http://tinyurl.com/ >> gxr5k >> for Google hits for the profile " stagnation due to cold " OR >> " stagnation >> due to deficiency " > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Hi everyone Thanks for all those people with input re " empty stagnation " . It will be useful tomorrow with my meeting with the government insurance company. Can anyone tell me if most USA TCM colleges etc have taken on the Wiseman dictionary/translations as a standard for USA? Do National US TCM exams use Wiseman type translations in their questions? I heard that the WHO is considering making Wiseman as the standard language for Chinese medicine. Does anyone know if this has been confirmed etc? Heiko On Behalf Of Par Scott Monday, March 27, 2006 10:11 AM Re: empty (cold) stagnation I think you could frame it as stagnation of exogenous cold/damp, you wouldn't need to associate it with an organ since cold and damp can only invade in a defacto vacuity situation, which is generated by injury (vacuity of upright qi in an injured area). I don't know if this is a mainstream TCM idea or not, but it seems to me that the cases of non-union of bone that I've treated all responded well to yang supplementing medicinals while there has been no yang vacuity in the Px whatsoever (other than the fact that their bones won't heal). Treating blood stasis will only go so far and then you need to expel cold and damp, which have accumulated because of vacuity (since there's no other way for them to accumulate) and address the underlying vacuity. This has always worked in the people I've treated, who tend to be under forty, fit and otherwise healthy. The topical formulas I've used to treat chronic injuries are typically: 2 parts tx yang vacuity and materially supplement damaged tissue (e.g., bones for bones), 2 parts expel cold-damp, 1 part nourish blood, 1 part move blood and qi. Par Scott - " " <zrosenbe Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:40 PM Re: empty (cold) stagnation > Sounds just like bad translation to me. It doesn't say stagnation of > what, which zang-fu, qi, blood or fluids. > > > > On Mar 26, 2006, at 3:02 AM, wrote: > >> I cannot find hhits for " empty (cold) stagnation " , but stag of Qi >> and / or >> Xue can arise dt deficiency or due to cold. See http://tinyurl.com/ >> gxr5k >> for Google hits for the profile " stagnation due to cold " OR >> " stagnation >> due to deficiency " > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 I am teaching " Chinese Medical Language " @ Emperor's College, I am using Wiseman's book to be my reference book in my class, because his English better than my English. Christine --- Heiko Lade <heikocha wrote: > Hi everyone > > Thanks for all those people with input re " empty > stagnation " . It will be > useful tomorrow with my meeting with the government > insurance company. > > Can anyone tell me if most USA TCM colleges etc have > taken on the Wiseman > dictionary/translations as a standard for USA? > > Do National US TCM exams use Wiseman type > translations in their questions? > > I heard that the WHO is considering making Wiseman > as the standard language > for Chinese medicine. Does anyone know if this has > been confirmed etc? > > Heiko > > > > > > On > Behalf Of Par Scott > Monday, March 27, 2006 10:11 AM > > Re: empty (cold) stagnation > > > > I think you could frame it as stagnation of > exogenous cold/damp, you > wouldn't need to associate it with an organ since > cold and damp can only > invade in a defacto vacuity situation, which is > generated by injury (vacuity > > of upright qi in an injured area). I don't know if > this is a mainstream TCM > idea or not, but it seems to me that the cases of > non-union of bone that > I've treated all responded well to yang > supplementing medicinals while there > > has been no yang vacuity in the Px whatsoever (other > than the fact that > their bones won't heal). Treating blood stasis will > only go so far and then > you need to expel cold and damp, which have > accumulated because of vacuity > (since there's no other way for them to accumulate) > and address the > underlying vacuity. This has always worked in the > people I've treated, who > tend to be under forty, fit and otherwise healthy. > The topical formulas I've > > used to treat chronic injuries are typically: 2 > parts tx yang vacuity and > materially supplement damaged tissue (e.g., bones > for bones), 2 parts expel > cold-damp, 1 part nourish blood, 1 part move blood > and qi. > > Par Scott > - > " " <zrosenbe > > Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:40 PM > Re: empty (cold) stagnation > > > > Sounds just like bad translation to me. It > doesn't say stagnation of > > what, which zang-fu, qi, blood or fluids. > > > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2006, at 3:02 AM, wrote: > > > >> I cannot find hhits for " empty (cold) > stagnation " , but stag of Qi > >> and / or > >> Xue can arise dt deficiency or due to cold. See > http://tinyurl.com/ > >> gxr5k > >> for Google hits for the profile " stagnation due > to cold " OR > >> " stagnation > >> due to deficiency " > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various > professional services, including > > board approved continuing education classes, an > annual conference and a > > free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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