Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 On Behalf Of Butch Owen Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:17 PM Wintergreen & the Gummint I don't see it as being a bad thing. I expect the same thing applies to Pennyroyal .. which is totally safe UNLESS ingested .. and while I'm checking it out .. I've told my folks to stop selling it. Chris said: > I wonder if they would give such a notice to a shop selling oils as > " curios " . When I worked at the little magick shop many years ago, the > sale of comfrey herb was being restricted, but we could still sell it > because everything in that shop was sold as a " curio " . Hi Marge, Butch, Chris . . . I'm with Butch on this one . . . Consumer safety is and should be of primary concern to anyone selling essential oils, and Marge has been diligent in that regard. Regulations that protect the consumer are a good thing, so long as they are sensible. I've removed both Birch (drat, just got a lovely new batch, tested and verifiably a true distilled product) and Wintergreen from our website and I'm reviewing many other oils that I know will fall into this category. Perhaps the answer will be that we only sell safe dilutions of these oils. This is probably only the beginning of closer scrutiny, could be because of the $ being spent on alternative medicine and the influence of big pharma giants waking up to potential revenue loss, or simply government agencies doing their jobs. Whatever it is, we have to deal with it. Rob and I both spent considerable time on the CPSC website and we couldn't find specific labeling requirements, either. I don't suspect we will easily find child proof caps for eurodropper bottles - there's an entrepreneurial idea for someone to run with. I've long worried that safety information that won't fit on our small labels, but is either banded to the bottle or included in a separate flyer when it goes to the customer, wouldn't suffice if it were to come to a legal challenge, so this is a good nudge for all of us to come up with solutions that meet the legal requirements. And, Chris, I suspect that if the curio shop you mention had been visited by these folks, their definition of Comfrey would have prevailed and the shop would have gotten the same warning as Marge, or perhaps worse. But, you know that, just mentioning it for newbies who might think they can avoid compliance by ignorance of the law, feigned or real. Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Thought I'd post this list to help keep this topic in perspective. After almost 15 years in business, I have yet to have a customer report any mishap, adverse reaction or misuse of an essential oil. http://www.dangerousmedicine.com/ Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 >After almost 15 years in business, I have yet to have a customer >report any mishap, Oh dear Marcia, you should know me well enogh to know I am not going to let a comment like that one go unchallenged!! Aromatherapy suppliers will rarely hear of such reactions because 99 times out of a 100 the user will not have a clue as to what is causing their skin problems. If they suspect it is an oil or other product the most likely scenario is they will stop using it and possibly not go back to the supplier again. There is no reporting system within the whole of aromatherapy to report such reactions. I am sick of the number of times I have heard suppliers say " I have been in business for xxx and never had a customer report a reaction. That may be accurate, but more likely it is just marketing hype. That has no real meaning and is why properly researched safety data is the only way for ethical trading. If you know what the hazards can be, and label accordingly, then the customer at least has guidelines on how to use the product safely. Martin Watt , " Marcia Elston " <samara wrote: > > Thought I'd post this list to help keep this topic in perspective. After > almost 15 years in business, I have yet to have a customer report any > mishap, adverse reaction or misuse of an essential oil. > > http://www.dangerousmedicine.com/ > > Be Well, > Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com > " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from > Nigeria > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Hey Chris, > Crikey! That's not good! I don't see it as being a bad thing. I expect the same thing applies to Pennyroyal .. which is totally safe UNLESS ingested .. and while I'm checking it out .. I've told my folks to stop selling it. And thankee Marge for posting on this. > Hmmm, just " thinking out loud " here ... I wonder if we are to start > listing the LD50 on oils that we sell? What about the LC50? Is this > exclusively rules for Wintergreen EO or all volatile oils? Afore some of the Nawthen members start asking what they be .. mebbe thinking that LC 50 be a Gud Ol Boy named L.C. whut is 50 years old .. reckon I'll tell'em. LD50 means the Lethal Dose .. using animals .. then extrapolating the results to humans because we're not allowed to use humans in the tests ceptin I can think of a few that would make good subjects .. like Osama Yo Mama and that little fat freak whut is screwing over his own folks in North Korea. When 50% of the critters given a one time dose of this or that die .. its called the LD50 .. and its measuring acute toxicity. LC50 means Lethal Concentration .. using animals .. but for our purposes its not ingestion unless they are testing chemicals in water .. its all about inhalation in this case. What concentration of chemicals of a sort in the air does it take to kill 50% of the critters tested .. within a four hour time frame. I am not justifying or condemning LD50 or LC50 testing .. so afore those who feel a need to do so come on line .. just accept that it has been done since the early 1920s and if folks don't like it this list is not the place to protest. ;-) > I wonder if they would give such a notice to a shop selling oils as > " curios " . When I worked at the little magick shop many years ago, the > sale of comfrey herb was being restricted, but we could still sell it > because everything in that shop was sold as a " curio " . Who knows? > Well whatever the case may be, that sux! Please keep us posted Marge. > I'm rooting for ya! Marge is not in danger .. she has handled it well .. she is not opposing their conclusions or going to reclama .. she just stopped selling the Wintergreen (and I expect Sweet Birch too) so that's the end of it. > *Smile* > Chris (list mom) > http://www.alittleolfactory.com Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com >>http://www.naturesgift.com/WintergreenCPSC.htm >>you are NOT going to believe this!!!! > > <http://www.naturesgift.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 On Behalf Of aromamedical2003 Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:40 PM Re: Wintergreen & the Gummint >After almost 15 years in business, I have yet to have a customer >report any mishap, Oh dear Marcia, you should know me well enogh to know I am not going to let a comment like that one go unchallenged!! Aromatherapy suppliers will rarely hear of such reactions because 99 times out of a 100 the user will not have a clue as to what is causing their skin problems. If they suspect it is an oil or other product the most likely scenario is they will stop using it and possibly not go back to the supplier again. There is no reporting system within the whole of aromatherapy to report such reactions. I am sick of the number of times I have heard suppliers say " I have been in business for xxx and never had a customer report a reaction. That may be accurate, but more likely it is just marketing hype. That has no real meaning and is why properly researched safety data is the only way for ethical trading. If you know what the hazards can be, and label accordingly, then the customer at least has guidelines on how to use the product safely. Martin Watt My comment wasn't intended as marketing hype, you know me better than that . .. . Hope you haven't forgotten to recognize irony, Martin. The point was that even without reporting and good collection of data for adverse reactions using essential oils, the record of gross, sometimes deadly reactions to pharmaceuticals and medical procedure is gargantuan in comparison. The article that Butch just posted only reiterates what most of us already know about pseudo-science, phony research and corporate/government corruption that now exists to shore up and addict citizens to Big Pharma. Another topic, but do I believe that most of us can change our diets and lifestyles and avoid most prescription medications and the growing epidemics of diabetes, heart disease, etc.? Yes!! And, I don't fool myself that essential oils are the panacea, but they are one of the tools. Most of us here have a personal relationship with our customers . . .. We communicate with them, provide information and cautious advice, at the cost of sales, as Butch points out. We are more likely to hear back from our customers than some anonymous purchaser at Wal-Mart . . . Always good to have you keeping us on our toes, however, and your points are taken. Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Hi Marcia, For the benefit of newbies Marcia and myself have been around on other groups for years. Time and time again I have tried to warn what would happen if US aromatherapy suppliers did not treat the safety of what they sell as 100% top priority. Since then we have had hundreds of know nothing suppliers popping up creating fancy websites selling every dangerous oil going. Few people dare challenge what they are doing which has the potential to destroy the business of many. I may be wrong, but I strongly suspect the gummit has come out of his box and you lot are going to feel the consequences. Martin , " Marcia Elston " <samara wrote: > > > > On Behalf Of aromamedical2003 > Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:40 PM > > Re: Wintergreen & the Gummint > > > > >After almost 15 years in business, I have yet to have a customer > >report any mishap, > > Oh dear Marcia, you should know me well enogh to know I am not going > to > let a comment like that one go unchallenged!! > > Aromatherapy suppliers will rarely hear of such reactions because 99 > > times out of a 100 the user will not have a clue as to what is > causing > their skin problems. If they suspect it is an oil or other product > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Also for the benefit of those new to this list, Martin's urging and others taking the lead here in the U.S. has led to position papers (i.e., The White Paper http://www.wingedseed.com/RDT/RDTFinalDraft.PDF and Dr. Eva Briggs postings on Quackwatch) and more prominent safety information from reliable suppliers (i.e., http://www.wingedseed.com/Information/BE_SAFE_AND_SMART.htm and http://www.naturesgift.com/warnings.htm ) If you are thinking about starting an essential oil business, please be concerned safe use - for your own protection as well as the rest of us also in business. Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria ________________________________ On Behalf Of aromamedical2003 Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:58 AM Re: Wintergreen & the Gummint Hi Marcia, For the benefit of newbies Marcia and myself have been around on other groups for years. Time and time again I have tried to warn what would happen if US aromatherapy suppliers did not treat the safety of what they sell as 100% top priority. Since then we have had hundreds of know nothing suppliers popping up creating fancy websites selling every dangerous oil going. Few people dare challenge what they are doing which has the potential to destroy the business of many. I may be wrong, but I strongly suspect the gummit has come out of his box and you lot are going to feel the consequences. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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