OT: Professor: Shooter Had Real 'Mean Streak'

[Guest guest]

Professor: Shooter Had Real 'Mean Streak'

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/18/vtech.shooting/index.html

 

POSTED: 1405 GMT (2205 HKT), April 18, 2007

Story Highlights

• NEW: Cho's behavior, poetry so intimidating, teacher says she had him

removed

• Former English department chair pulled Cho Seung-Hui out of class

• Police stand by decision not to lock down campus after first shootings

• Former roommates say Cho Seung-Hui stalked women, spoke of suicide

 

 

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- As tales of Cho Seung-Hui's worrisome

behavior continued to surface Wednesday, a renowned poet and author

who taught the 23-year-old suspected gunman called the notion that he

was troubled " crap " and said he was downright " mean. "

 

Nikki Giovanni was in San Francisco, California, getting ready to fly

home to Blacksburg when she heard the news Monday that 32 students

were killed in separate shooting incidents on the Virginia Tech campus.

 

" I knew when it happened that that's probably who it was, " Giovanni

said, referring to her former pupil. " I would have been shocked if it

wasn't. "

 

Though Giovanni, another professor, Cho's former roommates and a

classmate all recall Cho behaving in a disturbing manner -- and

authorities confirm he was investigated after being accused of

stalking a woman -- there was nothing criminal about his demeanor.

 

(Classmates called Cho " question mark kid " )

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/cho.profile/index.html

 

In fact, university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said his department

had no clue that Cho posed a threat to anyone.

 

" We're exploring all those things right now as we do our investigation

to try and determine why and what triggers the incident. But we

weren't aware of that before, " Flinchum said.

 

The university and its police have been the target of criticism from

students who felt they weren't adequately warned about Cho -- even

after two people were killed in a dormitory early Monday morning.

 

Though police have linked a gun used in Norris Hall -- where 31

people, including Cho, died -- they have yet to say he is officially

accused of the first shootings.

 

The university has defended its response to the first shooting, which

police were reportedly still investigating when gunshots erupted in

Norris Hall -- more than two hours after police were called to the dorm.

 

Flinchum said Wednesday that details gleaned from the investigation at

the West Ambler Johnston dorm led to a decision among university

officials and police that the campus did not need to be locked down.

 

" There is a lot of details we were providing to the administration and

a decision was made based on that information, " the chief said.

 

University President Charles Steger has said police believed the

incident was " a domestic fight, perhaps a murder-suicide " that was

contained to one dorm room.

 

Police cordoned off the 895-student dorm and all residents were told

about the shooting as police looked for witnesses, Steger said.

 

" I don't think anyone could have predicted that another event was

going to take place two hours later, " Steger said.

 

'Something mean about this boy'

 

Though there was nothing criminal about Cho's behavior -- he easily

passed a background check, according to the store owner who sold him

one of the guns -- his actions did concern some students and faculty

members.

 

Cho's poetry was so intimidating -- and his behavior so menacing --

that Giovanni had him removed from her class in the fall of 2005, she

said. Giovanni said the final straw came when two of her students quit

attending her poetry sessions because of Cho.

 

" I was trying to find out, what am I doing wrong here? " Giovanni

recalled thinking, but the students came to her during her office

hours and explained, " He's taking photographs of us. We don't know

what he's doing. "

 

Giovanni went to the department's then-chairwoman, Lucinda Roy, and

told her she wanted Cho out of her class, and Roy obliged.

 

" I was willing to resign before I was going to continue with him, "

Giovanni said. " There was something mean about this boy. "

 

Giovanni said she's taught her share of oddballs in the past, but

there was something malicious about Cho's behavior.

 

" I know we're talking about a troubled youngster and crap like that,

but troubled youngsters get drunk and jump off buildings; troubled

youngsters drink and drive, " she said. " I've taught troubled

youngsters. I've taught crazy people. It was the meanness that

bothered me. It was a really, mean streak. "

 

Giovanni's account came Wednesday as Roy and Cho's former roommates

shared stories about the resident alien from South Korea now accused

of exacting the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

 

Authorities also confirmed that Cho was investigated last year for

stalking a woman in person and by e-mail.

 

Roy, who taught Cho one-on-one after removing him from Giovanni's

class, recalled Cho exhibiting a palpable anger and secretly taking

photographs of other students while holding the camera under his desk.

 

His writings were so disturbing, she said, that she went to the police

and university administrators for help.

 

" The threats seemed to be underneath the surface, " she said. " They

were not explicit and that was the difficulty the police had. "

 

Ian McFarlane, who had class with Cho, said two plays written by Cho

were so " twisted " that McFarlane and other students openly pondered

" whether he could be a school shooter. "

 

(Read MacFarlane's blog and the two playsexternal link)

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

 

Cho's roommates, who asked to be identified only as Andy and John, had

similar accounts. Andy recalled police coming to the dormitory to

investigate Cho's involvement with a female students and when Andy

told police that Cho had spoken of suicide, " they took him away to the

counseling center for a night or two. "

 

In retrospect, Cho had exhibited " big warning signs, " Andy said. But

he was so quiet, the roommate said, " he was just like a shadow. "

 

(Watch Cho's roommates describe his " crazy " behavior Video)

This is not a link .. its a pop up you can get to from the main link.

 

Authorities are still investigating whether Cho had any accomplices in

planning or executing Monday's rampage, Flaherty said.

 

Cho, who moved to the United States at age 8, lived at the

university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said.

 

" He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about

him, " said Larry Hincker, associate vice president for university

relations.

 

© 2007 Cable News Network.

[Guest guest]

" I knew when it happened that that's probably who it was, " Giovanni

said, referring to her former pupil. " I would have been shocked if it

wasn't. " ¶

 

[Dave:] Such things leave us shocked and bewildered. It really hurts to

know our society produces these guys more than any other. Such evil doesn’t

come up out of a vacuum. It seems the guy sent plenty of warning signals,

and there were probably many opportunities for SOMEONE to intervene.

Actually, they did: he was sent to an evaluation facility for a couple of

days last year. Could he have been helped? We’ll never know, but he

certainly could have been stopped, not that there’s any one person to point

a finger at. All along, the people who could have taken this guy out of

circulation at least temporarily, maybe could have helped him, signed off on

him instead. Some of them are in for many sleepless nights; some don’t

really care as long as their behinds are covered; and some are too stupid

anyway, to realize the role they could have played. So where does it all

leave us, other than more lifeworn than we were? Some new laws will no

doubt be passed, we’ll all have to endure a little closer scrutiny than

before (maybe we’ll have to take off our shoes and throw away our shampoo

before visiting our kids at college, too); there will be new restrictions on

defending ourselves, and we won’t be any safer than we were before. The

truth is, we are already safer than we have been in the past. Most crime

statistics have been trending downward for decades, at least until the last

few years. The vast influx of undocumented persons, and the increasing

desperation of working people, have been nudging the numbers the other way.

But if you watch the news and shows like NCIS and Criminal Minds, you may

think we live in a jungle, with a predator behind every, um, shrub. Folks,

it ain’t so.

 

I personally think that many more sociopaths are nurtured and mentored than

are born, but a few are just bad seed. Names like Nero and Mugabe come to

mind among others, but most, I think, remain unknown. By the way, two of

the shooter’s plays are online, and I read one. It was mercifully short.

Yes, it was twisted and disturbing, but there was something that was much

more striking about it. It was crap. Totally apart from the fact that it

spoke profoundly though inadvertently of arrested development, it was just

bad. It was not good writing for an eighth grader, let alone a university

student. This guy was an English major? What was he doing within miles of

a university in the first place? If what I read is typical of what this guy

(is it Cho?) wrote, how did this guy graduate high school? Sure it could

have been a hoax, but I don’t think it was, and if I find out it was I will

say so. Something like this happens and we focus on the snapshot – and we

forget the big picture. Something really bad is going on in our culture,

and we need to get our groove back, as that guy from Butch’s post put it.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

This tragedy is becoming all too familiar in modern America . . . My first

question is, was he on Prozac? The rate of homicidal/suicidal tendencies in

young people on psychoactive prescription drugs is astounding, and one that

we don't see covered as it should be in the evening news. Why should it be;

news shows are funded by pharma-advertising. Look what the pressure from

advertisers did to Don Imums . . . Are we to believe it doesn't work the

other way, when the news may harm the advertisers?

 

I hope everyone has seen the new HBO special, " addiction " airing this month.

The last segment, where a prominent prosecutor in Maine stands before

insurance industry execs during testimony at the state legislature, and

warns that they are dangerously close to being indicted for involuntary

manslaughter is quite provocative, indeed. Seems 'managed care' insurance

companies have systematically cut off treatment for addiction treatment, far

more than any other disease or health problem, even when coverage is in the

policy. With addiction now an epidemic all over the country (Montana

calling for a state of emergency), this makes absolutely no sense . . .

Just " cents " , if you get my drift. :-(

 

Welcome home, Butch, it's certainly not the same place you left those years

ago.

 

Be Well,

Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com

http://www.aromaconnection.org

" Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from

Nigeria

[Guest guest]

The rate of homicidal/suicidal tendencies in

young people on psychoactive prescription drugs is astounding, and one that

we don't see covered as it should be in the evening news. Why should it be;

news shows are funded by pharma-advertising. Look what the pressure from

advertisers did to Don Imums . . . Are we to believe it doesn't work the

other way, when the news may harm the advertisers?

 

[Dave:] Ya think? The early reports I read stated he had been on Prozac,

but I haven’t seen it confirmed.

 

Welcome home, Butch, it's certainly not the same place you left those years

ago.

 

[Dave:] Roger that.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I am not speaking of anyone individually here, so please do not take this that

way... This is meant to be a wakeup call for ALL of us.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

Actually, I don't think that " society produces these guys more than any other; "

it's just that this kind of action is 'well-advertised' by our news (and

tabloid) media much more than the 'good' kind of news is.

 

When was the last time you heard (or read) of a person doing an anonymous 'act

of kindness' for another person (or persons)? Do you take it upon yourself to do

a random act of kindness for anyone? How about the widow next door (or down the

street, or on the next block)...have you offered to weed or mow the lawn or wash

her car? Or take her to the grocery? Then there's the kid across the street that

drives you nuts because his mom works two jobs and the kid is left to fend for

himself and is out skateboarding and not doing his homework because mom doesn't

realize what's going on. How about inviting him (or her) to dinner and offer to

help with homework? This is a valuable lesson to our children to see this kind

of activity. Even if we don't have children, the children of the neighborhood

see adults doing this, and they will remember and do it themselves...

 

Pay it forward - for everybody.

 

I'll get off the soapbox now....

 

Barb

 

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a

pretty well-preserved body. Rather to skid in broadside -- thoroughly used up,

totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... " Wow...What a ride!!!! "

 

 

[Guest guest]

Pay it forward - for everybody.

 

[Dave:] Darn good point, Barb! I’ve read statistics that say that serial

and mass-killers are a mostly American phenom. I also know statistics can

be made to say whatever you want. What I really think is that there are

some really nasty big fish lurking down in the gene pool, always have been.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Barb,

 

Thanks for a heart-felt and brilliant post.

 

I worry about a " problem-reaction-solution "

scenario regarding mental health screening.

 

We want to prevent this sort of tragedy, so

we'll get permission for invasive mental health

screening programs, which will result in more

people on anti-depressants, and so on.

 

Meanwhile, can we all share a few thoughts

of compassion for the poor parents of this boy Cho?

It sounds like they were hard-working decent people.

They have lost their son too. But instead of sympathy

they must cope with an extra burden of shame

and prying into their lives.

 

Ien in the Kootenays

http://freegreenliving.com