Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Hey y'all, Back on the subject of Political Correctness and the tendency to go to extremes to avoid insulting or offending folks who would probably not feel insulted or offended if they looked at the subject discussed in the entire context of a presentation .. especially (and in this case) when the context is a History Lesson. Below is a news article from the Times Online .. from the UK. It is going to blow your mind .. I think. As I wrote yesterday, Political Correctness is a barrier to discussion and it precludes dealing with problems that should be discussed. The article below is about .. > Teachers are dropping controversial subjects such as the Holocaust and the Crusades > from history lessons because they do not want to offend children from certain races > or religions, a report claims. If we must consider such things when teaching history and sociology .. and geography, to name but a few disciplines that require discussion of various religions .. then we will have one heckuva tough row to hoe because I can't recall many historical events that have not upset some group. Unless I knew better .. I would assume that avoidance of the particular " controversial " subjects above .. by teachers in the UK .. is driven by fear of reprisal by groups that take offense to most any discussion from the West .. the same groups that get upset over cartoons. In any case .. I think it is ridiculous .. totally ridiculous! http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article1600686.ece Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 and see, that just drive ME nutz! I've been avoiding the political discussions because I'm an " in your face " type person and without being able to read the person I'm talking to and vice versa, it can cause unintenended miscommunication/impressions. However this just pisses me off. I hate censorship and " burying " history so as not to offend is not only offensive, it's stupid. It's not just the brits that do it either. Do you think I learned in school about the roundup of the japanese in the United States during world war 2? Nope. It wasn't school that taught me the expanse of cruelty and nastiness that we perpetrated upon the American Indians either. Though we learned about Slavery in school it was the good Northern Folk who had never condoned it nor ever owned slaves, fighing the injustice and cruelty of the bad folks in the south and there was very little if any mention of any of the flip side. If folk start burying certain pieces of history so as not to upset folk, you might as well banish the subject completely. The good as well as the bad because there isn't going to be anything left to write about, There is not one group of people that hasn't been, cold, cruel, viscious, intolerant, merciless to someone at some point. History is supposed to teach us something, and if we hide certain parts of it, how can we learn to not only how to avoid such inhumanity? There was a piece in the news here a few weeks ago. A man who had been in the concentration camps and was lecturing here in the SF bay area was cornered by some fruit cake who attempted to kidnap him because he wanted this man to confess that the holocaust had never happened. That it was just a lie. >sigh< Just because a truth is uncomfortable doesn't mean it doesn't have something to teach us or that it's invalid and denying history does not have anything to do with Political Correctness, just plain old fear of oneself being made uncomfortable. Now I'm going to shut up, tend to my headache and prolly go beat up " The cat who lives under the bed " , who doesn't any more (much). And before anyone can get upset about me beating up my cat, He likes it. He's not a very social cat, but he seems to love me and likes it when I roll him upside down and in general thump on him. He's a little tank of a cat, very solid and amazingly, gentle. When he slaps at me, he never uses claws, but he's so powerful he doesn't need to. You KNOW when you've been smacked by that cat! ;-) K On 4/3/07, Butch Owen <butchbsi wrote: > . > > > -- Cheers! Kathleen Petrides The Woobey Queen Http://www.woobeyworld.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Dear Kathleen, Awesome reply! Keep up the political incorrectness. There needs to be a lot more of it where history is concerned. When my brother and I were little my father would tell us about the problems that the Bulgarians had living under the Turkish Yoke for over 1500 years. We thought that he was just telling us bad stories. He left when he was 14 years old to avoid be drafted into World War I. Then when I made my first trip to Bulgaria I found out that everything he said was true. Yes, we do learn from history and we always need to be truthful even if the truth does hurt. Love, Rhavda Scents of Success Arlington, Texas Original Message: ----------------- Woobey Queen WoobeyQueen Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:53:54 -0700 Re: OT: Schools Drop Holocaust Lessons to Avoid Offence and see, that just drive ME nutz! I've been avoiding the political discussions because I'm an " in your face " type person and without being able to read the person I'm talking to and vice versa, it can cause unintenended miscommunication/impressions. However this just pisses me off. I hate censorship and " burying " history so as not to offend is not only offensive, it's stupid. It's not just the brits that do it either. Do you think I learned in school about the roundup of the japanese in the United States during world war 2? Nope. It wasn't school that taught me the expanse of cruelty and nastiness that we perpetrated upon the American Indians either. Though we learned about Slavery in school it was the good Northern Folk who had never condoned it nor ever owned slaves, fighing the injustice and cruelty of the bad folks in the south and there was very little if any mention of any of the flip side. History is supposed to teach us something, and if we hide certain parts of it, how can we learn to not only how to avoid such inhumanity? K Cheers! Kathleen Petrides The Woobey Queen Http://www.woobeyworld.com -- mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Hi Butch an all Well, this got me mad because if true, its just so, so, SO totally wrong that I was planning on writing to my MP to protest. But first I went looking for our national Core Curriculum to see what the actual facts are as so often our newspapers put a slant on things - for whatever reason...<shrug>. The Core Curriculum is mandatory for all schools (of whatever denomination, private or state) in the UK, and is split in to stages ( " Key Stage " ) for the different age groups. Here's what I found for Key Stage 3 (that's age 11 - 16) on the UK Government's own Education & Skills - The Standards Site. http://tinyurl.com/2yr2g4 Scroll to item 19 " How and why did the Holocaust Happen? " - click into it to read the extent to which this subject is covered - including " What was the Final Solution? " This unit is designed for year 9 pupils - that's age 13/14 - which I (personally) think is a more appropriate age to study this dark part of our history in depth, rather than at primary age. I think the dear old Times may well be doing a little wooden spooning (mixing) because although Primary School do indeed cover WW2, they cover it (as the ages of the pupils dictate - 5 to 11 years old's) on the more day-to-day aspects of living through the war - evacuation, rationing, food parcels from USA, women taking on men's jobs, what school was like...etc. Primary school kids don't have the Holocaust on the syllabus to start with - so I'm not at all sure how or why the Times put this story together. Senior school pupils cover this vital part of history with the attention it deserves. How sum ever - just because this story is exaggerated doesn't mean there is no problem. We all should keep an eye on whats going on around us. Keenly. HTH clear whats happening in UK schools - a little. LLx On 03/04/07, Butch Owen <butchbsi wrote: > Hey y'all, > > Back on the subject of Political Correctness and the tendency to go to > extremes to avoid insulting or offending folks who would probably not > feel insulted or offended if they looked at the subject discussed in > the entire context of a presentation .. especially (and in this case) > when the context is a History Lesson. > > Below is a news article from the Times Online .. from the UK. It is > going to blow your mind .. I think. > > As I wrote yesterday, Political Correctness is a barrier to discussion > and it precludes dealing with problems that should be discussed. > > The article below is about .. > > > Teachers are dropping controversial subjects such as the Holocaust > and the Crusades > > from history lessons because they do not want to offend children > from certain races > > or religions, a report claims. > > If we must consider such things when teaching history and sociology .. > and geography, to name but a few disciplines that require discussion > of various religions .. then we will have one heckuva tough row to hoe > because I can't recall many historical events that have not upset some > group. > > Unless I knew better .. I would assume that avoidance of the > particular " controversial " subjects above .. by teachers in the UK .. > is driven by fear of reprisal by groups that take offense to most any > discussion from the West .. the same groups that get upset over cartoons. > > In any case .. I think it is ridiculous .. totally ridiculous! > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article1600686.ece > > Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch > > > > The information contained in these e-mails is not a substitute > for diagnosis and treatment by a qualified, licensed professional. > > > Step By Step Instructions For Making Herbal Labna Cheese! So easy, SO yummy! > http://www.aromaticsage.com/cz.htm > > > To adjust your group settings (i.e. go no mail) see the following link: /join > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 History is supposed to teach us something, and if we hide certain parts of it, how can we learn to not only how to avoid such inhumanity? [Dave:] The first thing we can let history teach us is that it’s the winner’s version of what happened, not necessarily what really happened. I don’t know of a more important principle than the individual search for truth. -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/745 - Release 4/3/2007 12:48 PM -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/745 - Release 4/3/2007 12:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Political Correctness is a barrier to discussion and it precludes dealing with problems that should be discussed. [Dave:] That’s a statement I agree with 111%. I was just thinking...what’s WRONG with a classroom discussion that goes, “When yada yada happened, a lot of groups got upset. A lot of them are still upset. Does anyone know anyone who’s still upset about yada yada? Yes? Maybe you could write a report and present it to the class so that we can see both sides, and then we can all talk about it.” Or something along those lines... I have a Mexican co-worker...I have quite a few Mexican co-workers, but this particular one is someone I have frequent political discussions with, especially about the reconquista and the way the current immigration climate affects him and his family and friends. The reason I have as much respect for Laureano as I have is that we can throw the PC BS out the window and speak our minds. -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/743 - Release 4/2/2007 4:24 PM -- Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/745 - Release 4/3/2007 12:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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