Rain Forests - Emotions - Activists - Truth

[Guest guest]

Hey Dave,

 

>>Maybe the main problem we have in the world today is too many people

>>with too many demands .. and too many others wanting to see that those

>>demands are met without harm to the planet. Such goals are good and

>>if those folks are sincere .. then I salute them .. but its not very

>>realistic. It is claimed that Jesus fed the multitudes with a few

>>loaves of bread and a couple of fish and had baskets full of bread and

>>fish left over after everyone was fed. That is a tough act to follow.

>

> [Dave:] It is, indeed, a tough act to follow. As always, Butch, I find

> your insights valuable and pretty much right on target most of the time.

 

Thankee sir. :-P

 

> It seems to me that what we've done is create a way of life that is

ultimately

> unsustainable, and that all over the world, things that used to work

are now

> falling apart. And it seems to me that I'm seeing this at many

levels, from

> desperate governments to co-workers with their private crises and

screw-ups.

> Some people are talking about all the astrological stuff going on,

which I

> tend to think is a crock, but who knows? I just think we've done

bad, and

> the piper's asking to be paid. I think one world is ending and

another is

> beginning, and the change is agonizing for a lot of people.

 

All the things we hold to be good due to science and modernization are

a result of mankind's ability to improve living conditions .. to a

point. There will be no slowdown in this forward march .. we might be

bringing the dead back to life in time.

 

If there are no terrible castrophies that wipe out half the population

of the Earth, odds are good that generations to come .. as it was with

generations of the past, will be forced to live a different lifestyle

than those of today. Some folks think they couldn't survive if things

that are dear to them are taken away .. I recall my Grandpa and lots

of other folks saying how theirs was the best of times and me and mine

would not be able to live as they lived .. truth is, I didn't really

want to live as they lived .. I liked American Bandstand and Blue

Suede Shoes and electric lights, etc.

 

Mankind has survived and I believe will continue to survive .. a good

example of how a group can survive if they must is the American

Indian. Even if some don't handle it well the group will survive.

The toughest thing (I think) would be if major change came rapidly ..

we can get used to changes as long as they are not sudden.

 

Going from carbon fuels to other energy sources will obviously cause

some changes .. not sure how quickly they will be noticed .. and not

sure how soon we can make it happen. Folks without oil will burn coal

or wood .. and there will always be those who protest nuclear power ..

as there will be those who protest fuels made from grain of sugarcane

or whatever. Solar and wind energy sound great but they are no all

that efficient .. we have both here in Turkey and back before I was in

the Essential Oils business .. I built foreign invested companies here

... one was Cannon Power .. wind power. I read their feasibility

studies and it was obvious that wind power would never be enough ..

and if can't be established everywhere anyway .. same for solar energy

systems.

 

If it sounds like I have given up on mankind being able to make major

changes in the world of nature .. that's not the case at all. I have

never believed it could happen so its not a matter of having believed

and no longer believing. We can affect our environment but I believe

there is little we can do to affect climate change .. its an ongoing

thing. Global and regional climate changes have been going down for

millions and millions of years. The presumption (and that is what it

is) that mankind is the cause for global warming is not accepted by

all those who are in the know .. maybe mankind is responsible to some

degree for global warming but there are many other variables to

consider .. and if mankind is the major cause then to what degree and

to what degree can mankind change it.

 

Climatic variability can occur frequently and temporarily .. like each

of the major volcanic eruptions the world experiences each year ..

each of them affect the climate for as much as two years .. and if we

ever get smacked by a good size meteorite we can expect major changes.

Then variations in solar radiation and the orbit of the Earth also

cause changes.

 

High concentration of greenhouse gases is not something new .. but

when it happens the results are seen more quickly than they are with

other variables .. like shifting plate tectonics.

 

Climate change has occured throughout the history of the Earth .. it

is inevitable and it can be a self-perpetuating process. I believe

mankind can do a bit to affect the environment .. but even then all

the effort will be temporary .. short lived. As for the climate ..

mankind can do very little about that and it will continue regardless

of our efforts.

 

When climate change occurs we can expect to lose those species of life

that can't adapt but there are also new species created .. that's what

evolution is all about.

 

Sometimes you can't get there from here .. change is inevitable.

Plans to ensure sustainable natural resources are not as doable as

many wish they were.

 

Maybe I'm wrong .. maybe not.

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

[Guest guest]

All the things we hold to be good due to science and modernization are

a result of mankind's ability to improve living conditions .. to a

point. There will be no slowdown in this forward march .. we might be

bringing the dead back to life in time.

 

[Dave:] I agree. I do think there might be some tweaking of our

definitions and paradigms of what constitutes progress.

 

Mankind has survived and I believe will continue to survive ..

The toughest thing (I think) would be if major change came rapidly ..

we can get used to changes as long as they are not sudden.

 

[Dave:] True enough, and I tend to think that some changes will come pretty

suddenly on those who are worst prepared for it.

 

Going from carbon fuels to other energy sources will obviously cause

some changes .. not sure how quickly they will be noticed ..

 

[Dave:] I have a feeling there’s another energy source that hasn’t been

tapped yet. Tesla knew about it. I try to stay away from all the

conspiracy theories around this guy, but there’s plenty of documentation

that he was on to something.

 

 

If it sounds like I have given up on mankind being able to make major

changes in the world of nature .. that's not the case at all.

 

[Dave:] I haven’t, either. In fact I think there are signs of hope

everywhere.

 

maybe mankind is responsible to some

degree for global warming but there are many other variables to

consider .. and if mankind is the major cause then to what degree and

to what degree can mankind change it.

 

[Dave:] I’m not completely convinced, either. I think we should strive to

lower our impact on our environment, and I think we’ve pretty much made a

mess of things already. But you’re right about climate change being way too

complicated and the science too speculative to be sure we’re totally

responsible – or even a little bit.

 

Sometimes you can't get there from here .. change is inevitable.

 

[Dave:] That’s how we know we’re alive, eh?

 

 

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Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.22/739 - Release 3/29/2007

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[Guest guest]

I agree completely with Butch that Humankind will survive most

catastrophes. We are a tough species capable of living in most

climates with or without technology and on a diet as varied as one can

image. It's just that the technology tends to make us more

comfortable. Not having to spend all day hunting and gathering to

survive, has always allowed the few to use their minds to produce

fundamental ideas to improve the lot of the majority. In tribes that

are still hunter gatherers you will rarely find anyone who knows how

to produce a vaccine capable of saving millions, or develop the

technology to allow the tribe to lead a more comfortable existence.

Instead what you get with hunter gathers is a total reliance on

superstition, unthinking tradition and that " this is the way things

are and must always be " . I detest that kind of mentality. So who wants

a world climate change to force us back millions of years.

 

I am not certain that this global warming is created by humankind, but

to me what the cause is, must be of less importance than us not

contributing to make it worse. It is not just us adding carbon

dioxide to the atmosphere. The problems we are causing are numerous

and include pollution of the Oceans with wastes. That is in my opinion

far more of a threat than man-made CO2 emissions. Kill the plankton

in the sea and you kill a vital food chain and a vital CO2 sink. Like

Butch said, the planet has always suffered climate change, what is

different now is the gross pollution with a wide range of activities

and emissions, particularly of eco persistent man-made chemicals. The

known pollution of breast milk with man-made chemicals is but one

example of the potential harm we are allowing our industries and the

politicians backing them to cause.

 

That is why I am against the felling of trees to produce essential

oils. Those trees assist in keeping the CO2 down to reasonable levels

as well as the jungles providing us with a natural chemical factory.

The more that jungles are eroded, the more we will need to rely on

man made polluting chemistry to provide drugs and other products.

 

What we all need to protest about is the incompetent scientific

community who on the one hand are trying to find ways to reduce global

warming, while on the other hand allowing other scientists to promote

technologies that do the reverse. These scientists often rely on the

tax payer to fund their activities via Universities, therefore you

have a direct influence via your politicians if you choose to use it.

The recent IFRA debate over fragrances is a great example of one group

of University educated scientists NOT taking into account

environmental issues. Also, the recent incompetent research claiming

estrogenic activity from essential oils in products. All coming from

a research unit partially funded by the drug companies whose only

interest is pushing synthetic products.

 

Martin Watt

http://www.aromamedical.com

 

 

, " Butch Owen " <butchbsi wrote:

>

> Hey Dave,

>

> >>Maybe the main problem we have in the world today is too many people

> >>with too many demands .. and too many others wanting to see that those

>