The great debate

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your expertise and your generosity in sharing your

learning, Martin. At the same time, I question the effectiveness of

the tone you use to communicate your point of view.

 

I am learning a great deal from this group (and from materials I have

purchased from you). I am old enough and thick-skinned enough that I

enjoy learning from multiple sources and competing perspectives and

don't mind being the target of criticism. In fact, I welcome it.

Still, if I were Debbie, I would wonder what I had done to deserve

what feels like an attack rather than collegial debate. I understand

that you do not regard her (or me, I would imagine, and for good

reason) a colleague in terms of aromatherapeutic learning and

experience, yet I suggest that we are colleagues in the context of

this listserv.

 

I hope we can look forward to benefiting more from your wisdom and

suffering less from your sarcasm.

 

Respectfully,

 

Molly

 

 

 

 

 

Molly Gordon, MCC

Shaboom Inc., Life could be a dream...

360-697-7022

mgordon

lists

www.authenticpromotion.com

www.shaboominc.com/blog

[Guest guest]

Just to stick my nose in:

Personally I cannot imagine anyone being knowledgeable in the area of

essential oils who does not know of Martin Watt and his expertise. I

don't say this to suck up, but face it, he is a leading authority in

the field of botanicals and their chemical constituents. Anyone who is

getting a good range of information in the field would know

what " makes him an expert " .

 

When you talk of competing perspectives, it is important to note that

some information is not a matter of opinion or perspective, it is a

matter of scientific fact backed by the necessary research.

 

Anyone who is offering anything that is to heal or provide health

benefits should take a good long look at the Hypocratic oath. " DO NO

HARM "

 

Making unvalidated claims does harm as does dispensing information

that has not been validated. Blanket statements like:

 

>Essential oils are >>taken directly into the blood stream; they

have a positive

>>effect on blood circulation, helping to bring oxygen and

>>nutrients to the tissues whilst assisting in the disposal

>>of carbon dioxide and other waste materials.

 

Are rubbish and I don't think it is sarcasm to say so. In my study of

cosmetic chemistry and herbalism I have benefitted from the knowledge

of many professional chemists, and it is very difficult for them to

remain silent when someone speaks with the voice of authority, yet

they have neither the experience, expertise or scientific evidence to

be an authority. It may seem harsh, but it is honest and it is wise to

take the opportunity to learn from them. Like any good teacher, they

may rap you on the knuckles, but it is in the interest of making sure

you " get " the lesson. Misinformation does the entire industry harm,

and it has the potential to do individual harm.

 

In this age of the Internet it has become very easy for inaccurate

information that borders on being folklore to be widely circulated as

fact. As much as it can enable education, it also enables ignorance.

Choose your information wisely and seek verification from professional

sources.

Joanne

 

 

, " Molly Gordon, MCC " <lists

wrote:

>

> I appreciate your expertise and your generosity in sharing your

> learning, Martin. At the same time, I question the effectiveness of

> the tone you use to communicate your point of view.

>

> I am learning a great deal from this group (and from materials I

have

> purchased from you). I am old enough and thick-skinned enough that

I

> enjoy learning from multiple sources and competing perspectives and

> don't mind being the target of criticism. In fact, I welcome it.

> Still, if I were Debbie, I would wonder what I had done to deserve

> what feels like an attack rather than collegial debate.

[Guest guest]

I usually don't get involved in these skirmishes, but after thinking about

this all day I must. There are a lot of newbies on this list and I don't want

them getting information from your website and utilizing it. Debbie - I have

to agree with Martin and Graham. Your website is giving very poor and

misleading information. Your page on mugwort essential oil is out and out

dangerous. Mugwort EO has no business in the Aromatherapy field. I can tell

you

what book you took 90% of your information from. (Hope you have permission from

the author or at least paid for it.) The information you posted on your

website is for the herb mugwort not the Essential oil Mugwort. Two completely

different products and usage. Also, crushed mugwort leaves (the actual dried

leaves) are used by some for sleep pillows or to just smell for psychic

awareness or dreams and/or for astral projection. Even the fluffy herbal

pillow

making people give warnings. The scent from these dried leaves can do this -

imaging what the extremely highly concentrated essential oil can do. You

state on your site that Mugwort EO is a tonic for the uterus. In reality, it's

an abortifacient (the EO) which means it will cause an abortion. The one

piece of information you didn't use from the book you took the rest of the

information from.

 

The first thing you really need to learn is that there is a major difference

between essential oils and using the herbs themselves.

 

I would be interested in seeing who you have trained with and what books are

in your reference library. Also, a case study from one of your clients.

Especially, since you are considering yourself to be an equal to Martin Watt on

the professional level. And what lab are you using to perform your GC

testing on all your oil batches?

 

There are numerous things I could pick apart on your website. I am not

personally attacking and I don't sell any of these products expect for some

books

and lamps that I really need to move out of my inventory. Martin has made

it his life's purpose to try to educate people on these type of websites. I'm

educated to know you don't have a clue about the use of medical plants in

any form.

 

Also on this list, Thursday is ad day with an opening of ad in the subject

line. You have just recently joined this list and seem to be here only to

promote your own website. I have read posts by other newbies who don't have

money to buy books and will probably use your website as a reference. I pray

this does not happen. And I pray you do no harm to yourself, your family or

your clients. Herbs and essential oils are wonderful gifts from Mother Earth -

please learn to use and respect them before you really hurt someone innocent.

 

Green Blessings

Patty Corapi

 

PS. Martin is our resident crusty troll - he just states it and lets the

chips fall where they may. Once you're on the list awhile if either of you

stay

you will learn. I have been on some pretty hot lists with some of these

guys and believe you me this was nothing. A glass of water wasn't even needed

to

put it out. LOL

 

 

 

There are

 

In a message dated 6/18/2006 7:47:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,

debbie writes:

 

 

 

Hello Joanne:

 

I appreciate your input and would appreciate Martin's input as well if

he were to give it in a respectful manner. I find that you catch more

flies with honey then you do with vinigar.

 

Debbie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Joanne:

 

I appreciate your input and would appreciate Martin's input as well if

he were to give it in a respectful manner. I find that you catch more

flies with honey then you do with vinigar.

 

Debbie

[Guest guest]

I wasn't too sure about this list when I joined, but I am pleased to

see this response. We are here to learn, at least that is my

understanding, not to hold hands, do group hugs or attract flies. I

hope Martin remains on this list, as I want to learn from the best,

and if my knuckles were to be rapped for dispensing misinformation,

I would consider it an honor to have Martin do the rapping. It's

nice to know that you support maintaining the highest level of

honesty and information on the list. This post was not meant to be

negative, but sometimes our best lessons are also the hardest to

take.

Joanne

 

, PACorapi wrote:

> Herbs and essential oils are wonderful gifts from Mother Earth -

> please learn to use and respect them before you really hurt

someone innocent.

>

> Green Blessings

> Patty Corapi

 

> In a message dated 6/18/2006 7:47:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> debbie writes:

 

> Hello Joanne:

>

> I appreciate your input and would appreciate Martin's input as

well if

> he were to give it in a respectful manner. I find that you catch

more

> flies with honey then you do with vinigar.

>

> Debbie

[Guest guest]

I've been thinking about this topic all day also. I'm usually a lurker but

would like to add my own two cents.

I have a small aromatherapy business in South Florida and teach aromatherapy

from there. In my current class I have 3 students who 'trained' with Young

Living. All three of them tried the treatment Gary Young devised with straight

eo's on the spine (sorry, don't know the mix or the name of the treatment) and

two of the three reported an excruciating burning feeling in the areas the oils

were applied. All of these people had a practice going based on their

'training' with YL and reported that several of their clients complained of the

same pain from the oils. Why a person would keep doing something that hurts or

use it on a client is beyond my comprehension...All three of these students

claimed truly unbelievable massage benefits and benefits from wrapping with

essential oils. The information they were spreading was rather frightening

when I thought about them out in the public venue.

I give extra credit for any student who can open a discussion from an article

from Martin's site, Chris' site or can describe Butch's trips to the rose

fields. I give my students prizes if they log onto this group every week and

can tell me the topics of discussion. I find that this list provides a place

were newbies can glean good, solid, accurate information from people who really

are in the know in the world of aromatherapy, an area which is growing by leaps

and bounds in the U.S. everyday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have been following this line of discussion very closely. Being new

to using essential oils, I am not sure what sources that I should

trust. I bought two books that I thought would be helpful, however,

after hearing this debate and about many people not really knowing what

they are talking about, I don't know if I should trust this

information. Martin, perhaps you could help me. If you have heard of

these books and/or the people that have written them, as to how

reliable they are as a source of good information. The first book is

called 500 Formulas for Aromatherepy (Mixing Essential Oils for Every

Use) by Carol & David Schiller. The other one is called The Complete

Book of Essential Oils & Aromatherapy by Valerie Ann Worwood. What

other books and/or websites would you recommend for those of us that

want to learn? And which ones should we stay away from??

 

Thanks so much for you help, since I would like to learn it right the

first time :-)

 

Donna