Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 This is at least 5 years old, but for newcomers it may contain some useful information. - Someone questioned my statements that; " therapeutic actions from a herbal preparation are frequently unjustified when the same plants oil is used " . This is a highly complex issue and not something the vast majority of aromatherapy writers have investigated properly. As most of you know by now, I am adamant that many of the properties that the authors and teachers give oils are not correct. This is because in the majority of cases they give exactly the same therapeutic uses for the externally applied oil as the herbal preparation given internally. I will just give a couple of examples of traditional versus modern use. JASMIN. The flowers have an ancient herbal use tradition as well as for their beautiful perfume. Jasmin is one of those plants that has had huge of amounts of research devoted to all aspects of its horticulture, production and chemistry. The chemistry varies dramatically between the growing flowers, the picked flowers and the absolute. For example it has been found that flowers picked at night contain over 4 times more indole than in daytime picked flowers. Other chemicals only appear in the living or picked flowers and are absent from the absolute or oil. In herbal medicine in the past, and still in some societies, a vital part of the training is to be educated as to when a herb is best picked to give the desired therapeutic or poisonous result. This is why a good deal of astrology was woven into herbal practice more in the past than now. Herbalists then were more aware of the importance for when herbs should be gathered of: time of day/night, the moon and stars cycles; the weather; growing locations, etc. Theophrastus recorded some of this ancient knowledge in his books. They knew that effects observed in practical use varied, although they did not know the actual chemistry. So getting back to Jasmin. If the Indian herbalists picked the flowers at dawn, at night, or in the day, then the *conditions treated* may well differ. When these therapeutic treatments were recorded and then translated into English it is quiet obvious that important information such as gathering time was often omitted. We commonly find the same missing information in Chinese medicine and Native American medicine. Not only do we get the difference between the traditional use as herbal infusions, etc. compared to the use of the essential oil/absolute externally, but we also get these huge differences in chemistry depending on when the plant is picked. It is from herbal books that most aromatherapy authors get much of their information. A few (a very few) included information from the old pharmacopoeias for the use of essential oils. These older uses were generally for the internal consumption of the oils, with little relevance to external application in routine aromatherapy. In some cases the general actions of herbs versus oils do correlate for a limited number of conditions. For example a drop of peppermint oil will calm a minor stomach upset as also will a cup of peppermint tea. However, the many other actions of the peppermint tea such as an astringent action on the gut lining which helps calm diarrhoea can not be expected from the essential oil. Therefore, when I see it suggested that rubbing a bit of peppermint oil on the skin in massage will cure diarrhoea, it tends to make me feel sick and Theophrastus would turn in his grave!! Martin Watt http://www.aromamedical.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 This is such a complex subject. Many people, especially Americans are beginning to appreciate the importance of " whole " foods. We had gotten so used to refined food products that we began to take the notion that there was no problem with using only one part of the plant instead of the whole. It actually became preferred. The impact of refined wheat and sugar is obvious in the epidemic of diabetes in society. It is now accepted that foods such as wheat and rice taste better and are better for you when they contain all their parts, not just the refined starch with all the bran removed. Widespread availability of essential oils to the general public is relatively new and the result of widespread adoption of refining and distillation technology. It is unfortunate that we are so willing to believe that the disgarding of the plant matter to get the pure oil is the best thing to get the best of the plant. We unknowingly disgard elements that may protect us from unpleasant side effects because they are contained only in the whole plant. This approach may work when you are after the aromatic part of the plant, but if you want the medicinal impact, it doesn't necessarily make sense. In many respects, it does appear that the easy access to essential oils has done damage to herbal medicine. Essential oils are " natural " in much the same way that white flower and white sugar are " natural " . It is something to ponder. Joanne , " aromamedical2003 " <aromamedical wrote: > > This is at least 5 years old, but for newcomers it may contain some > useful information. > - > Someone questioned my statements that; " therapeutic actions from a > herbal preparation are frequently unjustified when the same plants > oil is used " . > > Martin Watt > http://www.aromamedical.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Great post. Good information. I’d hate to see folks get paranoid about EOs and I’d hate to see them become unavailable. A cigarette lighter can burn your house down, but we don’t take them off the market. I do think, based on what I read here and elsewhere, that some folks use EOs a little recklessly, and sometimes I read things that worry me. Dave Ultimately, the earth is a single community. We are all of one blood and one flesh - we have only to join hearts to begin the return to paradise. This is such a complex subject. Many people, especially Americans are beginning to appreciate the importance of " whole " foods. We had gotten so used to refined food products that we began to take the notion that there was no problem with using only one part of the plant instead of the whole. It actually became preferred. The impact of refined wheat and sugar is obvious in the epidemic of diabetes in society. It is now accepted that foods such as wheat and rice taste better and are better for you when they contain all their parts, not just the refined starch with all the bran removed. Widespread availability of essential oils to the general public is relatively new and the result of widespread adoption of refining and distillation technology. It is unfortunate that we are so willing to believe that the disgarding of the plant matter to get the pure oil is the best thing to get the best of the plant. We unknowingly disgard elements that may protect us from unpleasant side effects because they are contained only in the whole plant. This approach may work when you are after the aromatic part of the plant, but if you want the medicinal impact, it doesn't necessarily make sense. In many respects, it does appear that the easy access to essential oils has done damage to herbal medicine. Essential oils are " natural " in much the same way that white flower and white sugar are " natural " . It is something to ponder. Joanne HYPERLINK " %40 " @-.-com, " aromamedical2003 " <aromamedical@-...> wrote: > > This is at least 5 years old, but for newcomers it may contain some > useful information. > ---- > Someone questioned my statements that; " therapeutic actions from a > herbal preparation are frequently unjustified when the same plants > oil is used " . > > Martin Watt > HYPERLINK " http://www.aromamedical.com " http://www.aromamed-ical.com > -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release 6/23/2006 -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.4/375 - Release 6/25/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Some extremely important information is coming from this thread. Would like to just contribute a piece regarding harvesting herbs. Many Herbalists are extremely aware that plants, even in one species, vary with their medicinal values. Modern Herbalists, in spite of this, still classify all the plants in one species as having all the same various medicinal values, plant to plant. But other cultures classified medicinal plants in a totally different way. The Tocabago Indians in Florida - for instance - did not classify medicinal herbs per species. They classified medicinal plants by condition. In other words, one oak tree was not the equal in medicinal value to another oak tree. The selection of herbs to use was based on other factors. A tree or herb that was being " attacked " by another species was considered more medicinal than one that wasn't. A tree or plant or herb that was gnarled and twisted and had to fight for survival was considered more medicinal than a similar tree or plant that perhaps grew tall and straight in the middle of a meadow. What they looked at was the condition of the plant. THAT gave the medicinal value.So one oak tree would be useless and one oak tree would be valuable. Based soley on condition of the tree. There are - indeed - MANY factors about using the plants of the earth to heal that have been lost and are not understood or even researched by modern science. And what I have repeated here is - of course - my understanding of a science that was lost with the Tocabao's. There was probably a LOT more in diagnosing the madicinal value of a plant. What Maritin has said about EO's is, to my mind, extremely important. Modern Science tends to generalize. It does not like exceptions. For instance, ALL oak trees are..... This has blurred over to include all uses or aspects of the herb. Herbalists have been caught up in the same scientific method of thinking. The EO's, the teas, the poultices, the tincs,etc., have become the same. Neatly categorized into similar segments.And - in that categorized generalization - edges are blurred and errors are made. I, personally, appreciate the time taken by the experienced Essential Oil users, in giving their views . It makes it easier for me to evaluate and accept or reject data that I find in the books that I read. Thank you....ALL. Juat thought I would toss my " two-bits " worth in here ..........Herbally yours Penny On 6/25/06, David Lambert <dlmbrt wrote: > Great post. Good information. I'd hate to see folks get paranoid about EOs > and I'd hate to see them become unavailable. A cigarette lighter can burn > your house down, but we don't take them off the market. I do think, based > on what I read here and elsewhere, that some folks use EOs a little > recklessly, and sometimes I read things that worry me. > > > > Penny Khaled http://tinyurl.com/bfnyd http://tinyurl/rulew http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 , " shupy3 " <jwittenbrook wrote: > > This is such a complex subject. Many people, especially Americans > are beginning to appreciate the importance of " whole " foods. We had > gotten so used to refined food products that we began to take the > notion that there was no problem with using only one part of the > plant instead of the whole. It actually became preferred. The impact > of refined wheat and sugar is obvious in the epidemic of diabetes in > society. It is now accepted that foods such as wheat and rice taste > better and are better for you when they contain all their parts, not > just the refined starch with all the bran removed. > > Widespread availability of essential oils to the general public is > relatively new and the result of widespread adoption of refining and > distillation technology. It is unfortunate that we are so willing to > believe that the disgarding of the plant matter to get the pure oil > is the best thing to get the best of the plant. We unknowingly > disgard elements that may protect us from unpleasant side effects > because they are contained only in the whole plant. This approach > may work when you are after the aromatic part of the plant, but if > you want the medicinal impact, it doesn't necessarily make sense. > > In many respects, it does appear that the easy access to essential > oils has done damage to herbal medicine. Essential oils > are " natural " in much the same way that white flower and white sugar > are " natural " . It is something to ponder. > Joanne Hi Joanne I don't agree with this. The EO market is nothing compared to herbal medicine. You can walk into any health food store and I'm here in Southern California so we have Wild Oats, Mothers and there are a number of smaller ones. Usually vitamins and herbal supplements and treatments take up 1/3 of the entire store! In these stores Essential Oils are located in the cosmetic departments. You will find Tea Tree and some first aid oitments with essential oils over with the herbal supplements, but that's about it. I occasionally go to the Whole Life Expo here and there just to see what's going on its predominantly vitamins, herbal supplements and treatments. The reason Gary Young has managed to suck in so many people with his EO business is because of MLM greed and there is no competition for him. There are far more vitamin and herbal supplements and medical herbal remedies in the MLM area. Just last month someone was telling me about a new MLM tauting zeolites that miraculously removes toxins from your body. If you look at the financial statistics the Vitamin & Herbal Supplement industry far out-profits the essential oil market. Most people when you mention aromatherapy think about getting a spa treatment. The reason all this nonsense popped up is because spas and the beauty industry tell you all this b.s. about EO going into your blood and removing toxins so that you will pay them $100 for the treatment because if they just told you it smelled good you'll NOT want to pay them $100 for it. And outside of a small percentage of people, they know it's b.s. but it's like kind of a quiet denial and it gives an excellent lie to the husband when he complains about you spending $100 at the spa. You just say " well honey it's also curing my cellulite and removing toxins from my blood " and most of them aren't gonna say " hey show me some research on that " and if he did he's probably an engineer/doctor/scientist and they're hard to stay married to anyway. Yeah, that's a prejudice but I've known enough of them to make that claim. Trust me, the herbal industry is not suffering one bit. And there's just as much b.s. claims in that area also. Our society maintains itself on b.s. and the essential oil industry isn't about to change one bit. If I get a cold, I still stand by a ginger, garlic and lemon juice cocktail that I got out of a book on herbalism. Just my two cents. Michele Madison Robles Danaomi Scents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Dear Michele, I think we have to differentiate between the " Herbal Industry " which is , mainly, the selling of refined , bottled , and " standardized " Herbal Extracts and the WHOLE HERB. I think what Joanne may be indicating is that the whole plant, when dried and used in teas and other products or fresh - taken straight from the plant pot or garden - has far more proeprties thant he distilled product i.eEssential Oils being one of them. The plant MAY contain phytochemicals which, when extracted and concentrated, are poisonous BUT, when the whole plant is used, are beneficial to the body. The plant - itself -is a complicated chemical factory that we are totally unable to duplicate. Essential Oils are a concentrated form of the oils of the plant. And, from what I understand, can come from only part of the plant. Perhaps only the flower. Any safegaurds that the plant may have to ensure that side effects do not occur in our bodies from some of the phytochemicals are lost with this concentration and neglect of other phytochemicals.. There are many schools of thought which suggest that we should be using more of the whole plant and that the manufactured chemical that is similar to one specific phytochemical in the plant and therefore called the plant name may have detrimental side effects. Essential Oils, taken internally, may fall in this category. I do not think - in any way - that this is a debate or contest between Essential Oil and Herbal products. They are one and the same actually. Personally, I think the biggest problem in the Herbal Industry is the massive amount of misinformation that is being poured on to the Communication lines of the world by the BIG Chemical Industries who are striving to maintain their drug hold on the population. We - as Herbalists - need to do as much as we can to research ourselves and inform the Public so that the general deteriorization of the Western World's Health, caused by the increase of Nutrtitional Misinformation poured onto the Media by the said Chemcial companies, does not continue. ......................Herbally yours Penny > -- Penny Khaled http://tinyurl.com/bfnyd http://tinyurl/rulew http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Penny - There is so much information & mis-information available on herbal usage and essential oils. But I know herbs & essential oils can clearly be used for different purposes. Essential oils are volatile components of plants, not just herbs and can come from leaves, flowers, roots, bark, rind (i.e. citrus) and no doubt other sources. I use essential oils in aromatherapy and to scent my soaps and skin-care products. I have used powdered herbs to give texture and color to my products. I do not recommend any herb or essential oil to be used internally. I am not in the medical profession and thus would not practice any " cures " . I don't know what you mean when you say " that the manufactured chemical that is similar to one specific phytochemical in the plant and therefore called the plant name may have detrimental side effects. " Can you explain this more simply to me? Seems to me if the chemical make-up of a particular herb and its essential oil are different in structure, they are not the same. Perhaps some of you more learned list folks can clarify this. Some of the commentary regarding this subject supposedly posted to inform, is leaving me more muddled than ever. Namaste, Lynette of Terralyn - Bath, Body, Spirit Reading Terminal Market Philadelphia, PA terralyn27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I did not mean to imply that ther herb business was suffering financially. The issue is that of having the hype resulting from the marketing of essential oils contributing confusion to the understanding of herbal medicine. When someone decides to pursue information and tries to educate themselves on herbs and their properties, running across books or websites that simply take the traditional herbal remedies and tout the essential oil as containing the same benefits makes it all the more difficult to develop a good understanding of herbalism. As a former Californian, I can testify to the fact that what is available on the West Coast compared to other areas, especially less urban areas of the midwest is dramatically different. Essential oils are sold retail, with no warning as to potential health hazard, and often by people who have little or no knowledge. Martin's example of the bergamot case is a perfect case. The person put the oil on her skin thinking it was a perfume. As you mentioned essential oils located in the cosmetic area, it is an example of how and why this happened. In an area where there are few if any health food stores, Young Living has a wide open market for dispensing their bad information. There just isn't any competition or a source of competeing information. Any area of knowledge is harmed by disinformation, especially when that disinformation leads to harm. Joanne , " Chaeya " <chaeya wrote: > I don't agree with this. The EO market is nothing compared to > herbal medicine. You can walk into any health food store and I'm > here in Southern California so we have Wild Oats, Mothers and there > are a number of smaller ones. Usually vitamins and herbal > supplements and treatments take up 1/3 of the entire store! In > these stores Essential Oils are located in the cosmetic > departments. You will find Tea Tree and some first aid oitments > with essential oils over with the herbal supplements, but that's > about it. I occasionally go to the Whole Life Expo here and there > just to see what's going on its predominantly vitamins, herbal > supplements and treatments. The reason Gary Young has managed to > suck in so many people with his EO business is because of MLM greed > and there is no competition for him. > > Trust me, the herbal industry is not suffering one bit. And > there's just as much b.s. claims in that area also. Our society > maintains itself on b.s. and the essential oil industry isn't about > to change one bit. If I get a cold, I still stand by a ginger, > garlic and lemon juice cocktail that I got out of a book on > herbalism. > > Just my two cents. > > Michele Madison Robles > Danaomi Scents > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 , Penny <pennyclear75 wrote: > > We - as Herbalists - need to do as much as we can to research ourselves and > inform the Public so that the general deteriorization of the Western World's There are lots of herbal books on the market. Do you have any recommendations for reliable information?...Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 , Penny <pennyclear75 wrote: > > Dear Michele, > I think we have to differentiate between the " Herbal Industry " which is , > mainly, the selling of refined , bottled , and " standardized " Herbal > Extracts and the WHOLE HERB. > I think what Joanne may be indicating is that the whole plant, when dried > and used in teas and other products or fresh - taken straight from the plant > pot or garden - has far more proeprties thant he distilled product > i.eEssential Oils being one of them. Oh okay. Sorry, I'm in the midst of taking two summer classes and have too much Psychology on the brain at the moment. I admit that I may have misread the post. Thanks for clarifying. Michele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Hi Joanne, Sorry I misunderstood your post. I feel then I have to agree with you here. (Not necessarily trying to debate the subject). I have said this in the past that people are exploring fields like Herbalism and Aromatherapy without getting adequate knowledge on how herbs and oils really work. I have spoken about this in past posts about how essential oils are too accessible and there are no warnings. Some stores keep them behind a glass case. Most sales people in that department have little or no knowledge of essential oils so they just tell you the basic hype the company gives them. I have had more than once people coming in and asking for an oil that does such and such and having the sales people go over and grab an aromatherapy book from the book section - whichever book they happen to land on first. Outside of aromatherapy circles, the general public has access to very poor information so they do not know that essential oils can be dangerous or that they are tauted as a " treatment " for an ailment attributed to a particular herb so there is much assuming that goes on. They figure if the herb is supposed to " treat " a particular ailment, then the oil must really work wonders! I talk to a lot of people that I meet in health food stores and in new age stores where many herbs and essential oils are sold and it's amazing that they are selling these products and have just a hyped or no knowledge of essential oils or herbs. I knew one Reiki practitioner that took Bergamot Oil " neat " and rubbed it on her palms so her clients could smell the " aroma " while she was doing her Reiki. When I told her that this was a no-no and why she was stunned. I told her that if she really wanted her clients to inhale Bergamot to use a an aroma burner which was much safer. I don't know if she ever listened to me or not. I know I haven't finished Martin's course yet - still in the midst of tons of college courses right now, but I've done tons of reading on aromatherapy with Plant Aromatics and the Aromatherapy Practitioner Manual and Chrissie Wildewood's books and I try to spread the word as best I can because I've found a lot of dangerous practicing of aromatherapy and misinformation. I was at one new age shop and there's one company selling " essential oils " but these were clearly fragrance oils, but I was on break from class so I didn't have time to go talk to the owner who was with a customer. But people will probably buy those oils thinking they are 100% essential oils and may seek to do some " treatments " with them. This field definitely needs to be regulated somehow. Michele , " shupy3 " <jwittenbrook wrote: > > I did not mean to imply that ther herb business was suffering > financially. The issue is that of having the hype resulting from the > marketing of essential oils contributing confusion to the > understanding of herbal medicine. When someone decides to pursue > information and tries to educate themselves on herbs and their > properties, running across books or websites that simply take the > traditional herbal remedies and tout the essential oil as containing > the same benefits makes it all the more difficult to develop a good > understanding of herbalism. > > As a former Californian, I can testify to the fact that what is > available on the West Coast compared to other areas, especially less > urban areas of the midwest is dramatically different. > > Essential oils are sold retail, with no warning as to potential > health hazard, and often by people who have little or no knowledge. > Martin's example of the bergamot case is a perfect case. The person > put the oil on her skin thinking it was a perfume. As you mentioned > essential oils located in the cosmetic area, it is an example of how > and why this happened. > > In an area where there are few if any health food stores, Young > Living has a wide open market for dispensing their bad information. > There just isn't any competition or a source of competeing > information. > > Any area of knowledge is harmed by disinformation, especially when > that disinformation leads to harm. > > Joanne > > , " Chaeya " <chaeya@> wrote: > > I don't agree with this. The EO market is nothing compared to > > herbal medicine. You can walk into any health food store and I'm > > here in Southern California so we have Wild Oats, Mothers and > there > > are a number of smaller ones. Usually vitamins and herbal > > supplements and treatments take up 1/3 of the entire store! In > > these stores Essential Oils are located in the cosmetic > > departments. You will find Tea Tree and some first aid oitments > > with essential oils over with the herbal supplements, but that's > > about it. I occasionally go to the Whole Life Expo here and there > > just to see what's going on its predominantly vitamins, herbal > > supplements and treatments. The reason Gary Young has managed to > > suck in so many people with his EO business is because of MLM > greed > > and there is no competition for him. > > > Trust me, the herbal industry is not suffering one bit. And > > there's just as much b.s. claims in that area also. Our society > > maintains itself on b.s. and the essential oil industry isn't > about > > to change one bit. If I get a cold, I still stand by a ginger, > > garlic and lemon juice cocktail that I got out of a book on > > herbalism. > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > Michele Madison Robles > > Danaomi Scents > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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