Natarural Antioxidants for Citrus Soaps

[Guest guest]

Thank you Butch. I'll relay this to Greg and Marty. I don't feel so bad

not knowing how to give them an answer.

Jan

 

In a message dated 6/29/2006 2:37:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,

butchbsi writes:

 

 

 

Hey Janis,

 

> Dear aroma folks, I have a two good friends in Hawaii making soap using all

> natural products. They need to find a natural ingedient for their citrus

> soaps.

 

Why? Maybe I know less about soaps than I thought I did.

 

> They use something called benzoin powder (also called styrax) in other

soaps

> but it does not smell good in the citurs soaps.

 

No comment there.

 

> Please direct me to natural preservatives.

 

There is no such thing. That's a short answer .. the long answer is

there is no such practical thing. However, the subject above is about

Antioxidants .. so maybe that is what you are asking about .. instead of

Preservatives.

 

> They think that since I am a chemist I can help them.

 

When a chemist finds such a thing they will be wealthy. When ANY company

any where comes out with a SAFE and EFFECTIVE Natural Preservative .. I

wanna get in on the ground floor of their stock sales.

 

There are many claiming to use " natural " preservatives but to date there

have been none (I am aware of) found that are effective when used at an

acceptable level. By that I mean .. for example .. Origanum or Rosemary

Cineole EO are very effective preservatives but the percentage required

to perform that task would be too high for practical use .. and maybe

even safe use.

 

> Well, I can't unless I get some help from the soapers you

> know about.

 

They too will not be able to help. But some might try. ;-)

 

I am opinionated .. but my mind can be changed when faced with credible

information to the contrary .. so there is the challenge. ;-)

 

Oh yea .. unproved marketing hype does not count .. nor does marketing

information about so-called natural preservatives that are still being

tested. If and when such testing shows positive results .. then there

might be a natural, safe and efficient preservative on the market.

 

> Janis Young

 

Y'all have a good one .. and keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch _http://www.AV-http:/_ (http://www.av-at.com/)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I suspect you might hear a LOT about this, from a lot of soapers on

this list...this is hot topic from time to time in the soaping world.

 

Butch is absolutely correct! There is no such thing as a natural

preservative! There is also, as far as I know no need to use a

preservative in soap! Not sure what method they use, or if that even

makes a difference, but basically, no preservative is necessary in

soap. An antioxidant might be used to keep the oils used from

becoming rancid, but that's not a preservative.

 

Also, be wary of anybody who claims to make soap from all natural

products...that is another can of worms. But other, more well spoken

soap makers can address that issue.

 

Pam in Gettysburg

 

, Oaklandplants wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Thank you Butch. I'll relay this to Greg and Marty. I don't

feel so bad

> not knowing how to give them an answer.

> Jan

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Janis,

 

What they're looking for is rosemary oleoresin. It leaves no odor in the

finished product. It should be included with the oils while they're melting.

It takes very little - use at a rate of .01%. It is sticky and a little tricky

to work with, but not too bad. You'll notice that the oils will get darker

immediately after adding ROE, but they will lighten up. You'll probably want to

account for this in your coloring process.

 

There was an article in the Handcrafted SoapMaker - The Journal of the

Handcrafted Soap Makers Guild, Winter 2005-2006 edition, written by Kevin M.

Dunn of Hampden-Sydney College in Australia. The study was performed at the

college. Here's a quick summary of the findings.

 

The article is about preventing DOS. They studied GSE, Vitamin C, Vitamin E,

Sodium Citrate, BHT, ROE, and EDTA. EDTA & ROE were shown to perform equally as

well, but EDTA is a chemical. The only thing that out performed ROE (or EDTA)

in the study was a combination of BHT and Sodium Citrate. That is the

preservative recommended by the paper to use, but they acknowledge that for the

natural " fiends " ROE works very well at preventing rancidity and extending the

shelf life of a product. The combination of BHT and Sodium Citrate will prevent

rancidity for a longer period of time.

 

BTW, the study shows that vitamin e and GSE aren't effective at preventing

rancidity. I know that most instructions in books or websites say to use them.

I was surprised by this finding as I used T-50 as an anti-oxidant also. I've

switched to ROE now. Here's a link that might also be helpful. Tam

 

http://www.ecomcanada.com/rosemary.html

 

Oaklandplants wrote:

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hey Janis,

 

> Dear aroma folks, I have a two good friends in Hawaii making soap using all

> natural products. They need to find a natural ingedient for their citrus

> soaps.

 

Why? Maybe I know less about soaps than I thought I did.

 

> They use something called benzoin powder (also called styrax) in other soaps

> but it does not smell good in the citurs soaps.

 

No comment there.

 

> Please direct me to natural preservatives.

 

There is no such thing. That's a short answer .. the long answer is

there is no such practical thing. However, the subject above is about

Antioxidants .. so maybe that is what you are asking about .. instead of

Preservatives.

 

> They think that since I am a chemist I can help them.

 

When a chemist finds such a thing they will be wealthy. When ANY company

any where comes out with a SAFE and EFFECTIVE Natural Preservative .. I

wanna get in on the ground floor of their stock sales.

 

There are many claiming to use " natural " preservatives but to date there

have been none (I am aware of) found that are effective when used at an

acceptable level. By that I mean .. for example .. Origanum or Rosemary

Cineole EO are very effective preservatives but the percentage required

to perform that task would be too high for practical use .. and maybe

even safe use.

 

> Well, I can't unless I get some help from the soapers you

> know about.

 

They too will not be able to help. But some might try. ;-)

 

I am opinionated .. but my mind can be changed when faced with credible

information to the contrary .. so there is the challenge. ;-)

 

Oh yea .. unproved marketing hype does not count .. nor does marketing

information about so-called natural preservatives that are still being

tested. If and when such testing shows positive results .. then there

might be a natural, safe and efficient preservative on the market.

 

> Janis Young

 

Y'all have a good one .. and keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch http://www.AV-aT.com

[Guest guest]

, " pkginter " <pkginter wrote:

>

> Also, be wary of anybody who claims to make soap from all natural

> products...that is another can of worms. But other, more well spoken

> soap makers can address that issue.

>

Would someone please explain this? I thought that using oils(like

olive, palm, coconut, shea butter, etc), herbs, and eo's was considered

using all natural products. Thanks...Donna

[Guest guest]

The reality is that " natural " and " all natural " can be used in

marketing and really mean nothing. Most soapmakers use lye, which is

prepared mainly by the electrolysis of sodium chloride. Most of the

oils and such are refined, bleached, deodorized and/or fractionated.

Modern EO's are often the result of cold pressing or some sort of

steam distillation. How do you define natural? All of the ingredients

have been altered or refined using some sort of modern technology.

 

Natural is a matter of opinion. Soap made with home made lye from wood

ash, and rendered animal fat is surely " all natural " , but I doubt that

many people would want to buy it.

Joanne

 

, " dzmg2000 " <dzmg wrote:

>

> , " pkginter " <pkginter@> wrote:

> >

> > Also, be wary of anybody who claims to make soap from all natural

> > products...that is another can of worms. But other, more well

spoken

> > soap makers can address that issue.

> >

> Would someone please explain this? I thought that using oils(like

> olive, palm, coconut, shea butter, etc), herbs, and eo's was

considered

> using all natural products. Thanks...Donna

>

[Guest guest]

I sell lots of my hunter's soap - made with 100% deer tallow. I also make other

soaps with deer tallow. My soaps made with 100% lard are also good sellers.

You'd be surprised how often I'm asked if I " have a plain ol' lard soap like

grandma used to make "

Paula .......... in Michigan

I used to have super powers but my therapist took them away

Natural is a matter of opinion. Soap made with home made lye from wood

ash, and rendered animal fat is surely " all natural " , but I doubt that

many people would want to buy it.

Joanne