FDA Guidance for CAM Products and Regulation ** Was: FDA MESSING AROUND AGAIN?

April 12, 2007

Hey Graham,

We might have something to worry about .. odds are that we have a lot

of things to worry about because of what Martin and Chris and others

have written .. that this global harmonization crap is trying to bleed

over from the Socialist mentality of Europe into the USA.

And I have an opinion on the below .. some folks on this list will

disagree with me because some think Dr. Rima E. Laibow is a hard

charging Ralph Nader type person who is fighting for American rights.

I think she is an opportunist who has made a nice nest for herself and

her husband so she continues to " Cry Wolf " in order to stay employed.

> Have any of you heard about this? I don't know how alarmed to be.

That is their intent .. to get folks alarmed and if you go to their

site there is a place for donations.

> The warning web page is

>

http://www.democracyinaction.org/healthfreedomusa/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=7185\

& t=

>

> The FDA side of things is attached in PDF.

>

> This is the message I received: (in purple)

> There is a crisis in health freedom. On April 30, 2007 the FDA will

> close the public comment period on a " Guidance " which will classify

> every alternative practice as medicine so that only licensed

> physicians can carry out the procedure AND vitamins, minerals,

> herbs, etc., will suddenly become " untested drugs " which will be

> forbidden.

This Codex Alimentarius Commission has been around since 1962 and it

has never been my impression that their intent is to " classify EVERY

alternative practice " as medicine.

If they close the public comment period on 30 April 07 that will not

be unusual .. they can't keep it open forever .. but I am not aware

that the intent was to do what is claimed in the paragraph above.

This tale of trying to control vitamins, etc., has also been around

for a long time. It has been discussed on the News Groups, the Urban

Legend sites, etc.

I think they are stretching the truth .. uh .. I mean .. lying!

> Bad? Real Bad! But public outcry can stop this assault on your

> health and your freedom.

So .. y'all send some money to my organization so I can continue to

write letters for the next 20 years .. or at least until I get tired

of working and can retire a multi-millionaire. ;-)

> Spread the word! Tell everyone in your Circle of Influence,

> professionals, alternative practitioners, nutrient and herb

> companies, everyone! Let them know how important their participation

> is to make sure the FDA backs off from this repressive course.

If public outcry is what it takes to stop it then it is too late

because there will be none after 30 April 07 .. according to the doctor.

> Please share this link with them and urge them to take action:

> http://tinyurl.com/2u7ghc

And its here that I think the real gist of this is .. I think that the

doctor has found a career for herself and her husband .. that of being

a non profit lobbyist and requesting donations from the public. And I

think they are stretching the imagination (hollering wolf?) to paint a

picture of doom and gloom because it will increase their take.

These non profits are authorized to spend the lion's share of the

money they take in on administrative matters, salaries, etc. That is,

get a nice office suite, nice car, pay yourselves a nice salary, etc.

The remaining funds must be used for advertisements or some overt

effort to do what they claim they exist to do .. like lobbying ..

which means writing letters .. and sometimes talking .. things most

folks do when they are administrative types.

Back in 2006, Dr. Liabow was making a lot of noise on the I-Net that

she was lobbying to alter Codex, to Support the WHO Global Strategy to

End World Hunger, and to Promote World Health. These are admirable

goals for sure .. goals that will always ensure that there is another

battle to be fought .. and to keep one in the position they have

created for them self.

Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Stubblebine .. you will see

retired General Albert Stubblebine (president of the HealthFreedom

organization and husband of this Dr. Liabow .. is not well thought of.

Another Health Freedom Activist .. Dr. Matthias Rath, probably also a

con artist, who runs the Rath Foundation .. claims that Stubblebine is

a con artist .. might be that these are just two con artists who are

butting heads .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthias_Rath ..

More on Stubblebine here .. I didn't personally know him when he was

in the military but he appears to be a Gary Young type character.

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/THE_FOUNDATION/Events/codex-moderngeneral.htm\

l

Stubblebine is big into the area of Psychic Mind Control.

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/people1.html .. he is listed

toward the bottom of the page.

And here .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project

" Major General Albert Stubblebine: A key sponsor of the research

internally at Fort Meade. He was convinced of the reality of a wide

variety of psychic phenomena, leading him to even attempt to walk

through walls. In the early 1980s he was responsible for Army

Intelligence, during which time the remote viewing project in the army

began. Some commentators have confused Project Jedi run by Special

Forces primarily out of Fort Bragg with Stargate. In fact General

Stubblebine was poorly received when he visited Fort Bragg, and did

not participate nor was he aware of the goat lab and other psychic

experiments being conducted there (Ronson). " He is a nut case.

One person who has worked closely with him is retired Colonel John

Alexander .. ex-Special Forces .. we served together in Hawaii and

also attended the Masters Program at Pepperdine University together -

same class of 30 folks. John is very intelligent, but also somewhat

of a nut case, I think.

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/people.html#alexander

Both John and Stubblebine believe that the government is covering up

the existence of UFOs and that no planes could bring down the Twin

Towers. They are both very wealthy men now .. and all of them, to

include John's wife, Victoria, appear to be a little weird. She is a

very beautiful lady and some claim that she dresses and acts like a

vampire. It is said that she lives on a less than 500 calories daily

diet mostly consisting of egg whites. I reckon one of the secrets to

becoming wealthy is to be eccentric. ;-)

This Dr. Liabow is also a controversial character ..

http://www.talkaboutparenting.commisc.kids.pregnancy/messages/791390.html

My opinion is that Stubblebine and Dr. Liabow. along with thousands of

other non-profit organizers and activists .. are milking the problems

they are denouncing for all its worth .. they have found a Golden

Goose and as long as there are issues to be challenged .. they will

continue to collect the Golden Eggs.

I am ready to be proven wrong if anyone has info to the contrary. But

the fact that someone likes Liabow is not proof to the contrary ..

lots of folks like Gary Young.

> Yours in health and freedom,

>

> Rima E. Laibow, MD

> Medical Director

> Natural Solutions Foundation

> www.HealthFreedomUSA.org

That's my take and I'm probably gonna stick to it. If it walks like a

duck and sounds like a duck and swims like a duck .. odds are pretty

dang good that its a duck.

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

April 13, 2007

And here .. HYPERLINK

" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project " http://en.wikipedia-.org/wiki

/-Stargate_-Project

" Major General Albert Stubblebine: A key sponsor of the research

internally at Fort Meade. He was convinced of the reality of a wide

variety of psychic phenomena, leading him to even attempt to walk

through walls.

[Dave:] Supposedly there have been people who could do this, and from what

I understand it’s theoretically possible. But I just love the visuals here!

Bump! Ow! Bump! Ow!

Both John and Stubblebine believe that the government is covering up

the existence of UFOs and that no planes could bring down the Twin

Towers.

[Dave:] I dunno about the UFO coverup, but as for the other...the evidence

is overwhelming.

I reckon one of the secrets to

becoming wealthy is to be eccentric. ;-)

[Dave:] So where’s my million?

--

Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.3.0/758 - Release 4/12/2007

11:52 AM

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Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.3.0/758 - Release 4/12/2007

11:52 AM

April 13, 2007

Both John and Stubblebine believe that the government is covering up the

existence of UFOs and that no planes could bring down the Twin Towers.

[Dave:] I dunno about the UFO coverup, but as for the other...the evidence

is overwhelming.

=======I didn't read the article. Did they attempt to explain the film the

entire globe has seen showing an airplane fly into the tower?

Susan H.

April 13, 2007

=======I didn't read the article. Did they attempt to explain the film the

entire globe has seen showing an airplane fly into the tower?

[Dave:] The issue isn’t whether a plane hit the tower. The issue is how a

plane could collapse a huge building into its own footprint. There are two

possibilities: a. it couldn’t. b. the laws of physics are false.

--

Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.3.0/758 - Release 4/12/2007

11:52 AM

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Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.3.0/758 - Release 4/12/2007

11:52 AM

April 13, 2007

Let's remember that Wikipedia can be changed by anyone, so it is not

necessarily always accurate nor a reference that I would use to clearly

assert facts. I agree with Dave that there is overwhelming evidence of

disinformation released about 9/11 and that the 9/11 Commission Report is

about as accurate as the Warren Report.

Don't want to get into major discussions about that here (and I'm sure Chris

is frowning) . . . We'll do well to get to truthiness re:

Codex/EU/IFRA/etc., which more urgently confronts us now.

And Dave, sorry, your million has been diverted by cyber-psychics!! :-)

Be Well,

Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com

http://www.aromaconnection.org

" Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from

Nigeria

>

> On Behalf Of David Lambert

> Thursday, April 12, 2007 4:09 PM

>

> RE: FDA Guidance for CAM Products

> and Regulation ** Was: FDA MESSING AROUND AGAIN?

>

> And here .. HYPERLINK

> " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project " http://en.wikip

> edia-.org/wiki

> /-Stargate_-Project

> " Major General Albert Stubblebine: A key sponsor of the

> research internally at Fort Meade. He was convinced of the

> reality of a wide variety of psychic phenomena, leading him

> to even attempt to walk through walls.

>

> [Dave:] Supposedly there have been people who could do this,

> and from what I understand it's theoretically possible. But

> I just love the visuals here!

> Bump! Ow! Bump! Ow!

>

> Both John and Stubblebine believe that the government is

> covering up the existence of UFOs and that no planes could

> bring down the Twin Towers.

>

> [Dave:] I dunno about the UFO coverup, but as for the

> other...the evidence is overwhelming.

>

> I reckon one of the secrets to

> becoming wealthy is to be eccentric. ;-)

>

> [Dave:] So where's my million?

April 13, 2007

Most would be aware now that the trade towers were ordered for demolition,

deemed unsafe and the buildings were to be emptied and dismantling begun by

June 2007.

The cost of the scaffolding around each building was going to cost more than

the cost of construction of the buildings and the insurance value of the

buildings.

They could not be imploded due to locality and size and were to be

dismantled brick by brick.

Days before the towers fell (or weeks) the owner took out a bumped up

insurance policy

General staff were sacked and given marching orders ten days leading up tot

he event.

Many incidents including the gold trucks found loaded and in the escape

tunnel some distance away, not a possibility if the buildings had collapsed

in he circumstances shown as the loading would have taken many hours.

Interesting no.

I don't know what to think or believe but must be careful as a new law just

passed in Aus today of zero tolerance toward terrorism including reading

anything that condones such action, this will put us in a sticky place.

LOL

-

" David Lambert " <dlmbrt

Friday, April 13, 2007 9:42 AM

RE: FDA Guidance for CAM Products and Regulation

** Was: FDA MESSING AROUND AGAIN?

=======I didn't read the article. Did they attempt to explain the film the

entire globe has seen showing an airplane fly into the tower?

[Dave:] The issue isn't whether a plane hit the tower. The issue is how a

plane could collapse a huge building into its own footprint. There are two

possibilities: a. it couldn't. b. the laws of physics are false.

April 13, 2007

I have heard this alert from many places,

and not all of them are asking for money.

I lost the link to the PDF file by the FDA.

Does someone have it handy?

Ien in the Kootenays

http://freegreenliving.com

April 14, 2007

Hi Ien.

Here's the link to the FDA comments page

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/oc/dockets/comments/COMMENTSMain.CFM?E

C_DOCUMENT_ID=1451 & SUBTYP=CONTINUE & CID= & AGENCY=FDA

This will probably be easier http://tinyurl.com/2lneea

Here are my comments: Feel free to extrapolate those you want to use.

Re: Docket No. 2006D-0480 The FDA is getting out of control and is

partnering with the mainstream allopathic and pharmaceutical industries to

help them control all aspects of human wellness. Simply using the

terminology " complementary " and " alternative " has relegated ancient medical

systems such as Ayurveda and TCM and accredited modalities such as

homeopathy, chiropractic, massage and nutrition to be subordinate to

allopathic medicine. This is wrong. The facts are that allopathic medicine

and prescription drugs are causing more health problems and deaths than any

of the other so-called alternative disciplines combined. Individuals should

have the right to choose, study and practice other forms of healing within

different paradigms. They should be empowered to actively seek to keep well,

not be dependent upon a 'disease' system. We are not fooled by these tactics

coming down from EC/Codex harmonization and we are well aware of the

conflicts of interest that exist with the staff at the FDA with regard to

their financial relationships with the pharmaceutical companies. The FDA

should be completely investigated and reorganized to protect the rights and

health of citizens, not promote pharmaceutical drugs. Herbs and juices are

foods. Nutrition is an academic discipline already established that should

not be confused with dispensing drugs. Massage therapy is also an

established wellness practice, licensed in most states. Their tools should

not be classified as 'medical' devices. No reports of major adverse

reactions or death have been made against massage therapists or

nutritionists. The pharmaceutical industry and allopathic medical industry

are attempting to impose a 'disease' mindset on all Americans, ignoring the

positive results that come from a proactive endeavor to keep healthy with

diet, exercise, massage, acupuncture, and herbal supplements. Shame on them.

The pharmaceutical companies and medical doctors are putting profit above

the health of the citizens of the U.S. and continue to deceive the American

people with their advertising. They should be banned from publicly

advertising as they were in the past. Doctors rely too heavily on

prescription drugs that they know little about and people are simply

choosing to be well without this primary reliance on the medical

establishment. Our government should be applauding people's initiative to

take charge of their own well being, it will cost less and people will be

healthier. Isn't this what the FDA should be championing? Allopathic

medicine has its place; it should not attempt to control our entire lives.

The FDA should be insuring that food (including animal food) is safe and is

spending too much time carrying water for the pharmaceutical industry. NO

RESTRICTIONS ON FOOD, HERBS, JUICES AND ALL FORMS OF TREATMENT/ACTIVITIES

FOR WELLNESS. WE ARE QUITE CAPABLE OF PROTECTING OURSELVES. STOP THIS

NONSENSE ONCE AND FOR ALL. CLEAN UP THE FDA AND GET IT OUT OF THE HANDS OF

THE PHARMACEUTICAL CONGLOMERATES.

Be Well,

Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com

http://www.aromaconnection.org

" Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from

Nigeria

On Behalf Of Ieneke van Houten

Friday, April 13, 2007 11:32 AM

Re: FDA Guidance for CAM Products and

Regulation ** Was: FDA MESSING AROUND AGAIN?

I have heard this alert from many places,

and not all of them are asking for money.

I lost the link to the PDF file by the FDA.

Does someone have it handy?

Ien in the Kootenays

http://freegreenliving.com <http://freegreenliving.com>

April 14, 2007

Ooops, put wrong tinyurl in last post, this one is correct.

Hi Ien.

Here's the link to the FDA comments page

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/oc/dockets/comments/COMMENTSMain.CFM?E

C_DOCUMENT_ID=1451 & SUBTYP=CONTINUE & CID= & AGENCY=FDA

This will probably be easier http://tinyurl.com/37xhyo