Seizing Soap

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave

 

Some EO's (West Indian Bay is a good example) can make soap seize very

quickly. Also personally, I would use less lye (from 5% for most of my

recipes right up to 15% when I am using coconut oil on its own for a sea

lather soap) - I think 3% is fairly high.

How much water are you using?

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/28/2006 9:30:02 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

dlmbrt writes:

 

Don't know about you guys, but I am getting strange symbols on DH (Dave's)

emails. He uses , while I use AOL. has anyone else noticed the same?

Blessings! Kaye

 

 

[Dave:] Jan, I知 glad you told me that because I知 planning a batch of bay

rum soap for my sonç—´ upcoming birthday. I use the low lye discount because

I superfat fairly liberally. I generally use 25%-30% water.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

>>Some EO's (West Indian Bay is a good example) can make soap seize very

quickly. Also personally, I would use less lye...I think 3% is fairly high.

How much water are you using?

 

[Dave:] Jan, I’m glad you told me that because I’m planning a batch of bay

rum soap for my son’s upcoming birthday. I use the low lye discount because

I superfat fairly liberally. I generally use 25%-30% water.

 

_____

 

 

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Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release 3/27/2006

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Raising your water amount would help it not go into heavy trace so

quickly as well.

Have you worked out how much final superfatting you get after you add

the superfatted oils? I usually mix all the oils together (including

superfatting oils) before I add my lyewater.

Shelley

 

David Lambert wrote:

> [Dave:] Jan, I’m glad you told me that because I’m planning a batch of bay

> rum soap for my son’s upcoming birthday. I use the low lye discount because

> I superfat fairly liberally. I generally use 25%-30% water.

>

> _____

>

>

[Guest guest]

Don't know about you guys, but I am getting strange symbols on DH (Dave's)

emails. He uses , while I use AOL. has anyone else noticed the same?

Blessings! Kaye

 

[Dave:] I�ve noticed it too, and I don�t know the explanation. The weird

symbols are mostly apostrophes. Something in , go figure.

 

_____

[Guest guest]

> Raising your water amount would help it not go into heavy trace so

> quickly as well.

[Dave:] That's possible. I generally use around 28% liquid.

 

> Have you worked out how much final superfatting you get after you add

> the superfatted oils? I usually mix all the oils together (including

> superfatting oils) before I add my lyewater.

[Dave:] Yes, the reason I do it that way is because I feel it gives me

greater control. For instance, if I'm superfatting with something exotic

like shea oil, I want more of that in its original form than the base oils.

So I'll make the soap with a fairly low lye discount - 3%, typically - and

add the shea at trace. That way I know that the shea will be mostly intact

in the soap and not saponified. The low discount insures that most of the

lye is already involved in the chemical reaction before I add the

superfatting oils.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

 

I agree with the others. If you just mix with a spoon at the beginning, and

then kind of hit your batch with short bursts of the stick blender to a light

trace you should be fine. I usually don't discount either water or lye, and

superfat only at trace. I, like you, prefer to control the superfatting process

myself.

 

You mentioned doing a bay soap. Did you add any spice oils? That will also

accelerate trace. HTH - Tam

 

David Lambert <dlmbrt wrote:

> Raising your water amount would help it not go into heavy trace so

> quickly as well.

[Dave:] That's possible. I generally use around 28% liquid.

 

> Have you worked out how much final superfatting you get after you add

> the superfatted oils? I usually mix all the oils together (including

> superfatting oils) before I add my lyewater.

[Dave:] Yes, the reason I do it that way is because I feel it gives me

greater control. For instance, if I'm superfatting with something exotic

like shea oil, I want more of that in its original form than the base oils.

So I'll make the soap with a fairly low lye discount - 3%, typically - and

add the shea at trace. That way I know that the shea will be mostly intact

in the soap and not saponified. The low discount insures that most of the

lye is already involved in the chemical reaction before I add the

superfatting oils.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I usually don't discount either water or lye, and superfat only at trace.

I, like you, prefer to control the superfatting process myself.

 

[Dave:] When you say you don’t discount the lye, do you mean you figure a 0%

discount? I keep it low, but I’ve never gone that low. I would, however,

if I was adding a large amount of superfatting oils.

 

You mentioned doing a bay soap. Did you add any spice oils? That will

also accelerate trace

 

[Dave:] I haven’t made bay soap yet. I’m planning that batch for sometime

in the next couple of weeks, though. It’s good to know that I can expect a

fast trace. I’ll boost my water a little, and stay away from the stick

blender. Thanks, Tam!

 

_____

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

 

That's correct - I always formulate at 0% lye discount. I formulate with only

enough coconut oil to get good lather, and choose my base oils for their high

moisturising properties. Even without superfatting, the soap isn't drying to

the skin. Most of the responses I've seen on this list do it differently and

that's ok. This way works really well for me. Their way works for them. I

don't think there is a right or wrong way to formulate or process your batches.

You can just develop what you prefer or need based on your likes and the

conditions you encounter in your geographical location.

 

I suppose I don't have to worry about the higher water amount because we have

dry heat here. I've never noticed it taking a long time for the water to

evaporate when I do CP. I guess you just have to take your climatic conditions

into consideration when you formulate your batches. I imagine in more humid

areas, you might have slower evaporation rates, and might want to discount the

water more. A little bit more water when adding the spice oils is probably a

good idea. And have your mold really close by too when your ready to pour.

 

I just know that I did endless test batches until I came up with the one that

I liked and my testers liked. I formulated 4 oz. batches, and kept changing

the percentages and oil combinations and kept notes on each bar. Play with it

and have fun. You might find that you really do want to keep your lye discount

at 3%, and then additionally superfat up to whatever percentage you want at

trace. Same with the water discount. But the possibilities are endless. For

me figuring it all out is really, really fun. (I know, I know - I can't help

it).

 

There definitely is more than one way to skin a cat. I guess if everyone made

soap in a laboratory under optimally controlled conditions, then there probably

would be a " best way " to formulate that would be standardized. But we're out in

the real world, and there are all kinds of conditions to consider. What's best

for you might not be what's best for someone else and vice versa. Some advice

I've received from others, or read about worked for me. Sometimes it didn't.

But I have tried it all out to see for myself. HTH - Tam

 

 

 

David Lambert <dlmbrt wrote:

I usually don't discount either water or lye, and superfat only at trace.

I, like you, prefer to control the superfatting process myself.

 

[Dave:] When you say you don’t discount the lye, do you mean you figure a 0%

discount? I keep it low, but I’ve never gone that low. I would, however,

if I was adding a large amount of superfatting oils.

 

You mentioned doing a bay soap. Did you add any spice oils? That will

also accelerate trace

 

[Dave:] I haven’t made bay soap yet. I’m planning that batch for sometime

in the next couple of weeks, though. It’s good to know that I can expect a

fast trace. I’ll boost my water a little, and stay away from the stick

blender. Thanks, Tam!

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

But the possibilities are endless. For me figuring it all out is really,

really fun.

 

[Dave:] I feel just the same. I love coming up with new formulas. And

having a feel for how it will turn out even before it goes into the pot

feels like a real achievement. That just comes with practice. At the same

time, I’m constantly learning. There are always surprises.

 

_____

[Guest guest]

At 11:12 AM 3/29/2006, you wrote:

>Yes, the reason I do it that way is because I feel it gives me

>greater control. For instance, if I'm superfatting with something exotic

>like shea oil, I want more of that in its original form than the base oils.

>So I'll make the soap with a fairly low lye discount - 3%, typically - and

>add the shea at trace. That way I know that the shea will be mostly intact

>in the soap and not saponified. The low discount insures that most of the

>lye is already involved in the chemical reaction before I add the

>superfatting oils.

 

Seems to me you are doing it backwards... and don't have a really clear

idea of the TOTAL discount.

 

What I do is run ALL the ingredients thru a lye calculator (I use the one

at www.thesage.com) including what I want to 'retain' for

superfatting. Then I know that I'm between 5 and 8% superfatting.

 

then I proceed the way you do, adding the melted shea (or whatever!) at

light trace.

 

Just seems more accurate to me.

 

 

 

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