OT: Big Time OT - Social Security

September 21, 2006

Hey Butch and other interested folk,

I wanted to send in my 2 cents worth about the Social Security issue.

This was a big issue a few years ago. Bush wanted to allow folks to

invest some of their own money, thereby reducing the burden on the

social security fund. He didn't get very far with that, I'm happy to

say. Most folks who would rely on social security wouldn't have the

wherewithall to invest and would find themselves destitute in their

old age.

There was another solution bandied about, which the politicians

didn't give much consideration to. Currently, there is a threshhold

at which income is not taxed for social security purposes. I'm not

sure what that threshhold is, but let's say for discussion that it's

$90,000. For those folks making less than that, they pay social

security taxes on all of it. For those folks making more than that,

the amount over is not taxed. If everyone paid social security taxes

on all of their income, the fund would be solvent in a few years, and

remain that way, if not accumulating an excess. The big argument

against this is that social security benefits are capped, and the

wealthy would be paying in more than they get out. So how about a

compromise? Maybe say move the threshhold up to $200,000. But

again, money talks in this country, and the politicians aren't going

to risk alienating their contributors.

I'm wondering whether this issue will be on the table in 2008.

Mary

On Sep 21, 2006, at 4:40 PM, Butch Owen wrote:

> Hi y'all,

>

> This subject is totally out of the area this list is concerned with ..

> but probably not totally out of the area the members are concerned

> with

> and I am wondering (also Big Time) just how concerned the average

> American citizen is about this problem. Living overseas as I do now, I

> rarely get to discuss this with Americans. And as I am planning to

> return to the USA early next year .. and planning to draw my SS

> shortly

> after that .. and planning to depend on that SS to ensure I will be

> able

> to continue mortgage payments on a home.

>

> I read here and there that the major domestic concerns of voters in

> the

> upcoming elections are border security, illegal immigrants, the

> cost of

> gasoline, security of the nation, the job market, quality of education

> and such .. all important issues for sure .. but I am a bit

> surprised to

> not see the above subject being a major concern.

>

> Each year (I and many of you) get our annual SS Statement .. my latest

> is dated April 2006. One paragraph in that statement reads as follows:

>

> " About Social Security's Future .. Social Security is a compact

> between

> generations. For more than 60 years, America has kept the promise of

> security for its workers and their families. But now, the Social

> Security system is facing serious future financial problems, and

> action

> is needed soon to make sure that the system is sound when today's

> younger workers are ready for retirement. (MY NOTE: Those younger

> workers they mention are not all that young .. read on.)

>

> Today there are almost 36 million Americans age 65 or older. Their

> Social Security retirement benefits are funded by today's workers and

> their employers who jointly pay Social Security taxes - just as the

> money they paid into Social Security was used to pay benefits to those

> who retired before them. (MY NOTE: I and many of you on this list have

> paid a long time .. I began in 1960).

>

> Unless action is taken soon to strengthen Social Security, in just 11

> years we will begin paying more in benefits that we collect in taxes.

> Without changes, by 2041 the Social Security Trust Fund will be

> exhausted. By then, the number of Americans 65 or older is expected to

> have doubled. (MY NOTE: This might be an underestimation .. if the

> Gummit decides to include illegals in the system).

>

> There won't be enough younger people working to pay all of the

> benefits

> owed to those who are retiring. At that point, there will be enough

> money to pay only about 74 cents for each dollar of scheduled

> benefits.

> We will need to resolve these issues soon to make sure Social Security

> continues to provide a foundation of protection for future generations

> as it has done in the past.

>

> Visit Social Security on the Net .. http://www.socialsecurity.gov

>

> I really wonder why this is not a major area of concern for Americans?

> Are we sitting around waiting for the system to fix itself? As far

> as I

> know, this problem is not one we can pin on any particular political

> party .. it seems to be a systemic problem that the parties don't want

> to touch. It seems that each time an administration (Republican or

> Democrat) tries to put this problem on the table .. the politicians

> run

> like scalded dogs - like they don't want to commit because its a hot

> potato with voters .. so it just lingers on as a potential problem

> that

> in time can become a major catastrophe.

>

> I hope to still be kicking 11 years from now .. and if the projection

> above is accurate .. and the problem is not addressed prior to that

> time

> its likely that the Gummit will make some rapid changes without a

> lot of

> thought then. Many of you will be around 35 years from now .. in 2041,

> and if you are then eligible to retire (65 and 10 months at present

> schedule) you will probably have paid into the system at least 40 or

> more years.

>

> Am I looking at a problem that is not really there .. or at a problem

> that is just not getting a lot of attention from American voters?

>

> Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch

>

September 21, 2006

Hi Butch,

Yes this is a concern to many of us, and yes you are right anytime it is

mentioned the government runs away from the problem.

Now this is just my opinion on the matter:

For years the government has treated the Social Security Pension Fund like

their own little bank and have raided it at will to fund whatever little

project they needed extra money for. If the fund had been left alone there

would have been plenty of money available for the many generations to come.

I believe the main reason they don't want to deal with it is that they are

afraid that their bad deeds will come out in the wash and then we will see

just how badly they have stolen from us. This has to be one of the worst

kept secrets in Washington, and eventually there will have to be an

accounting. But until the general population demands an accounting, they

will just keep sweeping the issue under the rug and hoping it doesn't blow

up on their watch.

I have a cousin that is a congressional aide and he explained to us some of

the antics that go on up in Washington. If the people in this country knew

half of what was really going on up there. Well lets just say that the

powers that be would be booking the next jet out to a different country,

because their hides wouldn't be worth a plugged nickel. But as long as we

have less than half the population turning out to vote and not caring what

goes on as long as their little lives go merrily on without much care, there

will not be any meaningful change.

So, those of us that care about the quality of our lives as we age, are

quietly investing every penny we can lay our hands on to ensure we will be

able to live with some semblance of quality when we retire. I don't expect

the government will or will be able to take care of us when we retire in 20

years, so we are fully planning on taking care of ourselves at this point.

I personally do not have any faith in our government anymore, they have lied

to many times and embroiled us in affairs that have stirred up a hornet's

nest. I love my country and did my service to it for 4 years in the Navy,

but I don't trust the people that are currently running it.

So that's my 0.02 worth.

Laurie Hoppe

On Behalf Of Butch Owen

Thursday, September 21, 2006 4:41 PM

OT: Big Time OT - Social Security

__,_

I really wonder why this is not a major area of concern for Americans?

Are we sitting around waiting for the system to fix itself? As far as I

know, this problem is not one we can pin on any particular political

party .. it seems to be a systemic problem that the parties don't want

to touch. It seems that each time an administration (Republican or

Democrat) tries to put this problem on the table .. the politicians run

like scalded dogs - like they don't want to commit because its a hot

potato with voters .. so it just lingers on as a potential problem that

in time can become a major catastrophe.

I hope to still be kicking 11 years from now .. and if the projection

above is accurate .. and the problem is not addressed prior to that time

its likely that the Gummit will make some rapid changes without a lot of

thought then. Many of you will be around 35 years from now .. in 2041,

and if you are then eligible to retire (65 and 10 months at present

schedule) you will probably have paid into the system at least 40 or

more years.

Am I looking at a problem that is not really there .. or at a problem

that is just not getting a lot of attention from American voters?

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch

._,___

September 21, 2006

> " About Social Security's Future .. Social Security is a compact

between

> generations. For more than 60 years, America has kept the promise

of

> security for its workers and their families. But now, the Social

> Security system is facing serious future financial problems, and

action

(MY NOTE: I and many of you on this list have

> paid a long time .. I began in 1960).

>

> Unless action is taken soon to strengthen Social Security, in just

11

> years we will begin paying more in benefits that we collect in

taxes.

This sooooo gripes my a**! No matter what you vote....Clinton left

office with billions of excess to pay for SS thru 2075. Where has it

gone? Ask Dubya! I'm soooo pissed about this I can't even talk

about it! Not only has this admin used it and/or abused it, they

have slipped laws into place that we're not elbible at 62 and 65 as

we were. Slipped those laws in and we're screwed! What we did have

in our notices has drastically reduced to one fourth what is was. We

now have to work until we're 70 and 77 to draw 75% of what we were

elgible for at 65!!!!

Folks are not reading their notices or they are conservatives that

were born with a silver spoon and don't give a dam*! Their laws have

changed to give them bigger and bigger tax breaks and not a cent has

went to those of us that pay the taxes in the lower income

brackets!!! If the American people don't wake up soon we will become

a third world country and there will be nothing but the very rich,

the very poor and the illegals!

> Without changes, by 2041 the Social Security Trust Fund will be

> exhausted. By then, the number of Americans 65 or older is

expected to

> have doubled. (MY NOTE: This might be an underestimation .. if the

> Gummit decides to include illegals in the system).

>

> There won't be enough younger people working to pay all of the

benefits

> owed to those who are retiring. At that point, there will be enough

> money to pay only about 74 cents for each dollar of scheduled

benefits.

> We will need to resolve these issues soon to make sure Social

Security

> continues to provide a foundation of protection for future

generations

> as it has done in the past.

>

> Visit Social Security on the Net .. http://www.socialsecurity.gov

>

> I really wonder why this is not a major area of concern for

Americans?

> Are we sitting around waiting for the system to fix itself? As far

as I

> know, this problem is not one we can pin on any particular political

> party .. it seems to be a systemic problem that the parties don't

want

> to touch.

Again, folks are not paying attention to what it going on with

secretive laws being slipped into place.

I say throw all of them out of office and begin all over!

now .. and if the projection

> above is accurate .. and the problem is not addressed prior to that

time

> its likely that the Gummit will make some rapid changes without a

lot of

> thought then. Many of you will be around 35 years from now .. in

2041,

> and if you are then eligible to retire (65 and 10 months at present

> schedule) you will probably have paid into the system at least 40 or

> more years.

>

> Am I looking at a problem that is not really there .. or at a

problem

> that is just not getting a lot of attention from American voters?

No, Butch, you haven't missed it, it's bigger than you can imagine!

The billions, and billions we have spent on Irag, Afganistan,

Katrina~that never got to Katrina, this is the most corrupt

government we have had since I've been alive! They are only for big

biz, we are losing all of our production jobs to overseas markets,

even our government paperwork is being outsourced, this is the most

pathetic government that the USA has had in office in decades or

more!

>

> Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch

>

Hard to keep smiling with such going on! You might want to consider

doing what all of the ex gummit folks are doing...they are living in

Belize!!!! Sad isn't it?

No one wants to get on the band wagon, but if they don't impeach or

take control of their voting rights in Nov, 2006, we may be worse off

than we can even imagine. On top of it all, we have millions of

illegals lowering the minimum price of wages and creating a

depression like most of us have never seen, only heard about. The

American voter needs to take back their country as Benjamin Franklin

said it would need to do ever 100 years before goverment corruption

takes over~or it will be too late

Sleep well everyone and consider what needs to be done to have any

kind of SS retirement in the good ole USA! And always remember those

that have the big tax breaks, silver spoons and such don't have to

rely on SS! But they do have to rely on the lil guy to pay the taxes

that they are getting by without paying!

A most fragrant evening to ya,

deb

September 21, 2006

Hi y'all,

This subject is totally out of the area this list is concerned with ..

but probably not totally out of the area the members are concerned with

and I am wondering (also Big Time) just how concerned the average

American citizen is about this problem. Living overseas as I do now, I

rarely get to discuss this with Americans. And as I am planning to

return to the USA early next year .. and planning to draw my SS shortly

after that .. and planning to depend on that SS to ensure I will be able

to continue mortgage payments on a home.

I read here and there that the major domestic concerns of voters in the

upcoming elections are border security, illegal immigrants, the cost of

gasoline, security of the nation, the job market, quality of education

and such .. all important issues for sure .. but I am a bit surprised to

not see the above subject being a major concern.

Each year (I and many of you) get our annual SS Statement .. my latest

is dated April 2006. One paragraph in that statement reads as follows:

" About Social Security's Future .. Social Security is a compact between

generations. For more than 60 years, America has kept the promise of

security for its workers and their families. But now, the Social

Security system is facing serious future financial problems, and action

is needed soon to make sure that the system is sound when today's

younger workers are ready for retirement. (MY NOTE: Those younger

workers they mention are not all that young .. read on.)

Today there are almost 36 million Americans age 65 or older. Their

Social Security retirement benefits are funded by today's workers and

their employers who jointly pay Social Security taxes - just as the

money they paid into Social Security was used to pay benefits to those

who retired before them. (MY NOTE: I and many of you on this list have

paid a long time .. I began in 1960).

Unless action is taken soon to strengthen Social Security, in just 11

years we will begin paying more in benefits that we collect in taxes.

Without changes, by 2041 the Social Security Trust Fund will be

exhausted. By then, the number of Americans 65 or older is expected to

have doubled. (MY NOTE: This might be an underestimation .. if the

Gummit decides to include illegals in the system).

There won't be enough younger people working to pay all of the benefits

owed to those who are retiring. At that point, there will be enough

money to pay only about 74 cents for each dollar of scheduled benefits.

We will need to resolve these issues soon to make sure Social Security

continues to provide a foundation of protection for future generations

as it has done in the past.

Visit Social Security on the Net .. http://www.socialsecurity.gov