Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 > If there are no blood stagnation signs, consider herbs from the class of > gentle activators such as: Dang Gui Dan Pi Dan Shen Sheng Di Huang Hi Al, do you consider sheng di a blood activator? Thanks, Gus Turpin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 No, I don't consider Sheng Di a blood activator, but Dr. Hua-bing Wen does apparently since it comes from his lecture. I'll be if you have access to a database that looks at clotting times, etc. you might find Rehmannia there. I'm guessing that's how it got on to the list, but I don't know for sure. -al. On 4/9/06, Gus Turpin <tonics wrote: > > > If there are no blood stagnation signs, consider herbs from the class > of > > gentle activators such as: Dang Gui Dan Pi Dan Shen Sheng Di Huang > > > Hi Al, do you consider sheng di a blood activator? Thanks, Gus Turpin > -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Paradoxically, Sheng di huang is also indicated to stop bleeding and is one of the 4 shengs in Si Sheng Wan. Perhaps this is similar to the " blood regulating " property of San qi which stops bleeding yet also activates blood circulation to move the blood. Watcha think? Yehuda Al Stone <al wrote: No, I don't consider Sheng Di a blood activator, but Dr. Hua-bing Wen does apparently since it comes from his lecture. I'll be if you have access to a database that looks at clotting times, etc. you might find Rehmannia there. I'm guessing that's how it got on to the list, but I don't know for sure. -al. On 4/9/06, Gus Turpin <tonics wrote: > > > If there are no blood stagnation signs, consider herbs from the class > of > > gentle activators such as: Dang Gui Dan Pi Dan Shen Sheng Di Huang > > > Hi Al, do you consider sheng di a blood activator? Thanks, Gus Turpin > -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Makes sense, thanks. Gus > > No, I don't consider Sheng Di a blood activator, but Dr. Hua-bing Wen does > apparently since it comes from his lecture. I'll be if you have access to a > database that looks at clotting times, etc. you might find Rehmannia there. > I'm guessing that's how it got on to the list, but I don't know for sure. > > -al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 " No, I don't consider Sheng Di a blood activator, but Dr. Hua-bing Wen does apparently since it comes from his lecture. " All the contemporary Chinese Ben Cao of which I am aware list quickening the blood as a secondary function of Sheng Di and I frequently use it for this purpose when the med is ALSO indicated for one of its primary purposes. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 All, Mark Wright, in the recently published RCHM(1) Manual of Drug-Herb Interactions (2nd Version), has the following to say about this discussion: " Warfarin is a 4-hydroxy-coumarin. It's anticoagulant actions are mediated through its inhibition of vitamin K epoxide reductase, which causes the prevention of the re-synthesis of the reduced form of vitamin K necessary for the conversion of clotting factor precursors... " Mills & Bone (2000) say that the C4 hydroxyl group is 'an essential requirement (among others) for [dicoumarol's] powerful anticoagulant activity' and add that its absence accounts for the lack of such activity, to any significant clinical degree, in those coumarins which do not have it. " In other words, although many Chinese medicinals from different plant families contain coumarins, they do not contain the C4 hydroxyl group warfarin does. These coumarins include coumarin, umbelliferone, scopoletin, angelical, osthol and ostole, and angelicone. These coumarins can be found in Compositae, Cruciferae, Hydrangeaceae, Moraceae, Leguminosae, Ritaceae, and Umbelliferae. From the Umbelliferae alone, Wright lists the following commonly used (or eaten) Chinese medicinals: Bai Zhi Dang Gui Du Huo Hu Luo Bo (carrot) Qian Hu Qiang Huo She Chuang Zi Xiao Hui Xiang From Wright's initial discussion, one would surmise that, because these medicinals do not contain the C4 hydroxyl group, they do not potentiate the anti-clotting effects of warfarin. However, to make matters less clear-cut, Wright goes on to cite: 1) Page & Lawrence (1999) who " conclude that the true mechanism of the interaction of coumarins with blood-clotting is unknown. " 2) Chan & Cheung (2000) who suggest that " although coumarins do not by themselves have anticoagulant properties, they do potentiate the anticoagulant actions of warfarin by increasing the affinity of warfarin receptor sites to the drug. " So we're back to the true status of almost all potential Chinese medicinal-Western drug interactions that no one knows for sure. The only actually proven interaction with warfarin that I am aware of is Dan Shen having an additive effect to warfarin. Bob (1) RCHM stands for the Register of Chinese Herbal Medicine which is a professional association representing approximately Chinese medical practitioners in the UK. Their main concerns as an organization are adequate enry and continuing education and Chinese medicinal safety. In terms of these issues, I would say they are ahead of us in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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