SUPERFATTING OILS

[Guest guest]

OK here goes hope I explain this correctly.

When you add oils at light trace to your soap pot they become part of

the mix. --- Even if you do not stir them in very well or for a long time.

They all go into the mold and sit there together and become soap.

*IMHO it makes no difference when they are added, at light trace or with

all the other oils before you add the lye water.

*

What accounts for the amount of super fatting (oil that does not become

soap so to speak) is the amount of lye you use.

With a " O " super fat you try to turn all the oils into soap (this in NOT

RECOMMENDED)

If you use a 5% super fat level then you are allowing the

unsapponifiable portion of some of the oils to roam around freely in

your bar of soap and therefore make your bar a bit more moisturizing.

 

What you do to achieve this 5% level of super fat is to discount from

the " 0 " amount needed to turn oil into soap.

FOR EXAMPLE:

Say you are making 100% olive oil soap

At " 0 " super fat you would use 13.40 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap

At 5% super fat you would use 12.73 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap.

At 8% super fat you would use 12.33 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap.

 

This is called taking a lye discount. It allows some parts of the olive

oil to not become soap.

Soapers commonly refer to the **lye discount** as the amount of super fat.

 

If you do not count your super fatting oils when you determine your lye

discount/super fat then you are in effect using an even larger discount

or obtaining an even higher super fat level.

 

--

Be Well,

 

Bobbi Guerra

www.thepurplesage.com

sales

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Bobbi! Thank you for this most excellent explanation...I was beginning to become

very confused by this thread & all the discount this & discount that...your

explanation is the way that I understood this to be...I always questioned when

people said they added their superfatting oil at trace so that it wouldn't

saponify...(I'm certainly no chemist & don't pretend to know what I'm talking

about) but this didn't make sense to me because it is still " raw " soap at trace

& the chemical reaction to become soap hadn't taken place until after a period

of time...(in my case after the cook...since I do HP)...

 

Thank you again for explaining this so well & making it easy to understand. I'm

saving your post to keep in my file for my future reference...

donna

Donna Buchholz

Something Different Soap & Things

www.somethingdifferentsoap.com

-

Bobbi

OK here goes hope I explain this correctly.

When you add oils at light trace to your soap pot they become part of

the mix. --- Even if you do not stir them in very well or for a long time.

They all go into the mold and sit there together and become soap.

*IMHO it makes no difference when they are added, at light trace or with

all the other oils before you add the lye water.

*

What accounts for the amount of super fatting (oil that does not become

soap so to speak) is the amount of lye you use.

With a " O " super fat you try to turn all the oils into soap (this in NOT

RECOMMENDED)

If you use a 5% super fat level then you are allowing the

unsapponifiable portion of some of the oils to roam around freely in

your bar of soap and therefore make your bar a bit more moisturizing.

 

What you do to achieve this 5% level of super fat is to discount from

the " 0 " amount needed to turn oil into soap.

FOR EXAMPLE:

Say you are making 100% olive oil soap

At " 0 " super fat you would use 13.40 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap

At 5% super fat you would use 12.73 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap.

At 8% super fat you would use 12.33 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap.

 

This is called taking a lye discount. It allows some parts of the olive

oil to not become soap.

Soapers commonly refer to the **lye discount** as the amount of super fat.

 

If you do not count your super fatting oils when you determine your lye

discount/super fat then you are in effect using an even larger discount

or obtaining an even higher super fat level.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

*IMHO it makes no difference when they are added, at light trace or with

all the other oils before you add the lye water.

 

[Dave:] I have to disagree, and I hope we can do so amicably. We can agree

to disagree, and there�s no hard feelings on my part, but here�s why I

don�t

think you are correct. Let�s use your example of a pure olive oil soap. If

you figure your lye discount at 5%, this means that 95% of the olive oil (or

combination of base oils) will be saponified, and 5% of the oil remains in

its original form, dispersed throughout the soap. If you add your

superfatting oils to the pot at the beginning and not adjusted your lye

amount, first of all you�ve thrown the calculation off and you really don�t

know what percent of which oils remain unsaponified. If you add your

superfatting oils to the pot at the beginning and DO adjust the lye, they

are no longer superfatting oils, but part of the base oils mixture.

 

Returning to the 5% lye discount � 95% of the oil being saponified and 5%

remaining suspended in the solution � if you add your superfatting oils at

trace, most of the lye is already involved in the chemical reaction, and

therefore the majority of the oils you added will remain in suspension.

This is the whole point of superfatting. Superfatting is generally done

with specialty oils that you wish to impart their special qualities to the

soap. You don�t want them saponified. If your plan is to superfat with

more olive oil, then you would simply discount the lye to reflect the

percent of oil you wish to remain in suspension. But adding all the oils at

the beginning is, by definition, not superfatting. And it�s using and

controlling the combination of lye discount and superfatting to create the

exact combination of effects that you desire that is the heart of the art of

making soap.

 

At least that�s my take on it.

 

_____

[Guest guest]

Hi Bobbi,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap You'll see that Wikipedia states in the

last sentence of the Handmade Soap section: " Often, emollients such as jojoba

oil or shea butter are added 'at trace' (the point at which the saponification

process is sufficiently advanced that the soap has begun to thicken), after most

of the oils have saponified, so that they remain unreacted in the finished

soap. " The underlining under " remain unreacted in the finished soap " is mine.

 

This page http://www.lisabarger.com/soapmaking.htm under Lesson 2: The

Science of Soap references Dr. Bob McDaniel's book " Essentially Soap " . Dr.

McDaniel is a chemist who worked in the commercial soap industry for years until

he began his own handcrafted soap business. He very simply explains the

chemistry of making soap. I studied this book and other sources until I

completely understood chemically how soap comes to be, and the properties of the

oils I use in it.

 

You're doing exactly the same thing I'm doing. We just superfat at different

points in the process. You get a product that is superfat with a certain

percentage of ALL the oils in your formula. I get to superfat completely with

the oil/s of my choosing. BTW, I can calculate to 1/10% the amount of superfat

I'll add to the batch. I just use the old fashioned kind of calculator. It

really is a matter of personal preference. Neither way is wrong, they're just

different from each other. Tam

 

Bobbi <herbalsoaplady wrote:

OK here goes hope I explain this correctly.

When you add oils at light trace to your soap pot they become part of

the mix. --- Even if you do not stir them in very well or for a long time.

They all go into the mold and sit there together and become soap.

*IMHO it makes no difference when they are added, at light trace or with

all the other oils before you add the lye water.

*

What accounts for the amount of super fatting (oil that does not become

soap so to speak) is the amount of lye you use.

With a " O " super fat you try to turn all the oils into soap (this in NOT

RECOMMENDED)

If you use a 5% super fat level then you are allowing the

unsapponifiable portion of some of the oils to roam around freely in

your bar of soap and therefore make your bar a bit more moisturizing.

 

What you do to achieve this 5% level of super fat is to discount from

the " 0 " amount needed to turn oil into soap.

FOR EXAMPLE:

Say you are making 100% olive oil soap

At " 0 " super fat you would use 13.40 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap

At 5% super fat you would use 12.73 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap.

At 8% super fat you would use 12.33 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap.

 

This is called taking a lye discount. It allows some parts of the olive

oil to not become soap.

Soapers commonly refer to the **lye discount** as the amount of super fat.

 

If you do not count your super fatting oils when you determine your lye

discount/super fat then you are in effect using an even larger discount

or obtaining an even higher super fat level.

 

--

Be Well,

 

Bobbi Guerra

www.thepurplesage.com

sales

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Okay, you got my brain's attention, but still staring stupidly into

space, but hey it's a start. Good explanation.

 

Michele Madison Robles

Danaomi Scents

[Guest guest]

I sent this a couple of days ago, and now I understand that there probably were

some problems with . So here it is again. Tam

 

Hi Bobbi,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap You'll see that Wikipedia states in the

last sentence of the Handmade Soap section: " Often, emollients such as jojoba

oil or shea butter are added 'at trace' (the point at which the saponification

process is sufficiently advanced that the soap has begun to thicken), after most

of the oils have saponified, so that they remain unreacted in the finished

soap. " The underlining under " remain unreacted in the finished soap " is mine.

 

This page http://www.lisabarger.com/soapmaking.htm under Lesson 2: The

Science of Soap references Dr. Bob McDaniel's book " Essentially Soap " . Dr.

McDaniel is a chemist who worked in the commercial soap industry for years until

he began his own handcrafted soap business. He very simply explains the

chemistry of making soap. I studied this book and other sources (mainly

chemists) until I completely understood chemically how soap comes to be, and the

properties of the oils I use in it.

 

You're doing exactly the same thing I'm doing. We just superfat at different

points in the process. You get a product that is superfat with a certain

percentage of ALL the oils in your formula. I get to superfat completely with

the oil/s of my choosing. BTW, I can calculate to 1/10% the amount of superfat

I'll add to the batch, so I know exactly how much oil I'm adding over and above

what is being used by the lye to saponify soap.. You do that on an online

calculator. I use the old fashioned kind of calculator. It really is a matter

of personal preference. Neither way is wrong, they're just different from each

other. Tam

 

Bobbi <herbalsoaplady wrote:

OK here goes hope I explain this correctly.

When you add oils at light trace to your soap pot they become part of

the mix. --- Even if you do not stir them in very well or for a long time.

They all go into the mold and sit there together and become soap.

*IMHO it makes no difference when they are added, at light trace or with

all the other oils before you add the lye water.

*

What accounts for the amount of super fatting (oil that does not become

soap so to speak) is the amount of lye you use.

With a " O " super fat you try to turn all the oils into soap (this in NOT

RECOMMENDED)

If you use a 5% super fat level then you are allowing the

unsapponifiable portion of some of the oils to roam around freely in

your bar of soap and therefore make your bar a bit more moisturizing.

 

What you do to achieve this 5% level of super fat is to discount from

the " 0 " amount needed to turn oil into soap.

FOR EXAMPLE:

Say you are making 100% olive oil soap

At " 0 " super fat you would use 13.40 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap

At 5% super fat you would use 12.73 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap.

At 8% super fat you would use 12.33 ounces of lye for a 100 ounce batch

of olive oil soap.

 

This is called taking a lye discount. It allows some parts of the olive

oil to not become soap.

Soapers commonly refer to the **lye discount** as the amount of super fat.

 

If you do not count your super fatting oils when you determine your lye

discount/super fat then you are in effect using an even larger discount

or obtaining an even higher super fat level.

 

--

Be Well,

 

Bobbi Guerra

www.thepurplesage.com

sales