Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 The lumber/paper industry since before 1969 has done an excellent job of replanting and maintaining their forests -- in fact, we have more trees now than before. ¶ [Dave:] True...but misleading. What the lumber companies do is replant fast-growing, cheap timber trees like white pine. They do nothing to re-establish the diverse community with its many niche ecosystems that existed before. Tree plantations are sterile compared to real forests. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.10/774 - Release 4/23/2007 5:26 PM Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.10/774 - Release 4/23/2007 5:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Dear Dede, First of all, the world would be a greener place with more people like you in it. I hear your frustration with city-dwelling paper pushers from somewhere else telling you how to live, when you have pretty much been doing the green thing all along. Any environmental movement has to start with respect for and co-operation with the people who live in a place. However....you write: <The lumber/paper industry since before 1969 has done an excellent job of replanting and maintaining their forests -- in fact, we have more trees now than before> We may have more trees, yes. And they will be cut down as soon as they reach a certain age. What was cut down and what is replacing it are 2 totally different things. A tree plantation is not a forest. Man is shortening the natural rotation of the forest, and at each harvesting cycle the eco-system as a whole is impoverished. The real damage from modern industrial forestry may not be visible for centuries. If each rotation is a hundred years long, and at every turn we leave the system 10% poorer, you get the picture. The forestry industry is indeed improving, but only because there has been a lot of hue and cry, and because the easily accessible old- growth timber is largely gone. If we are now " farming " the forest, what model of farming are we looking at? So far, it looks like big agri-business, forestry style. We are living in interesting times. Ien in the Kootenays, forestry country http://freegreenliving.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 On Behalf Of edgetexlady Tuesday, April 24, 2007 11:36 AM Drawing the Line Regarding deforestation -- at least in the U.S. that's not a problem. The lumber/paper industry since before 1969 has done an excellent job of replanting and maintaining their forests -- in fact, we have more trees now than before. (Part of my honeymoon in 1969 was going to Oregon and seeing various lumber mills and a plywood mill in operation. They were well ahead of themselves in terms of keeping forests healthy and productive and keeping air pollution at a minumum. So anything you hear about this industry in the U.S. doing otherwise is pure hocum.) Dede, I was going to let this pass, don't really want to get in a p__g match with anyone, but you don't have your facts correct. You might not remember that I live in WA state and know the PNW forests up close and personal. It is true that deforestation has been addressed in the past and the lumber/paper industry mandated to conserve/replant and manage sustainability. Not that the companies replanted the appropriate trees . . . But there was intent. That was then. Not all forests have been reforested and fully recovered, however, and clear cutting is again rampant under the Bush Administration's opening of National Parks and Forests for logging interests. The current culprit is not only the lumber/paper companies. The emerging culprit for deforestation in the US is the rapid population growth and developers creating housing, business parks, shopping malls, etc. You may be surprised by this report http://wdfw.wa.gov/do/newreal/release.php?id=apr1800a published in 2000. Little has been done since then to mitigate the adverse effects and much has been given the developers in terms of leeway to bend the environmental laws. Our small rural neighborhood has been fighting a development that would double the population on our dead-end road, create 300 more car trips a day on a two lane county road and drive out what little deer, bear, coyotes and wildlife we have left . . . and completely bulldoze a salmon spawning creek. This group battle has cost our small nonprofit over $35,000 in legal fees (we have been lucky to get a lot of pro-bono work, in addition) and lots of plant sales and standing in the cold through the night providing coffee at freeway rest stops for donations to keep up the battle. It's been going on for 3 years and we've held them at bay thus far. We aren't against a small, manageable development that keeps the legal and environmental intent of current zoning. I believe, however, that the developers in this case represent the attitude of the majority of developers - get all the money you can for your investment - above any and all other considerations. But, that's the American way, yes? If so, I believe we need to adjust the 'American Way'. The point I was trying to make was that we have become a society of consumptive excesses that not only deprive third world countries now, but will deprive our own grandchildren in the future if we continue. The Easter Island analogy is akin today to Hummers, 6,000 sq. ft. houses and the prevailing attitude that 'shopping' is therapy. Our society (but not, perhaps, all the individuals that comprise it, present company accepted) promotes consumerism above safety (think children-cell phones), excessive pharma use (side effects/death), fast food (obesity and diabetes) and most considerations are decided by monetary factors, not intrinsic ones as they perhaps should be. The word " exponential " is applied to every business and personal endeavor. Take as much as you can for yourself. We must realize that there is a tipping point and we will run out of things at the rate/mentality we are going. Could it be that capitalism is actually a failed experiment? Only posing the question, haven't found a feasible alternative. But there are those minds much better equipped to do so who are exploring this. National Geographic has a nice little green guide http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/119/ghpaper which (gulp) reports that 3.8 million acres are still clear-cut annually in the US. BTW, they have a source for recycled toilet paper, too. :-) Butch, how I hope fishing back at home is up to your expectations. In WA, commercial fisherman are rapidly becoming extinct and there is very little left over for the recreationist. Our lake, even though it is restocked annually gives up fewer and fewer fish every year. The (primarily Native American) effort to restore the wild salmon in the rivers is just beginning to fruition, but with a continued human population growth, deforestation is bound to impact habitats yet again. Y'all may disdain the people trying to bring these issues to the public eye. And, Dede, again you have your facts wrong regarding Al Gore's energy consumption. If you Google " Al Gore's Personal Energy Consumption " , you will get hundreds of websites parroting the Tennessee Center for Policy Research's wild inaccurate accusations about Al Gore's household expenditures and energy use. We all know what this organization is and how they foment inaccuracies to make the Republicans look better than they actually are and the Democrats look worse than they are. And we all know about the broadcasting pipeline to get these talking points all over the map. If you look beyond those websites, you will find these lies exposed for what they are. The rebuttal to discount this talking point is reported and fact-checked here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore_controversies among other places, and including on the Senate floor during Gore's testimony. I'm probably not the only one who can spot a Republican talking point a mile away by this time - they've certainly been flying fast and furious for the past 6 years. . . They're actually becoming laughable - just watch John Stewart (where most young Americans get their news - a recent factoid - most who watch John Stewart know more about current events and politics than those who get their news from FOX, other cable news channels and networks). Now, I'm all worked up and need to vent . . . . Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly are dinosaurs!!!! There, I've done it. Feels good. :-) Be Well, Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com http://www.aromaconnection.org " Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from Nigeria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Now, I'm all worked up and need to vent . . . . Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly are dinosaurs!!!-! There, I've done it. Feels good. :-) [Dave:] Aw, the dinosaurs don’t deserve that! Way to go Marcia, you said it all. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.10/774 - Release 4/23/2007 5:26 PM Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.10/774 - Release 4/23/2007 5:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Aren't they both in rehab? Karen > [Original Message] > David Lambert <dlmbrt > > 4/24/2007 10:41:21 PM > RE: Drawing the Line > > Now, I'm all worked up and need to vent . . . . Rush Limbaugh and Bill > O'Reilly are dinosaurs!!!-! There, I've done it. Feels good. :-) > > > > [Dave:] Aw, the dinosaurs don’t deserve that! Way to go Marcia, you said > it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Marcia- Residing here in Western WA as well, I see exactly what you see. I am shocked at the number of our hills/mountain sides that are bare and will never be the rich eco-systems they used to be. We cannot keep up with good ole Weyerhaeuser (don't get me started at how they drive the small lumber companies out of business so they have the monopoly!) I agree, Mother Earth cannot keep up anymore. History shows time and time again that civilizations like ours (excessive) do not last long compared to others who respect their environments. It is proven. There are too many people, too much industry and no more balance. You were spot on! Nikki www.gabrielsaunt.com On Apr 24, 2007, at 5:44 PM, Marcia Elston wrote: > he current culprit is not only the lumber/paper companies. The > emerging culprit for deforestation in the US is the rapid > population growth > and developers creating housing, business parks, shopping malls, > etc. You > may be surprised by this report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Lucky for you there are no more dinosaurs - they'd be out to get you for saying that about them !! Paula ....... in Michigan www.farmfreshsoapsandcandles.com farmfreshsoapsandcandles > Now, I'm all worked up and need to vent . . . . Rush Limbaugh and Bill > O'Reilly are dinosaurs!!!-! There, I've done it. Feels good. :-) > > > > [Dave:] Aw, the dinosaurs don’t deserve that! Way to go Marcia, you said > it all. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2007 Report Share Posted April 27, 2007 Being an Aussie and not knowing a lot of the US news presenters I have viewed Bill Oreilly. Sometimes I thought this was a bloke who was on the ball but I soon realized he wouldn't even know what a ball looked like,. Last time I ever watched him he was doing his Barbara Streisand hate trick, with her name being thrown in all through the hour anywhere he could belittle her implicating when is involved in all the crime in the world. He even started a rant that had no meaning, it was like a news item but senseless, just a piece to throw about Barbs name and add insults. Isn't that a hate crime? LOL - <ksellars Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:27 PM RE: Drawing the Line > Aren't they both in rehab? > > Karen > > >> [Original Message] >> David Lambert <dlmbrt >> >> 4/24/2007 10:41:21 PM >> RE: Drawing the Line >> >> Now, I'm all worked up and need to vent . . . . Rush Limbaugh and Bill >> O'Reilly are dinosaurs!!!-! There, I've done it. Feels good. :-) >> >> >> >> [Dave:] Aw, the dinosaurs don't deserve that! Way to go Marcia, you >> said >> it all. > > > The information contained in these e-mails is not a substitute > for diagnosis and treatment by a qualified, licensed professional. > > > Step By Step Instructions For Making Herbal Labna Cheese! So easy, SO > yummy! > http://www.aromaticsage.com/cz.htm > > > To adjust your group settings (i.e. go no mail) see the following link: > /join > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.