Quality of EO ** Was: Rose Hydrosol Shipments ** IV

[Guest guest]

, Butch Owen <butchbsi

wrote:

 

> Actually .. everyone is not looking for the best products .. many

are

> looking for the best price .. maybe due to necessity .. maybe due

to

> lack of understanding of the EO market.

 

Thank you Butch for your extensive explanation on EOs, their

pricing, purity and quality relation. Not at all boring. That's the

stuff someone needs to know.

 

I've been working with EOs for longer then I can count, and still

don't have all the info. Over the years I've gotten better in

judging them, but only through experimentation.

It's much like buying produce in the store..... we're produce

farmers, so we know what certain things should taste like, and I

can't even bring home tomatoes for example, because nobody will eat

them -they don't taste like they should.

Bananas - we don't know, we only know the better or worse from the

stores.

 

I know what the EOs I distill smell like, how they work, and that's

only relative to NE climate, still with variations depending on the

soil grown. I wouldn't know what something should be like from Egypt

or India, but there are some factors I'm looking for, since I

experienced the difference.

 

Price is a factor, yes. I don't have a whole lot to spend, BUT if

what I have is spent on something inferior, it really is a waste. I

find that especially if there is not a lot of money, quality matters

even more.

But as you said, Butch, there is so much going on with EOs, it's

hard to know who is who, doing what, unless people talk about it on

list like this and NP.

 

And yes, people like you need to be advertised all over the place,

so people can learn about EOs, and make an educated choice. There is

too much hocus pocus going on, with not all that many reputable

sellers.

 

That's why I am really, really glad Anya talks about you and Chris

in NP. I'm not just being nice LOL

Glad you're going to stop in more often, or we all have to come over

here to meet you......

 

 

 

 

> And I see that folks are more concerned about the realities of

dermal

> application of this or that percentage of EO than they are about

the

> hypothetical, extrapolated data that comes from sterile lab tests

using

> mice and such and then speculating that under the best of

conditions, a

> normally unsafe EO (like Wintergreen) is safe if used in a

dilution that

> is too complicated for 99% of the lay folks in the industry to

ever be

> able to calculate or measure. ;-)

>

 

I know you're rally, really bussy, but since you mentioned

Wintergreen, I just have to ask......

 

I've heard much lately about the boo hoo on using Sweet Birch. All

the research I have done, only showed Birch tar as restricted, which

is not the same thing of course.

I'm using sweet birch EO in combination with other herbs and EOs in

a massage lotion. It started with my husband's back surgeries, and

came to the point where we were done with surgeries, when I

discovered what that stuff can do. We all have been using it for

years now, and it really keeps us going. I have a few regular

customers which wouldn't want to do without it either. No problems

in all that time and use with sensitizing or any negative side

effects. It is dilluted in the lotion, but I'm using a good amount.

 

What is your oppinion on Sweet Birch EO?

 

Thanks again for all the info, and wait with the reply to this

question, until you have some time.

 

Susanne

[Guest guest]

Hey Susanne, Anya .. other good folks ..

 

>>>I read once you have to get your name/brand out there nine

>>>times before it registeres with buyers. So you're way behind

>>>on NP and the Guild!

>>>

>>>Plus, your email addy is bouncing on NP group. They need to know

>>>your products, Butch -- hey, this prod goes for Chris, too! LOL.

>>

>>And thanks a lot, too Anya, for mentioning Butch and Chris in NP.

 

Thank you ma'am for thanking Anya for mentioning Chris and I. ;-)

 

>>If you hadn't mentioned them, NP -over 1000 members now, wouldn't know

>>about some great products. Some might anyway, but it would be left to

>>chance. Everyone is always looking for the best products.

 

Actually .. everyone is not looking for the best products .. many are

looking for the best price .. maybe due to necessity .. maybe due to

lack of understanding of the EO market.

 

For many years I and many others have preached that high prices do not

ensure quality .. but extremely low prices almost always ensure lack of

quality. And .. purity does NOT ensure quality .. there are many pure,

mediocre oils out and about. On pricing, there is a fair standard in

the international market .. one can track the norms easily enough if

they are into bulk buying .. EO from one country will have a different

price norm than will the same Botanical from another country .. just as

Napa Valley or Rhine Valley White Wines will be priced differently than

White Wines from Podunk, Arkansas.

 

This is not to say that one dealer selling 10 ml of this or that EO

should necessarily be close to the price of another dealer .. the cost

of small Retail size bottles of EO is often driven by the volume of

sales of a dealer .. if they sell few oils they must have a higher

profit margin in order to stay in business .. and .. if they sell few

oils they are going to pay more for the oils they purchase because 10

kilos of an oil costs far less per ml than does 1 kilo .. so they must

tack on a higher price for what they sell.

 

Exceptions to the above are the Multi Level Marketers .. like Young

Living .. they buy in large volume for a low price .. but they sell for

wildly high prices and then share profits with an up line. But YL is

an organization supported by groupies and/or cult members who are

willing to pay ridiculous prices in the first place.

 

What drives the train on price and what those who are seeking quality

should look for .. is not the boutique terms often used to describe

essential oils .. its simply and primarily ... Origin!

 

If we do not know the Origin of an oil .. then we know nothing about the

quality .. or what the price should be. Dealers should list the Origin

of products they sell because that is VERY IMPORTANT information.

 

Examples .. Pepper, Black (Piper nigrum) from India is half the cost of

the higher quality oil from Madagascar. Bay Rum (Pimenta racemosa) from

Dominican Republic is half the cost of higher quality oil from Jamaica.

Bergamot from Ivory Coast is half the cost and Bergamot from China is

one third the cost of the quality Bergamot from Italy. Rose Otto from

Russia or China are one third the cost of those from Turkey or Bulgaria,

but in my opinion .. they don't have even 1/10th of the quality of the

Turkish and Bulgarian. These examples hold true for almost all the EO

in the world .. and I'll spare y'all the boredom of me listing them

cause I reckon I've made my point. ;-)

 

Lemme throw a Howsomeever in here now .. the fact that an oil has an

Origin that is considered to be the ultimate production location does

not guarantee purity .. there are slick folks around who " extend " their

EO in order to increase profits .. Caveat Emptor. But in order to be an

informed buyer .. folks gotta ask questions and read answers on lists

like this one .. and then settle on their own informed opinion. One can

NOT become an informed purchaser of EO by reading any and all of the

many books and references around .. period!

 

Furthermore, the so called Certified Organic essential oils around are

not necessarily an indication of quality or purity .. or even that the

aromatic plant from which they were extracted was grown under organic

conditions in the first place .. but that's a good subject for another

post. ;-) Lemme just say that EO that are claimed to be Certified

Organic are few .. those that are truly Certified are even fewer .. some

are bastards with multiple origins. Not a lot different than folks with

a fancy store-bought title .. they can still be low class bastards. ;-)

 

>>Again, thanks a lot Anya for getting the word out. LOL -maybe they should

>>hire you for marketing.

 

Maybe a good idea .. she built the Natural Perfumery List from nothing

to way over 1,000 folks. Chris did the same for this list .. it doubled

in size in less than a year.

 

>>Susanne

>

> Heh. Butch may not be so crazy about me after he finds out I caused

> poor Margaret extra work. My credit card payment for the latest buy

> bounced. Good ol' dyslexic me was one digit off on the expiration

> date. Had to call her to clear it up. Hope I get my goodies soon.

 

I knew it .. I get a copy of all the correspondence to and from AVNP and

credit cards bouncing is a routine .. sometimes its not a matter of one

digit being transposed .. sometimes its the damn banks. Often we run a

card .. it bounces .. run it 10 seconds later .. it accepts. ;-)

 

> But it is true, those two don't advertise on the NP group or the

> Guild, and they're members of both! I guess they think we perfumers

> " stink " ! LOL

 

Some perfumers do stink .. especially them whut make things like Poison

and such. ;-)

 

Truth is .. the personality of Natural Perfumery is slowly changing ..

and I will post more there as a result of those changes. Just a few

weeks ago someone asked for info on Helichrysum italicum and another

list member said the subject was sorta outta the realm of perfumery and

referred them to another AT list .. not this one .. though the person

who referred them is also a member of this list~! But after that I saw

that there were more perfumers who wanted to know lots of info about EO

than there were those who were just concerned about odors and notes and

details only related to perfumery.

 

And I see that folks are more concerned about the realities of dermal

application of this or that percentage of EO than they are about the

hypothetical, extrapolated data that comes from sterile lab tests using

mice and such and then speculating that under the best of conditions, a

normally unsafe EO (like Wintergreen) is safe if used in a dilution that

is too complicated for 99% of the lay folks in the industry to ever be

able to calculate or measure. ;-)

 

> Anya McCoy

> of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

> Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

> Natural Perfumers Chat Group

>

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

 

PS: Y'all who are members of the Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild .. get

a 10% discount on Retail Orders .. IF .. you ask for it.

 

This is a new policy .. so no backdating. ;-)

 

This 10% discount applies ONLY to those Essential Oils shown at URL

http://www.av-at.com/prices.html .. it does not apply to Hydrosols,

Carriers, Wholesale EO, Soaps, Candles, Rose Petal Jam, etc.