Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Can anyone point me in the direction of the characterization of grooso lavender hydrolates and oils. I am distilling my crop this year and wonder if having the stalks in with the blossoms changes the oil. I distilled just the stalks last year and got no oil but maybe there is some change by distilling the blossoms with the stalks. I saw that in Provence they distill the lavender with the stalks. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Dear Marge, You are correct in understanding my question. I see that you are in accord with my finding that the stalks have no oil in them. Yoiu said that the distillate in the absence of the stalks is better. This then, implies that the stalks give something to the oil that it does not get when the blossoms are distilled without the stalks. My question is what is it? Thank you for responding to my question. I think some of the people that do analysis of the compounds may have the answer. Regards, Jan Young In a message dated 7/21/2006 6:12:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, marge writes: At 12:18 AM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >Can anyone point me in the direction of the characterization of grooso >lavender hydrolates and oils. I am distilling my crop this year and >wonder if >having the stalks in with the blossoms changes the oil. I distilled just >the >stalks last year and got no oil but maybe there is some change by distilling >the blossoms with the stalks. I saw that in Provence they distill the >lavender >with the stalks. >Jan not sure what you are asking here, Jan. It's my understanding that the less stalk included in the biomass the better the quality of the essential oil. In distilling the stalks only you won't GET any eo... it's in the flower. as for the physical qualities... Lavandin var Grosso is more used as a germkiller, it's mildly stimulating; mixed with spike lavender it's excellent for respiratory conditions..e we have a description of several different varieties of lavandin and lavender online at _http://www.naturesghttp://www.naturhttp://www.natuhttp:_ (http://www.naturesgift.com/essential/descriptionh-l.htm) Over 10 years online supplying Aromatherapy and Healthcare Professionals Essential Oils, Hydrosols, Accessories, Hard to find Books and Videos <_http://www.naturesghttp://_ (http://www.naturesgift.com/) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 At 12:18 AM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >Can anyone point me in the direction of the characterization of grooso >lavender hydrolates and oils. I am distilling my crop this year and >wonder if >having the stalks in with the blossoms changes the oil. I distilled just >the >stalks last year and got no oil but maybe there is some change by distilling >the blossoms with the stalks. I saw that in Provence they distill the >lavender >with the stalks. >Jan not sure what you are asking here, Jan. It's my understanding that the less stalk included in the biomass the better the quality of the essential oil. In distilling the stalks only you won't GET any eo... it's in the flower. as for the physical qualities... Lavandin var Grosso is more used as a germkiller, it's mildly stimulating; mixed with spike lavender it's excellent for respiratory conditions... we have a description of several different varieties of lavandin and lavender online at http://www.naturesgift.com/essential/descriptionh-l.htm Over 10 years online supplying Aromatherapy and Healthcare Professionals Essential Oils, Hydrosols, Accessories, Hard to find Books and Videos <http://www.naturesgift.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Dear Marge, Thank you! I will have some trouble deciding the time of day to harvest but thank you. The presence of some stems to keep the blooms separated is a good idea. I did not think of that. I imagine, I could contact some local lavender folks and see what is the time of day they suggest for harvest. Is the region wide? I am not sure what you mean by " wilt " in " (wilt as you would a larger distillation) " Maybe that is a typo. Can you suggest any references? Jan In a message dated 7/21/2006 1:02:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, samara writes: Hi Jan, Yes the composition of your oil will be changed. Most of the oil in any lavender species is in the calyx, which need to be fully formed, but not necessarily opened completely into flower for optimum distillation. Knowing when to harvest for distillation is important. Since the budding/blooming process happens gradually, you will find some flowers in bloom to insure that all calyx are fully formed when it is time to distill. I've also recently learned that there will be an opportune time to harvest your plant material during the diurnal cycle when you have the most oil. This is specific to your region and the way you determine this is to take small samples hourly (wilt as you would a larger distillation)sample distill/measure oil production, and repeat hourly over a 24 hour period to determine when oil production is greatest. The best lavender oil I've seen is distilled from mostly flowers and enough stems to separate plant matter in the still so that the steam can freely circulate all thorough the plant material. If you use only flowers, you risk having plant material clump up and then the steam will find a small narrow route through the plant material, never touching much of the compacted plant material. Then, you will only get distilled water, not even a good hydrosol. See if your local County Extension Agent has distillation information available. If there is commercial distillation in your area, this is a great resource, even for the small distiller. Be Well, Marcia Elston _http://www.wingedsehttp:/_ (http://www.wingedseed.com/) <_http://www.wingedsehttp://_ (http://www.wingedseed.com/) > " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria ________________________________ _@oils_herbs_eoil_ ( ) [_@oils_herbs_eoil_ ( ) ] On Behalf Of _Oaklandplants@Oakland_ (Oaklandplants) Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:59 PM _@oils_herbs_eoil_ ( ) [oils_herbs_ [oils_herbs_<W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Hi Jan, Yes the composition of your oil will be changed. Most of the oil in any lavender species is in the calyx, which need to be fully formed, but not necessarily opened completely into flower for optimum distillation. Knowing when to harvest for distillation is important. Since the budding/blooming process happens gradually, you will find some flowers in bloom to insure that all calyx are fully formed when it is time to distill. I've also recently learned that there will be an opportune time to harvest your plant material during the diurnal cycle when you have the most oil. This is specific to your region and the way you determine this is to take small samples hourly (wilt as you would a larger distillation), then distill/measure oil production, and repeat hourly over a 24 hour period to determine when oil production is greatest. The best lavender oil I've seen is distilled from mostly flowers and enough stems to separate plant matter in the still so that the steam can freely circulate all thorough the plant material. If you use only flowers, you risk having plant material clump up and then the steam will find a small narrow route through the plant material, never touching much of the compacted plant material. Then, you will only get distilled water, not even a good hydrosol. See if your local County Extension Agent has distillation information available. If there is commercial distillation in your area, this is a great resource, even for the small distiller. Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com <http://www.wingedseed.com/> " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria ________________________________ On Behalf Of Oaklandplants Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:59 PM lavender distillates Can anyone point me in the direction of the characterization of grooso lavender hydrolates and oils. I am distilling my crop this year and wonder if having the stalks in with the blossoms changes the oil. I distilled just the stalks last year and got no oil but maybe there is some change by distilling the blossoms with the stalks. I saw that in Provence they distill the lavender with the stalks. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 THANK YOU Marge. Sounds like the right approach exo involving ghe knowledge of the GC/mass spec experts. I hope to get soe input from your buddies. Regards, Jan In a message dated 7/21/2006 7:32:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, marge writes: At 06:49 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >Dear Marge, You are correct in understanding my question. I see that you >are in accord with my finding that the stalks have no oil in them. Yoiu >said >that the distillate in the absence of the stalks is better. This then, >implies that the stalks give something to the oil that it does not get >when the >blossoms are distilled without the stalks. My question is what is >it? Thank >you for responding to my question. I think some of the people that do >analysis of the compounds may have the answer. Regards, Jan Young Jan, I don't have the answer to that. I have been taught, for example, that blossoms are often harvested with 6 " of stock... but if they can have only 3 " the oil is of superior quality. but the only way to tell specifically what phytochemicals come thru with blossoms only, as opposed to 'flowering tops " ... one would have to...hmmm... harvest a field, pull out half the harvest, trim the stock away. distill a batch of oil. distill the REST of the harvest... then have both batches GC/MS tested to see the difference. otherwise you wouldn't know if the differences came from the different growing conditions from one batch to another. Let me write and ask both my favorite french 'mentor' and the chemist who tests my oils for me. He's published enough and on top of the research that's done to perhaps know if this kind of side by side comparison has been done. I figure if, between them, Michel and Art Tucker don't know...then no one knows! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Dear Marcia, Sorry to get your name wrong. So it isn't a typo. You do mean wilt. The wilting is confusing because I thought that putting steam through the blossoms would be about the same as water with the blossoms. But, according to you it makes a difference. I do it whatever way the blossoms are collected. Sometimes--most times I think, they are wilted. Thank y ou for keeping this thread going. Jan In a message dated 7/21/2006 5:36:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, samara writes: Hi Again, Jan, Easy to confuse Marcia with Marge, but it was me in that response. You always want to wilt your plant material for about 24 hours to remove excess water that is in the plant itself before you distill or process it either into an oil infusion or tincture. Plants, like us, have a lot of water content. All you do is harvest plant material and lay out loosely so it can evaporate water off, not necessarily in the sun, warm and shady will do fine. You won't lose any oil in the first 24 hours of wilting. Ideally, you want to evaporate water from your plant material, but not allow it to sit unprocessed to the point it might mold or begin to rot. All of this process takes close observation. When making a fresh plant oil infusion, you don't have to deal with excess water in the infused oil; getting the water out of a plant-infused oil is the trickiest part of the process. Wilting before eo distillation will also get you more hydrosol/oil ratio and, again, not result in excess water in your finished product. Good idea to contact other lavender growers in your area that might distill . . . If they've done their homework, they will know ideal time of day to harvest for optimum percentage of oil to be in the plant at the time of harvest. It would save some time for you, for sure. Be Well, Marcia Elston _http://www.wingedsehttp:/_ (http://www.wingedseed.com/) " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Hi Again, Jan, Easy to confuse Marcia with Marge, but it was me in that response. You always want to wilt your plant material for about 24 hours to remove excess water that is in the plant itself before you distill or process it either into an oil infusion or tincture. Plants, like us, have a lot of water content. All you do is harvest plant material and lay out loosely so it can evaporate water off, not necessarily in the sun, warm and shady will do fine. You won't lose any oil in the first 24 hours of wilting. Ideally, you want to evaporate water from your plant material, but not allow it to sit unprocessed to the point it might mold or begin to rot. All of this process takes close observation. When making a fresh plant oil infusion, you don't have to deal with excess water in the infused oil; getting the water out of a plant-infused oil is the trickiest part of the process. Wilting before eo distillation will also get you more hydrosol/oil ratio and, again, not result in excess water in your finished product. Good idea to contact other lavender growers in your area that might distill . . . If they've done their homework, they will know ideal time of day to harvest for optimum percentage of oil to be in the plant at the time of harvest. It would save some time for you, for sure. Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria ________________________________ On Behalf Of Oaklandplants Friday, July 21, 2006 4:49 PM Re: lavender distillates Dear Marge, Thank you! I will have some trouble deciding the time of day to harvest but thank you. The presence of some stems to keep the blooms separated is a good idea. I did not think of that. I imagine, I could contact some local lavender folks and see what is the time of day they suggest for harvest. Is the region wide? I am not sure what you mean by " wilt " in " (wilt as you would a larger distillation) " Maybe that is a typo. Can you suggest any references? Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 At 06:49 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >Dear Marge, You are correct in understanding my question. I see that you >are in accord with my finding that the stalks have no oil in them. Yoiu >said >that the distillate in the absence of the stalks is better. This then, >implies that the stalks give something to the oil that it does not get >when the >blossoms are distilled without the stalks. My question is what is >it? Thank >you for responding to my question. I think some of the people that do >analysis of the compounds may have the answer. Regards, Jan Young Jan, I don't have the answer to that. I have been taught, for example, that blossoms are often harvested with 6 " of stock... but if they can have only 3 " the oil is of superior quality. but the only way to tell specifically what phytochemicals come thru with blossoms only, as opposed to 'flowering tops " ... one would have to...hmmm... harvest a field, pull out half the harvest, trim the stock away. distill a batch of oil. distill the REST of the harvest... then have both batches GC/MS tested to see the difference. otherwise you wouldn't know if the differences came from the different growing conditions from one batch to another. Let me write and ask both my favorite french 'mentor' and the chemist who tests my oils for me. He's published enough and on top of the research that's done to perhaps know if this kind of side by side comparison has been done. I figure if, between them, Michel and Art Tucker don't know...then no one knows! > >In a message dated 7/21/2006 6:12:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, >marge writes: Over 10 years online supplying Aromatherapy and Healthcare Professionals Essential Oils, Hydrosols, Accessories, Hard to find Books and Videos <http://www.naturesgift.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 I think we can help you. It is not a stupid question. I am in Oakland, CA and I have a few addresses. What kind of lavender do you have? If you have as much as 2 pounds of grosso you can get about 15 ml (less than an ounce) . I distilled some for a neighbor of the Spanish lavender (has a bracket at the top) It is very camphory. Also Jeannie Rose published a way to do it yourself on your kitchen range but I have misplaced the reference. If you want to try it, I might be able to resurrect the reference. Jan Young In a message dated 7/22/2006 6:07:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, pam writes: This may be a really stupid question - but how does one goe about finding lavendar distillers in one's area?? I've got a few beautiful lavendar plants that I would like to 'try' getting some eo out just for myself...but have no idea where/how to start. Will google today unless someone can provide a good website :-) blessings! Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 This may be a really stupid question - but how does one goe about finding lavendar distillers in one's area?? I've got a few beautiful lavendar plants that I would like to 'try' getting some eo out just for myself...but have no idea where/how to start. Will google today unless someone can provide a good website :-) blessings! Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Sounds fun! Please send me a picture or a sketch if you would.My e-mail is _janyoung2_ (janyoung2) . I'll try to sketch what you just described if I can. Jan In a message dated 7/22/2006 4:18:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, dlmbrt writes: Jeannie Rose published a way to do it yourself on your kitchen range but I have misplaced the reference. If you want to try it, I might be able to resurrect the reference. [Dave:] It’s possible to make a simple still on the stove that will work with herbs. What you need is a fairly large, stainless steel pot with a metal lid that’s shaped a particular way. It must be dome-shaped, and the knob must be shaped in such a way that when the lid is inverted, any liquid will run down to the knob and drip from the center. In other words, a flared knob or one that is shaped like a tee when viewed from the side, is not going to work. A spherical knob, or one that has only convex curves, should work fine. In the bottom of the pan you will need a Pyrex or stainless steel bowl or vessel of some kind that has fairly straight sides, and is about 3†high and roughly the same diameter, or a little more. Surround this with distilled or purified water, but not enough to float it. Place your herbs in the water in a ring around it. Cover the pot with the lid inverted so that it also forms a bowl. When the water begins steaming, take a bag of ice and set it in the bowl formed by the inverted lid. As the water steams through the herbs, it will condense on the cold lid, and run down to drip off the knob into the glass bowl in the center of the pot. You can add water and repeat the process. After everything has cooled down and you’re finished, what you’ll find in the bowl will be your hydrosol, with a small(!) amount of essential oil floating in it. The oil can be lifted off with an eyedropper and placed in a vial. You’re not going to get the same results as a big still, but this does work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Jeannie Rose published a way to do it yourself on your kitchen range but I have misplaced the reference. If you want to try it, I might be able to resurrect the reference. [Dave:] It’s possible to make a simple still on the stove that will work with herbs. What you need is a fairly large, stainless steel pot with a metal lid that’s shaped a particular way. It must be dome-shaped, and the knob must be shaped in such a way that when the lid is inverted, any liquid will run down to the knob and drip from the center. In other words, a flared knob or one that is shaped like a tee when viewed from the side, is not going to work. A spherical knob, or one that has only convex curves, should work fine. In the bottom of the pan you will need a Pyrex or stainless steel bowl or vessel of some kind that has fairly straight sides, and is about 3” high and roughly the same diameter, or a little more. Surround this with distilled or purified water, but not enough to float it. Place your herbs in the water in a ring around it. Cover the pot with the lid inverted so that it also forms a bowl. When the water begins steaming, take a bag of ice and set it in the bowl formed by the inverted lid. As the water steams through the herbs, it will condense on the cold lid, and run down to drip off the knob into the glass bowl in the center of the pot. You can add water and repeat the process. After everything has cooled down and you’re finished, what you’ll find in the bowl will be your hydrosol, with a small(!) amount of essential oil floating in it. The oil can be lifted off with an eyedropper and placed in a vial. You’re not going to get the same results as a big still, but this does work. -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release 7/21/2006 -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release 7/21/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 THanks Jan - yes, if you can find it I'd love the info! Pam Re: lavender distillates Posted by: " Oaklandplants " Oaklandplants janyoung66 Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:09 am (PST) I think we can help you. It is not a stupid question. I am in Oakland, CA and I have a few addresses. What kind of lavender do you have? If you have as much as 2 pounds of grosso you can get about 15 ml (less than an ounce) . I distilled some for a neighbor of the Spanish lavender (has a bracket at the top) It is very camphory. Also Jeannie Rose published a way to do it yourself on your kitchen range but I have misplaced the reference. If you want to try it, I might be able to resurrect the reference. Jan Young In a message dated 7/22/2006 6:07:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, pam writes: This may be a really stupid question - but how does one goe about finding lavendar distillers in one's area?? I've got a few beautiful lavendar plants that I would like to 'try' getting some eo out just for myself...but have no idea where/how to start. Will google today unless someone can provide a good website :-) blessings! Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 thanks Dave - I'll have to think on this one :-) ... any chance there is a 'picture' of this anywhere?? Pam Posted by: " David Lambert " dlmbrt darthoblio Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:17 pm (PST) Jeannie Rose published a way to do it yourself on your kitchen range but I have misplaced the reference. If you want to try it, I might be able to resurrect the reference. [Dave:] It's possible to make a simple still on the stove that will work with herbs. What you need is a fairly large, stainless steel pot with a metal lid that's shaped a particular way. It must be dome-shaped, and the knob must be shaped in such a way that when the lid is inverted, any liquid will run down to the knob and drip from the center. In other words, a flared knob or one that is shaped like a tee when viewed from the side, is not going to work. A spherical knob, or one that has only convex curves, should work fine. In the bottom of the pan you will need a Pyrex or stainless steel bowl or vessel of some kind that has fairly straight sides, and is about 3 " high and roughly the same diameter, or a little more. Surround this with distilled or purified water, but not enough to float it. Place your herbs in the water in a ring around it. Cover the pot with the lid inverted so that it also forms a bowl. When the water begins steaming, take a bag of ice and set it in the bowl formed by the inverted lid. As the water steams through the herbs, it will condense on the cold lid, and run down to drip off the knob into the glass bowl in the center of the pot. You can add water and repeat the process. After everything has cooled down and you're finished, what you'll find in the bowl will be your hydrosol, with a small(!) amount of essential oil floating in it. The oil can be lifted off with an eyedropper and placed in a vial. You're not going to get the same results as a big still, but this does work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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