Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 When making green tea soap, (or any type of herbal soap) in order to get the most benifits from the tea, is there any difference in whether you infuse the tea for your lye bath, or if you add it powdered. Or should I do both? for example: if I use an oil infusion OR a tea infusion OR powdered. Obviously you get most if you use all three, but if you use just one, which would be most effective? And when you use it as your lye bath, is it better to use a smaller amount of water to mix the lye and then add the tea seperately, or do you just mix the lye in the tea? Or would the lye damage some of the goodness in the tea?...Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 if I use an oil infusion OR a tea infusion OR powdered. Obviously you get most if you use all three, but if you use just one, which would be most effective? [Dave:] Depends on what you wish to achieve. If you simply want the color and aroma of the tea in your soap, you might use the tea infusion. If you wanted the antioxidant benefits the nutrients to be available to the skin, you might prefer the oil infusion. But if you wanted your product to gently exfoliate, you would add the powdered herb. And when you use it as your lye bath, is it better to use a smaller amount of water to mix the lye and then add the tea seperately, or do you just mix the lye in the tea? Or would the lye damage some of the goodness in the tea?... [Dave:] I use a lot of green tea in my soaps, and I generally brew up a strong batch and add my lye to this. However, the chemical reaction is pretty brutal. I expect the tea to be changed in ways I don’t fully understand – I do know I wouldn’t drink it! I use all three of the methods you discussed, not just for tea but for most of my herbal ingredients – depending on the specific benefits I hope to achieve. -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release 6/16/2006 -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release 6/16/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 Thanks Dave, this is exactly what I wanted to know :-) Also, thanks for your insight on my curing question...Donna , " David Lambert " <dlmbrt wrote: > > > [Dave:] Depends on what you wish to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 When talking about " benefits " you need to be specific. --- In , " dzmg2000 " <dzmg wrote: > > When making green tea soap, (or any type of herbal soap) in order to > get the most benifits from the tea, is there any difference in whether > you infuse the tea for your lye bath, or if you add it powdered. Or > should I do both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 When discussing " benefits " you need to be very specific as to what you are asking about. The reality is that soap is a wash off product and is not intended to do anything other than clean. As soon as you want to create " benefits " you are crossing into the realm of cosmetics and drugs. I don't know of any testing or analysis of what green tea really does in soap, no matter in what form. I would be interested in seeing the results of an analysis of what chemical constituants, if any, survive the high temperatures and alkaline conditions of soapmaking. If they survive intact, it would be a matter of faith to think there is anything in the soap that will " benefit " the skin as a result of the tea. Soap does not remain in contact with the skin for any length of time. As for a lye bath, it changes the chemistry of anything that is added to it, for example, silk fiber is broken down into amino acids, anything that is acidic would be neutralized, and you know what happens to fatty acids. Will lye damage the goodness of the tea? Hard to know unless you know what exactly is the " goodness " . So if you want green tea in soap, I suspect it will not matter how you get it in there, without testing and analysis you will not know if there is any benefit at all. Joanne , " dzmg2000 " <dzmg wrote: > > When making green tea soap, (or any type of herbal soap) in order to > get the most benifits from the tea, is there any difference in whether > you infuse the tea for your lye bath, or if you add it powdered. Or > should I do both? > > for example: > > if I use an oil infusion OR a tea infusion OR powdered. Obviously you > get most if you use all three, but if you use just one, which would be > most effective? > > > And when you use it as your lye bath, is it better to use a smaller > amount of water to mix the lye and then add the tea seperately, or do > you just mix the lye in the tea? Or would the lye damage some of the > goodness in the tea?...Donna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 When discussing " benefits " you need to be very specific as to what you are asking about. The reality is that soap is a wash off product and is not intended to do anything other than clean. [Dave:] Joanne, you’ve expressed a basic truth very well. There’s entirely too much folklore concerning “benefits” of herbs in soaps. Nevertheless, the fact that one soap leaves your skin feeling moisturized and supple while another causes it to feel scratchy and dry suggests that there are indeed benefits of some kind. In addition, the fact that many people with conditions such as psoriasis and acne have received relief from carefully formulated soaps bolsters this supposition. The problem is, we really have only a foggy idea of how these benefits are achieved. If we knew it all, then soapmaking would be all science and no art. As it is, there are cooks, and there are chefs. Some are able to create soaps that truly enhance our lives, while others’ soaps are just pretty or simply smell nice. I don’t think there is any of us who doesn’t have lots to learn. I’m just glad so many of us are willing and eager to share our experience. -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release 6/16/2006 -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release 6/16/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 I foung that I don't like to add the lye to the herbal infusion as I've had it " erupt " on me. Not good. So, I use a little water with the lye and save my very strong tea or infusion to add just after I mix the oils and lye. I also like to use infused oils. And of course if you like a bit of a exfoliating bar of soap, then add some powdered or ground. As far as effectiveness, I'm not sure on that one. Margaret www.naturalindulgences.com > >When making green tea soap, (or any type of herbal soap) in order to >get the most benifits from the tea, is there any difference in whether >you infuse the tea for your lye bath, or if you add it powdered. Or >should I do both? > >for example: > >if I use an oil infusion OR a tea infusion OR powdered. Obviously you >get most if you use all three, but if you use just one, which would be >most effective? > > >And when you use it as your lye bath, is it better to use a smaller >amount of water to mix the lye and then add the tea seperately, or do >you just mix the lye in the tea? Or would the lye damage some of the >goodness in the tea?...Donna > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 Maybe I'm strange here, but when I make my white tea soap I try to protect the goodies in the tea by freezing it, much like I would when making a milk soap. Serra On 6/17/06, dzmg2000 <dzmg wrote: > When making green tea soap, (or any type of herbal soap) in order to > get the most benifits from the tea, is there any difference in whether > you infuse the tea for your lye bath, or if you add it powdered. Or > should I do both? > > for example: > > if I use an oil infusion OR a tea infusion OR powdered. Obviously you > get most if you use all three, but if you use just one, which would be > most effective? > > And when you use it as your lye bath, is it better to use a smaller > amount of water to mix the lye and then add the tea seperately, or do > you just mix the lye in the tea? Or would the lye damage some of the > goodness in the tea?...Donna > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 when I make my white tea soap I try to protect the goodies in the tea by freezing it, much like I would when making a milk soap. [Dave:] Makes sense to me. I bring any liquid I use down to nearly frozen before I add the lye. How much it protects the goods, I don’t know. -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release 6/16/2006 -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release 6/16/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 At 08:00 PM 6/18/2006, you wrote: >I foung that I don't like to add the lye to the herbal infusion as I've had >it " erupt " on me. Not good. So, I use a little water with the lye and save >my very strong tea or infusion to add just after I mix the oils and lye. I >also like to use infused oils. but... adding water to lye can cause the 'volcano' as well. Lye should ALWAYS be added to the water, tea, hydrosol, or other liquid, not the other way around... Over 10 years online supplying Aromatherapy and Healthcare Professionals Essential Oils, Hydrosols, Accessories, Hard to find Books and Videos <http://www.naturesgift.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 In a message dated 6/18/2006 2:14:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jwittenbrook writes: When discussing " benefits " you need to be very specific as to what you are asking about. The reality is that soap is a wash off product and is not intended to do anything other than clean. As soon as you want to create " benefits " you are crossing into the realm of cosmetics and drugs. I don't know about benefits, BUT I do know this from personal experience: I use brewed green tea for my water part of my soap and then add powdered green tea leaves after I've hit a heavy trace. It makes a nice soap and from what I've noticed and the few others that I've had try it, it seems very soothing to sunburn skin. It all may be psychosomatic, I don't know, but it worked great the other night on my sunburn! JMHO )) MIchelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Yes, Lye should always be added to the liquid. I didn't mean to make it sound like using a little water with the lye meant that I added a little water to the lye. I'd never do that!! I just meant that I use less water and save the herbal infusion to add at light trace, rather than adding my lye to it. Hope that wasn't confusing. lol Margaret >>Not good. So, I use a little water with the lye and save > >my very strong tea or infusion to add just after I mix the oils and lye. I > >also like to use infused oils. > > but... adding water to lye can cause the 'volcano' as well. > > Lye should ALWAYS be added to the water, tea, hydrosol, or other liquid, > not the other way around... > > > > > Over 10 years online supplying Aromatherapy and Healthcare Professionals > Essential Oils, Hydrosols, Accessories, Hard to find Books and Videos > <http://www.naturesgift.com> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 This is an interesting topic as well, and would like to get other saponifiers imput as well. What benifit would the green tea do in a soap, that is a wash off product? ie, would it stay on the skin long enough to benifit? That is the question I put to myself any time I think about putting herbs, eo's etc. in a new soap. I use essential oils primarily for their theraputic scent. Herbs, like Calendula, it's moisturizing quality or to make a prettier bar as it doesn't change color. I should back up here because I do use ground fresh ginger in a bar, and also yucca root, but those too add to the benifits of the bar of soap. I do infuse some herbs into olive oil for their scent, like chamomile, when I cannot afford to use even 1/4th an ounce per lb. of oil. Any imput here would be great, as I too love to learn, and I've been soaping now for about 7 years. If I were to use green tea, it might be in a salve. Regards, Anita . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 [Dave:] I use a lot of green tea in my soaps, and I generally brew up a strong batch and add my lye to this. However, the chemical reaction is pretty brutal. I expect the tea to be changed in ways I don’t fully understand – I do know I wouldn’t drink it! I use all three of the methods you discussed, not just for tea but for most of my herbal ingredients – depending on the specific benefits I hope to achieve. Dave, Thanks for this imput. If I understand you correctly then you are saying that the benifit of the antioxidents in the green tea are benificial enough to use in a wash off product? Or are you using the tea more for color and scent? Not disagreeing with you, just curious! Always learning, Anita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Dave, If I understand you correctly then you are saying that the benifit of the antioxidents in the green tea are benificial enough to use in a wash off product? Or are you using the tea more for color and scent? Not disagreeing with you, just curious! Always learning, Anita [Dave:] Anita, this is a gray area to me. I’ll tell you what I believe, and perhaps others will chime in. I know of no “proof” that benefits such as the antioxidants in green tea have any effect at all on the skin when used in a wash-off product. On the other hand, I believe that at least some of these benefits do exist. For instance, my granddaughter says that her acne improves when she uses my calendula/chamomile facial soap. One or two other people have raved about some of my goat milk soaps, and stated that this or that skin condition improved. So it’s pretty plain to me that some of the virtues inherent in the herbs are being used. What I don’t know is how much, as compared to a stay-on product like a lotion or salve. In other words, my experience indicates to me that using beneficial herbs in soap works – but being honest, I have to say that my experience is subjective. If anyone knows of any studies that support or weaken this argument, I’d love to know about them. -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release 6/16/2006 -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release 6/19/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 >I do use ground fresh ginger in a bar, and also yucca root [Dave:] Now this is interesting to me, as I have thought of using yucca root in a shampoo, but not tried it. Would you be willing to expand on your experience with this? BTW yucca root is one of our favorite vegetables, and we prefer it to potatoes. -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release 6/16/2006 -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release 6/19/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 , " plumberboyfamily " <naturalindulgences wrote: > > I use less water and save the herbal infusion to add at light trace, When using less water to dissolve the lye so that you can use some other type of liquid as well (tea, milk, etc.), how small of an amount of water can you use to safely & completely dissolve the lye? for example, if you were using 4 oz of lye with a total of 8 oz of liquid, how much of that liquid needs to be water to properly dilute?...Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 , " Anita R " <anita-r wrote: What are the benifits of these two ingredients? > > I should back up here because I do use ground fresh ginger in a bar, and also yucca root, but those too add to the benifits of the bar of soap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Benifits of ginger: Before I bought the oil, I used, and still use if for color and scent. One small hand of ginger to every 5 lbs. of soap oils. Yucca: I use it in a shampoo bar. this is the only soap I do HP. The chunks of yucca turn to a gel when cooked, and adds to the lather. ( Native Americans used yucca for their soap and shampoo.) It stays a gel within the bar, and besides being a lathering agent, looks kool in the bar. And before anyone asks, I have not had a ranid, or mold problem with it. Anita , " Anita R " <anita-r wrote: What are the benifits of these two ingredients? > > I should back up here because I do use ground fresh ginger in a bar, and also yucca root, but those too add to the benifits of the bar of soap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 In a message dated 6/21/2006 3:24:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, anita-r writes: Yucca: I use it in a shampoo bar. this is the only soap I do HP. The chunks of yucca turn to a gel when cooked, and adds to the lather. ( Native Americans used yucca for their soap and shampoo.) It stays a gel within the bar, and besides being a lathering agent, looks kool in the bar Anita!! can I ask a question?? I have powdered yucca root, and was wondering if it could be added to my shampoo bars. Will it still work the same? TIA )) Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Anita, where do you get chunks of yucca? Does the HP do a better job on it than CP? It sounds like lovely soap! ~Pamela On Behalf Of Anita R Wednesday, June 21, 2006 7:28 AM >> SNIP << Yucca: I use it in a shampoo bar. this is the only soap I do HP. The chunks of yucca turn to a gel when cooked, and adds to the lather. ( Native Americans used yucca for their soap and shampoo.) It stays a gel within the bar, and besides being a lathering agent, looks kool in the bar. And before anyone asks, I have not had a ranid, or mold problem with it. Anita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 I use half the amount of water the recipe calls for to mix with the lye. I've used about 3/4 of the recipe as well, just depends on what I'm adding. I'm not sure about the safely and completely dissolve part. I just know what I've done and whether it worked or not. I'm still not getting my mail from the list so sorry if I miss something. Margaret > > When using less water to dissolve the lye so that you can use some > other type of liquid as well (tea, milk, etc.), how small of an amount > of water can you use to safely & completely dissolve the lye? for > example, if you were using 4 oz of lye with a total of 8 oz of liquid, > how much of that liquid needs to be water to properly dilute?...Donna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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