Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Dave, I'm finally replying to one of your questions rather than the other way around. When I use the term " uses " for eo's I am referring to everything you just said. Lotions, soaps, massage, skincare and scenting the air. Because I am cautious by nature I have always used only one oil at a time although I would love to experiment blending a couple together. But the more I learn regarding the chemical make-up of oils makes it hard for me to understand how people out there can be blending oils in different creations and using/selling them. I'm sure most of those are not reading any chemical analysis of the oils or keeping track of what components are going to be " overlapping " with eachother in the blend. If there is so much to be concerned about when it comes to blending oils that share the same chemical components because too much of that component can be harmful how do people just willy nilly sell things? I've considered making some soaps, lip balms, body butters and bath salts to maybe just sell at local events. I think if I did I would have to be sure that the oils I'm using don't share the same chemical make-up. (AND I would definately blend no more than three together-I say this because I think more is overkill and unnecessary considering as Butch or Martin recently wrote AT is not perfumery and I think that since many oils have specific therapeutic properties I'm sure one does not need to combine many to achieve a specific therapeutic effect.) Susan , " David Lambert " <dlmbrt wrote: > > > Does anyone maybe have an idea what percentage of > > dilution of eo to carrier may be within safe limits when blending > > oils? …probably depend on what the " shared " chemicals > > are and if it is such a small amount maybe it wouldn't have any effect > > anyway > > I can't answer your question .. just too broad .. > > [Dave:] I'm following this one closely. It's not a topic I know a lot > about because I'm a soapmaker and have not been very much into AT. That's > changing, however, mostly due to what I've learned on this list. Even > though I've used EOs for years and years, the more I've learned about them > the more I realize I didn't know and should have made an effort to find out, > and still don't know. I'm just thankful that my instinct has always been to > use them sparingly. > > Now, I have a question: In this thread as in so many others, mention is > constantly being made of " using " oils and combinations of oils. What uses, > exactly, are these? Since soap is a washoff product, I feel relatively safe > in experimenting with small amounts of EOs to enhance the natural scents of > my herbal soaps, but since I like the faint scent of the soap itself, I > don't go hog-wild. I am more liberal in using oils that I know have > antibacterial or similar properties and are generally safe – most especially > lavender and tea tree, and to a lesser extent rosemary, clary sage, > eucalyptus, may chang and a few others. The ones I use for scent, that is, > in VERY small percentages, include patchouli, ylang ylang, lemongrass, and > even clove and wintergreen in tiny amounts. In all of this, I think I've > been pretty safe, and certainly I haven't ever witnessed a bad reaction to > any of my products. In other products such as lip balms, lavender and tea > tree are the only EOs I've ventured to use. In the AT diffuser, I've gotten > a lot more creative and used almost the entire variety of oils at my > disposal, which is quite a few. The other use I've put EOs to is blended > into massage oils. My wife is disabled, and I am able to mix several blends > that help relieve some of here pains. Generally this involves adding a few > drops of wintergreen and/or lavender to a blend of grapeseed and emu oils, > or something along those lines. In addition, I know EOs are used in lotions > and other products that remain on the skin for some time. > > Does this more or less cover the " uses " being spoken of, or are there others > of which I'm completely ignorant? > > Being on this list has really sparked my interest in AT, and as I consider > using EOs more liberally to scent soaps, I'll be learning more about sage > usage (pun intended – originally a mistype, though). If Martin's book is > still on sale after next payday, Butch, expect an order from me! > > > -- > > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/2007 > 11:07 AM > > > > -- > > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/2007 > 11:07 AM > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Hey Dave, >>>Does anyone maybe have an idea what percentage of dilution of eo >>>to carrier may be within safe limits when blending oils? .. >>>probably depend on what the " shared " chemicals are and if it is >>>such a small amount maybe it wouldn't have any effect anyway >> >>I can't answer your question .. just too broad .. > [Dave:] I'm following this one closely. It's not a topic I know > a lot about because I'm a soapmaker and have not been very much > into AT. That's changing, however, mostly due to what I've learned > on this list. Even though I've used EOs for years and years, the > more I've learned about them the more I realize I didn't know and > should have made an effort to find out, and still don't know. I'm > just thankful that my instinct has always been to use them sparingly. Good it is that you are learning and teaching .. plus marketing .. is what this list is all about. > (Clipped) In this thread as in so many others, mention is constantly > being made of " using " oils and combinations of oils. What uses, exactly, > are these? I sorta assume that when they talk about adding EO to carriers they are talking about making massage oils or maybe some kind of creme or lotion. When folks are using EO just for inhalation or diffusion there is no need to be concerned about dilution .. no need to dilute. > Since soap is a washoff product, I feel relatively safe in experimenting > with small amounts of EOs to enhance the natural scents of my herbal soaps, > but since I like the faint scent of the soap itself, I don't go hog-wild. > I am more liberal in using oils that I know have antibacterial or similar > properties and are generally safe – most especially lavender and tea tree, > and to a lesser extent rosemary, clary sage, eucalyptus, may chang and a few > others. The ones I use for scent, that is, in VERY small percentages, include > patchouli, ylang ylang, lemongrass, and even clove and wintergreen in tiny > amounts. In all of this, I think I've been pretty safe, and certainly I haven't > ever witnessed a bad reaction to any of my products. Odds are slim that you will witness a bad reaction to oils in a soap unless the user has problems that would cause them to become easily irritated by contact with an oil .. or worse, if they had previously become sensitized to that oil or one of the chemicals in that oil. > In other products such as lip balms, lavender and tea tree are the > only EOs I've ventured to use. In the AT diffuser, I've gotten a lot > more creative and used almost the entire variety of oils at my disposal, > which is quite a few. The other use I've put EOs to is blended into > massage oils. My wife is disabled, and I am able to mix several blends > that help relieve some of here pains. Generally this involves adding a > few drops of wintergreen and/or lavender to a blend of grapeseed and emu > oils, or something along those lines. Keep in mind that the major therapeutic value of a massage is the massage itself .. the human touch .. not the massage oil. Massage works if you use corn or sunflower oil. There is psychological and emotional and usually physiological gain from using EO but its not due to dermal absorption .. with some exceptions .. its due to inhalation of the oils. The exceptions on absorption are those oils that we must be very careful about .. like the Wintergreen. It works to stop pain but it is not an oil that should be used often because Methyl salicylate (which is 98% - 99% of the total content of Wintergreen) stays in the body a long time - the liver does not process it well. Infrequent use would probably not harm a person with a healthy liver but the reasons folks use them is for chronic problems so infrequent use is not the norm. And I for one can't tell you just how healthy my liver is .. but maybe other folks know more about theirs. > In addition, I know EOs are used in lotions and other products that remain > on the skin for some time. I think that is what Susan was talking about when she asked her questions on safe blending. > Does this more or less cover the " uses " being spoken of, or are > there others of which I'm completely ignorant? What has been discussed here is pretty much it .. except for the subject of ingestion .. different critter for sure and then we get into toxicity and the WD-50 tests, etc. .. all shown in the Safety Manual " Plant Aromatics " . And there are some wild things that some folks do .. like cramming oils into various orifices in the body .. but I ain't gonna go there on the list or in practice. ;-) > Being on this list has really sparked my interest in AT, and as I consider > using EOs more liberally to scent soaps, I'll be learning more about sage > usage (pun intended – originally a mistype, though). Good it is and happy I am to hear that. I believe in EO .. use them for many things and often. I have not used over the counter or prescription medicine since around 1995 .. and though I get a bug now and then I am able to kick his butt in 24-48 hours .. sometimes even less. Might be that I come from the deep end of the gene pool as far as my immune system is concerned .. I had pretty healthy parents and grandparents .. or it might be that I am a walking dead man who is gonna keel over tomorrow. But if that happens I think folks who file past my casket are gonna say that for an old fart, I am one of the healthiest looking dead man they done ever seen. ;-) > If Martin's book is still on sale after next payday, Butch, expect an > order from me! It will be available .. I think. I have maybe 15 copies left now. If you wanna be certain to get one .. just order it, we'll send it and you can pay me when you are flush again. ;-) Y'all have a good one .. and keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Dave, I'm finally replying to one of your questions rather than the other way around. [Dave:] See, it all works out. I appreciate ya ;-) But the more I learn regarding the chemical make-up of oils makes it hard for me to understand how people out there can be blending oils in different creations and using/selling them. [Dave:] At a certain point I realized that I knew not a thing about the chemical constituents of these oils, and that the only thing that had kept me safe was an instinct that told me they were potent botanicals. And seeing the way so many folks seem to just pour them into soaps and all kinds of other products made red flags go up. Then I joined this list and began to realize how ignorant I have truly been. If there is so much to be concerned about when it comes to blending oils that share the same chemical components because too much of that component can be harmful how do people just willy nilly sell things? [Dave:] I think the answer is that most people are not overly sensitive to most of the oils that are commonly used. I have always thought that many people overuse scents, but I’m not someone who likes perfumes. The commonest objection I have to other soapmakers’ work is, “too much scent!” But people are sooo attached to the idea that every product they use has to have that “special” scent, which to me is an abuse of our olfactory receptors. What I want to smell is the flowers on the patio, and the mud along the creek, and whether there’s been a skunk out back – not a bunch of perfumes and chemical imitations of someone’s idea of something evocative. Phooey! AT on the other hand is a subject I’ve come to respect. It’s helped me personally. I've considered making some soaps, lip balms, body butters and bath salts to maybe just sell at local events. I think if I did I would have to be sure that the oils I'm using don't share the same chemical make-up. (AND I would definately blend no more than three together-I say this because I think more is overkill and unnecessary considering as Butch or Martin recently wrote AT is not perfumery and I think that since many oils have specific therapeutic properties I'm sure one does not need to combine many to achieve a specific therapeutic effect.) Susan [Dave:] I always encourage people to learn soapmaking. It’s a wonderful craft. You can learn to make absolutely wonderful products for the skin, that will have people begging you for more. It’s an equal blend of art and science, and I’ve not been able to find the clear line between the two. I totally agree as far as blending oils goes. In soaps, I have never used more than three. Usually one will be dominant, which will be the one whose special properties I wish to use. Most often that’ll be lavender or tea tree, which are both splendid stand-alone scents. But I like mint, and eucalyptus, and of course the temptation to blend things is irresistible, even for someone who doesn’t care for perfume. We have a diffuser that I’ve used four or five oils at a time in, but generally it’s two or three, or less. Recently I combined more or less equal amounts of tangerine and ylang-ylang with a few drops of petitgrain in the diffuser, and hit upon a really sexy smell that not only goes well in the bedroom, I also can’t wait to use it in soap. It won’t be the same, though. Citrus scents aren’t very durable to begin with, and they don’t smell exactly the same after a lye bath, anyway. I’m thinking a little clary sage might anchor it, but we’ll see. I think you’re completely right about not needing to combine many for therapeutic effect. I’m wary of the “kitchen sink” approach in soap ingredients, too. -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release 3/25/2007 11:07 AM -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release 3/25/2007 11:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Good it is that you are learning and teaching .. plus marketing .. is what this list is all about. [Dave:] Well, for a long time all I knew about aromatherapy was that it was often used as a front for brothels in Los Angeles and San Fransisco. And when I first heard of it, the notion of “sniffin’ thangs” to “get better” seemed, well, counterintuitive. Odds are slim that you will witness a bad reaction to oils in a soap unless the user has problems that would cause them to become easily irritated by contact with an oil .. or worse, if they had previously become sensitized to that oil or one of the chemicals in that oil. [Dave:] I don’t know when I was first made aware of the possibility of sensitization. I’d known about tea tree oil since the 1960s and peppermint oil all my life; knew you shouldn’t put wintergreen on the skin. That’s pretty much the sum of my knowledge of EOs until after I began making soap around 4 years ago. Two years ago I went to work for a small chain of natural-food supermarkets, and I’ve sucked up knowledge like a sponge, especially in the vitamin/supplements/herbs/essential oils department. I have a willing crew of testers for my soaps, tattoo balms, lip balms and so forth, and most of them come back and buy more. And what’s really cool is that when the testers get rotated out of the essential oils racks, I usually inherit the old ones. So I have a “library” of at least 50 different essential oils sitting on my shelf at any time, which gives me great opportunities for experimentation and practical use. Keep in mind that the major therapeutic value of a massage is the massage itself .. the human touch .. not the massage oil. [Dave:] I totally agree. I’d hoped that a few drops of wintergreen would help with the pain, but based on what you said about the liver, I’d say any relief is offset by that consideration. I had thought, too, that a little of this or that in the massage oil might have a calming or uplifting effect through AT, but on reflection decided that it would be better to put those oils in the diffuser. Nevertheless, some oils do penetrate the skin better than others, and also have a different feel during massage. Some oils like emu and jojoba supposedly penetrate especially deep and carry along with them the virtues of ancillary ingredients, but I take that kind of thing with a pretty big grain of salt until I see it proven. Still, for my wife’s fibromyalgia, emu oil does seem to be somewhat helpful – as well as some skin conditions. And I for one can't tell you just how healthy my liver is .. but maybe other folks know more about theirs. [Dave:] Butch, you’re like most folks. In learning to treat my wife’s fibromyalgia, along with my own gout and arthritis with natural medicine, I’ve learned more about our livers than I imagined possible. I’ve learned that a healthy liver is essential to good health, and most folks don’t have one. Our diet and our way of life destroy the liver over the course of years. Now, standard doctors never offered my wife a doggone thing besides pain-killers and antidepressants. That’s how they treat fibromyalgia, with maybe some steroids and some counseling thrown in. Twenty years of this. Six months ago she was in a wheelchair. Then a naturopath showed us how to take the stress off the liver and begin rebuilding it through dietary and lifestyle changes, and she is recovering. Now she almost never even needs her cane. Sorry about the diversion there...the other big driver behind my learning is my wife’s health. I found my soulmate late in life after we both been drug around the corner more than a few times...survived and rose above...and found each other...I won’t lose her. I already know that EOs can play a role in her recovery. So the more I learn, the better. I think folks who file past my casket are gonna say that for an old fart, I am one of the healthiest looking dead man they done ever seen. ;-) [Dave:] Well, I’d like to live out another half-century, and then have them file past and say that. One of ‘em will say, “Geez, he was just older than dirt, wasn’t he!” and another will say, “Yeah, but he was a pistol back in the day.” Then of course the brass band will drown out further conversation, and the real par-tay can start. It will be available .. I think. I have maybe 15 copies left now. If you wanna be certain to get one .. just order it, we'll send it and you can pay me when you are flush again. ;-) [Dave:] Dang. You are something else, dude. I’m touched. -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release 3/25/2007 11:07 AM -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release 3/25/2007 11:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 At 11:38 AM 3/26/2007, you wrote: > And what's really cool is >that when the testers get rotated out of the essential oils racks, I usually >inherit the old ones. So I have a " library " of at least 50 different >essential oils sitting on my shelf at any time, which gives me great >opportunities for experimentation and practical use. ummmm... I've always wondered about those testers. How often DO they rotate them out? just thinking that they seem to violate all the 'how to store' rules... not tightly capped, not in a dark place, etc... Seems to me the oils would age a lot faster than under 'normal " storage conditions... and I'd be leary of using any of the conifers or citrus oils...or lavender... or ANY oil that doesn't improve with age.... Over 10 years online supplying Aromatherapy and Healthcare Professionals Essential Oils, Hydrosols, Accessories, Hard to find Books and Videos <http://www.naturesgift.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 ummmm... I've always wondered about those testers. How often DO they rotate them out? [Dave:] Where I work, about every three months. just thinking that they seem to violate all the 'how to store' rules... and I'd be leary of using any of the conifers or citrus oils...or lavender... or ANY oil that doesn't improve with age.... [Dave:] Absolutely right! For any serious work, even making soap, I start with a fresh bottle. But for experimenting with scents and combinations, it’s a fabulous resource. -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release 3/25/2007 11:07 AM -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release 3/25/2007 11:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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