Hydrosols

[Guest guest]

Hi y'all,

 

An old post I made to another list .. so I have sanitized it a bit.

 

I don't normally comment on this list but here is an area where I feel

sorta comfortable so I'll comment. I spend a few thousand bucks year

on hydrosols .. just bought three metric tons of Rose Hydrosol from

this year's distillation and I've just returned from Southeast Turkey

where I watched them dump my Rosemary and Oregano and Myrtle and Bay

Laurel Hydrosols into MY barrels. So the subject is near and dear to

my heart.

 

>> And speaking of waters. Can I safely assume that when I am using a

>> hydrosol, the water used in the distillation was pure spring water,

>> or in any way tested for its purity?

 

Not at all .. not unless there is a pure spring running pretty close

to the still or they have it piped in. Odds are they are using city

water. Unless we're talking about the Tunisian hydrodistilled

Rosemary. They haul water trucks and portable stills to the field and

do it there.

 

But what difference does it make anyway? The hydrosol has gone through

a process of boiling and conversion from liquid to steam and back to

liquid .. it is as pure as Caeser's wife.

 

It can ONLY become contaminated if it is later placed into a funky

container. And that often happens if the distiller is lazy or trying

to cut corners. Moreso, it happens when wholesalers mishandle it and

if not, when end-users get it from wholesalers. You should put it into

a sterile container with sterile caps. I prefer colored glass. Don't

touch the lip of the bottle or the cap with your fingers. Don't pour

unused hydrosol back into the container. And of course, refrigeration

will increase the shelf life.

 

If y'all wanna see how Turkish Rose Hydrosol is made then take a trip

through the URLs at the bottom of this post.

 

> I do not think you can safely assume that hydrosols are being

> distilled with pure spring water!

 

Right! Or even that so-called " pure " spring water is really pure.

Might be a dead animal laying in it 14 miles from where you are at.

 

> or that there might be heavy metal contamination, radiation, or other

> dangers.)

 

> It probably like the oils can be tested for purity, but I can't

> imagine the extra cost would be justified.

 

You are right on testing the spring water and mostly right on testing

the hydrosols .. but some folks do test them - I do!

 

> Remember for years the hydrosol was a product the distillers just

> tossed, once the oil had been siphoned off.

 

Hydrosols are still dumped in a lot of cases. I dumped 500 kilos of

Vitex agnus castus hydrosol not long ago as I didn't have a market for

it .. but I won't do it this time cause I have found a market. I guess

there are thousands of metric tons of Oregano Hydrosol dumped every

year in Turkey .. but the hydrosol itself is worthless without a

market and there will always be more hydrosol produced than there is a

market for.

 

The major cost in a hydrosol is the barrels I buy to put it in, the

freight shipping from the still to my office, the air transport and

freight forwarding charges to ship it to Baltimore, and then the

ground transport costs to ship it to my wholesale/retail Maryland

operation. And then there is my routine testing costs. Yep .. testing.

 

Extra cost of testing is not only justified but required unless one is

using preservatives .. which the so-called purists in AT turn their

nose up at so I don't use them. Or .. unless one is foolish and

willing to take a chance on hurting folks as well as their own

reputation. We have our hydrosols tested every 90 days at Superior

Labs, 2514 Billingsly Road, Columbus, OH 43235. Tel: (614) 793-8778 or

(800) 886-5227.

 

> When purchasing hydrosols, I think you just must be very cautious.

 

Right!!! But that is hard to do unless one knows what to be real

cautious about and that's what I'm gonna try to tell y'all here now.

 

> If you are buying direct from the distillers, ask lots of questions

> and establish a relationship.

 

Its nice from an idealistic point of view .. but as I deal with forty

eleven distillers each year, I've found that trying to establish a

totally trusting relationship with folks who don't believe your

warnings in the first place is like trying to herd cats. That's why

folks can see that I only offer hydrosols that are Turkish or

Australian Origin. I only trust myself and Dennis Archer of Oz. Folks

want hydrosols from somewhere else, they must go somewhere else and

cross their fingers. I would love to offer Neroli and some of the

other exotic hydrosols but I am not willing to take the gamble because

I must buy in large volume. That might change this year .. I'm meeting

with a couple of distillers in Bulgaria and Madagascar .. we shall see.

 

I am talking hydrosols now .. not EOs. There are ways to keep honest

people honest with EOs .. analysis testing. And it is ALWAYS better to

buy as close to the still as possible .. the further you get away from

that distiller, the more chance there is of someone trying to stretch

their profit by playing with the oil. Rare is the distiller who would

even consider that .. or even have the time or knowledge to do it.

 

But with hydrosols ... the problem is .. if there is the slightest bit

of moisture left in a container when hydrosols are placed in it .. you

gonna have a problem! Hydrosols are a natural breeding ground for

microbial and fungal critters of all sorts .. just as your tap water

is. The major difference is that the tap water is treated and folks

don't want treated hydrosols.

 

I had to learn this the hard way and I expect some others will also

have learn it that way. Two years ago. I bought 250 kilos of newly

distilled Lavender Hydrosol from a trusted distiller. Never had less

than a pure and high quality EO from that rascal. He sent it to my

office in Ankara in 5 each 50 kilo barrels.

 

As I said, we test our hydrosols every 90 days. But I never expected

one to go bad right after it exited the still. When I shipped that 250

kilos to my company in Maryland, we pulled a sample from one of the

barrels and had it tested - it was fine. We sold that barrel in less

than a month .. a gallon at a time (around 8 lbs ea) .. and then

opened another barrel. The second one had a strange odor .. detectable

to even the inexperienced folks I had working. They told me and I had

them send it for a test. It came back showing mold. So I had them test

the other three barrels and two came clean but one also showed mold.

Keep in mind that these hydrosols hadn't been in those barrels more

than 5 months.

 

Turned out (though never proven) that the distiller dumped some of

last years hydrosols out and refilled some of his barrels. Those two

that were contaminated happened to be refilled. He never admitted this

but I'm 1,000% sure it is what happened.

 

Since that time, I have purchased my own barrels NEW, had them stamped

with my numbers, and delivered to the distiller. Why do I only trust

Butch Owen and Dennis Archer? Because we're the ONLY two folks I know

who I am 100% sure will not cut corners and I can't afford to buy crap

and lose money because a distiller is trifling, ignorant or stubborn.

I dumped 100 kilos of lavender hydrosol that time. Cost me a lotta money.

 

> Additionally, visit the facility if you can to see what is going on.

 

This is nice too and everybody should try to see a still operation ..

but around 95% of the EOs and hydrosols produced are produced in

Emerging Market and Third World Countries .. and besides me and a

small few other folks, who can or wants to go to those countries? And

having spent 30 years in Uncle Sugar's Army, I know that inspections

always go better when they are announced. Try to drop in unnannounced

on a still in the jungles of Madagascar where folks have just recently

stopped (or at least slowed down somewhat) shooting at each other ..

especially since you probably aren't gonna find it in the first place

unless the owner meets you at the airport and guides you in.

 

> If you are buying from a supplier make sure it is from someone

> reputable and some you trust to be getting top quality products.

 

Right .. and make sure they test their hydrosols too cause they might

also trust their bulk or wholesale dealer who trusts the distiller and

though the distiller might be reputable enough to produce fanastic EOs

(most do) he might still cut corners on storing his hydrosols. Trust

everybody but always lock your car. ;-9

 

> Also I think the best way is to buy organic hydrosols.

 

If the plant material the EO is produced from is organic then the

hydrosol will also be organic. But why not wild-grown? Many EOs are

not available except as wild-grown .. half of mine at least. There are

those around who think that wild-grown is natural and cultivated is

not regardless of whether it is Certified or whatever. I'm not one of

those folks though .. ;-p Fact is, I am not so convinced that many of

the Certified Organic products grown are all that superior. Why?

 

First .. in some countries, its political to a point. If you can buy

justice from the best judges on the bench, do you think you can't also

buy Certified Organic documentation. I've spent over half my life in

the Third World and Emerging Market Countries .. its not a lot

different than in the USA maybe .. we're just not so blatent about it

in the USA.

 

But even if the system is honest .. Farmer A works hard to follow the

rules but he can't control Ol' Mastah when He decides to take a bit of

dust from the fields of Farmer B .. who is using all kinds of

herbicides and pesticides. So we might have to be concerned with down

wind drift, water seepage, dust storms, acid rain and on and on. What

I'm saying is that we should not make any assumptions .. but we can

always hope.

 

> The organically produced products are monitored very closely, so that

> is your best bet to " almost " assure a pure product.

 

I think you mean Certified Organic. There are no requirements to

monitor basic organic growing conditions. Fact is, in most of the poor

countries organic farming is a necessity .. not a matter of choice. As

for hydrosols, you do need to ensure you have a pure product but you

will have one unless it is contaminated from without. Nobody is likely

to mess with a hydrosol - its the EOs you gotta watch out for. Even

then, purity is not a sign of quality .. they are two different

animals. Two cooks start with pure ingredients and one makes a

fantastic soup while the other makes one that'll gag a maggot off a

gut wagon .. ;-p

 

An analysis test will tell those who can read it whether or not the EO

is pure and also whether the EO is considered to be quality .. that

is, if the profile of chemical constituents are within that footprint

or range that fallable man has determined to be quality. In AT, we

like to call that Aromatherapy Grade .. though some folks say

Therapeutic Grade and I'm not gonna go into why I think that is

walking on thin ice.

 

Is the GC or GC/MS perfect? Nope! But its better than not having one

at all. Even polygraph tests are not perfect. Only the Great Every

Where Spirit is perfect .. but He or She helps them who helps

themselves so we gotta do the best we can to get as much proof of

quality/purity as we can and then hope the Spirits shine down on us

and give us good luck. Being nice to old folks, children, dawgs and

drunks will help a lot.

 

There are exceptions to most everything I have written above. Only way

to cover all of them would be to make this even longer than it is. ;-p

 

Y'all keep smiling, Butch http://www.AV-AT./com

[Guest guest]

, " Butch Owen " <butchbsi

wrote:

>

> Hi y'all,

>

> An old post I made to another list .. so I have sanitized it a bit.

>

> I don't normally comment on this list but here is an area where I

feel

> sorta comfortable so I'll comment. I spend a few thousand bucks year

> on hydrosols .. just bought three metric tons of Rose Hydrosol from

> this year's distillation and I've just returned from Southeast

Turkey

> where I watched them dump my Rosemary and Oregano and Myrtle and Bay

> Laurel Hydrosols into MY barrels. So the subject is near and dear to

> my heart.

>

>

> Hydrosols are still dumped in a lot of cases. I dumped 500 kilos of

> Vitex agnus castus hydrosol not long ago as I didn't have a market

for

> it .. but I won't do it this time cause I have found a market. I

 

 

Hi Butch,

Sorry to hear you had to dump the Vitex! Had I known, I'd have

bought it from you. Got myself a tree, and chew berries when I'm

having a problem...DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Great referenced site for this:

http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Herbal/atkin23.htm

 

 

 

>

> > Also I think the best way is to buy organic hydrosols.

>

> If the plant material the EO is produced from is organic then the

> hydrosol will also be organic. But why not wild-grown? Many EOs are

> not available except as wild-grown .. half of mine at least. There

are

> those around who think that wild-grown is natural and cultivated is

> not regardless of whether it is Certified or whatever. I'm not one

of

> those folks though .. ;-p Fact is, I am not so convinced that many

of

> the Certified Organic products grown are all that superior. Why?

>

> First .. in some countries, its political to a point. If you can buy

> justice from the best judges on the bench, do you think you can't

also

> buy Certified Organic documentation. I've spent over half my life in

> the Third World and Emerging Market Countries .. its not a lot

> different than in the USA maybe .. we're just not so blatent about

it

> in the USA.

>

> But even if the system is honest .. Farmer A works hard to follow

the

> rules but he can't control Ol' Mastah when He decides to take a bit

of

> dust from the fields of Farmer B .. who is using all kinds of

> herbicides and pesticides. So we might have to be concerned with

down

> wind drift, water seepage, dust storms, acid rain and on and on.

What

> I'm saying is that we should not make any assumptions .. but we can

> always hope.

>

> > The organically produced products are monitored very closely, so

that

> > is your best bet to " almost " assure a pure product.

>

> I think you mean Certified Organic. There are no requirements to

> monitor basic organic growing conditions. Fact is, in most of the

poor

> countries organic farming is a necessity .. not a matter of choice.

 

I am leary of just about anything certified as " Organic " . If it's

from a third world country, it's certified via Our folks talking

to " their folks " who assure them that everything is " OK " with their

fields. Who knows what testing has taken place.

I live in a subdivision, with a good piece of land, went organic in

my gardens 10 years ago. I don't pull anything within 15 feet of my

property line to use to eat/dry/infuse, because all of my neighbors

used to use lawn companies to treat their grass to make it look

pristine. 2 years ago the company they all use accidentally sprayed

my lawn instead of one of theirs, even left one of those cute little

flags saying they had been there and sprayed. I had a heart attack

when I got home saw the lawn flag, and got out of my car and couldn't

even breath from the fumes. Of course they swore they didn't do it,

and one of the kids in the neighborhood moved the flag to my yard. I

had the 6 towels I laid on the lawn and then tested for chemical

exposure, sent to them to prove they had indeed done it. I got MSDS

sheets, and at the recommendations of my state conservation

department, ran 1000's of gallons of water over my yard to dilute the

effects of their " Pesticides " off the property. They continued to

deny they had done it, but their technician who had made the mistake,

came to my house and apologized. I'm not a litigious person, so just

went on a neighborhood informational foray with the MSDS sheets, and

because I'm a nurse, who noted that the chemicals could harm their

children and pets, got a significant number of neighbors to change to

an organic pesticde company. I still just use the right bugs,

nematodes, praying mantis, ladybugs, etc to manage my pests, no

chemicals!

The upshot, I use my herbs from my garden for me. I plant down at my

parents farm, and recover wild herbs from their property 150+ acres,

where none of their neighbors use pesticides, as all of them run

cattle and horses, and wouldn't think of putting anything on their

fields, safer there, and I get the ground tested. Hey Butch 15

springs on the property, with dead leaves, bugs, etc falling into

them all the time " Spring Water " , OKEE DOKEE, is great for washing

hair and body in though!

 

I'm skeptical of most any " Organic " product unless I can check it

myself.... getting to know a vendor, and or having products quality

tested.

Not that I don't appreciate seeing same some places, but when WalMart

says it's organic, I just laugh!

 

thanks for all your knowledge Butch!. Can I still get the waxes, and

maybe some Rosemary Hydrosol, maybe that will help my son's German

grade! Sheesh!

Lynn