OT: Trouble in Turkey - Trouble in the World

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurie,

 

Today there were over 200,000 Turks rallying in Izmir in protest of

the present Moslem government.

 

> Hi Butch,

>

> Even here in the US we are starting to hear the rattling of sabers in

> some quarters. We have had a number of Officers leave the service and

> start to speak out about what has been going on behind closed doors.

 

That is what officers should do when they feel they can no longer be

loyal to the policies of the Commander in Chief .. vote with their

feet. I would not expect an officer to even entertain the thought of

taking over the government in the USA .. that's not been discussed

since the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

 

> Even some of the Generals that are still in service are starting to

> make their voices heard. And both the major political parties are

> showing signs of a division in their ranks.

 

I guess we should not be surprised at Division in the ranks of the

political parties prior to a national election .. its all about issues

now .. not where the party stands but where constituents stand .. and

those who are hoping to get their party's nomination for president

have an even tougher game to play. ;-)

 

As for the Active Duty Generals .. I hope (and believe) that I will

not hear one of them being disloyal to the CINC .. they should speak

their mind .. yes men they are not paid to be .. but in private .. its

not their right to speak against their boss in public. Whether others

buy this or not they must buy it because they took an oath to do so.

 

> Now you will not hear about it on the mainstream media evening

> news, but those of us that depend on alternate sources for real news

> have been aware of it for some time.

 

Yes ma'am .. I pick it up on some of the On Line European newspapers I

read. I think a lot of it is embellished or the reporter interprets

meaning as they wish to interpret. ;-)

 

> There is a growing movement here in the States that is waking up to

> what is really going on in our government. And quite frankly we're not

> going to take it for much longer. I think the establishment is going

> to find it much harder than they think to get their pick pet into

> office in 2008. This election is going to get nasty real soon.

 

I expect you are right .. and from what I see to date .. we don't have

a lot of good choices. I think it'll be another case of picking the

one that is not as bad as the others and hoping for the best. ;-)

 

> You are choosing a great time to come home Butch. It could get real

> interesting in the next 18 months.

 

Yes ma'am .. I agree and I think it will get nasty politically in the

USA and we will continue to have " attempts " against Americans but the

intel community has been doing a good job of heading them off. Might

get bloody nasty in some countries .. to include European countries.

 

Nicolas Sarkozy was vilified by his enemies as " l'Americain " and " le

copain de George W. Bush but he collected more votes than any

politician elected president of France in a long time and took a

number of cities and regions that had voted Left for 60 years. Then

he called for the major democracies to unite against forces that

threaten their security and way of life .. we know who that is .. and

warned Islamists inside and outside France that he would not grant

them benefit of the doubt in the name of past misdeeds that were

supposedly committed by the West. Said he would not allow the Hijab

and Burqa in French official buildings or places of education. Then

he served notice on Iran, Syria and Libya that " his " France will not

be a pushover as it had been under Chirac.

 

All this is asking for trouble from domestic and foreign sources ..

but I think he did right!

 

It looks like there are three strong leaders in Europe now .. France,

England and Germany .. we'll see what the results will be but I expect

to see some major policy changes toward Islamic Fundamentalists.

 

> Laurie Hoppe

 

Y'all have a good one .. and keep smiling. :-) Butch

 

 

>>Absolutely correct. And in the past .. the rattling of sabers would

>>have been enough to get the message across .. but apparently, the AK

>>Party believes that the desires of the European Union will preclude

>>the military from doing what they know is right for Turkey.

>>

>>I know that (1) less than 30% of the Turkish public wants Turkey to

>>join the EU .. (2) the Turkish Military doesn't consider the desires

>>of the EU as being a player in the game .. (3) it is the desire of the

>>Secular elements in Turkey to advance Democracy whereas it appears

>>that it is the desire of the EU Parliament to gain more control over

>>the lives of Europeans .. thus, restricting Democracy. And finally

>>(4) the EU will never accept Turkey in any case (thank the Great

>>Everywhere Spirit).

[Guest guest]

Hi Butch,

 

I don't think any US Military person would entertain the thought of

actually staging a take over, as they know this is not something the

public would stand for. We have a wonderful way of changing of

changing our CinC when it is apparent that we are being led in the

wrong direction, and I don't think anyone wants to change that.

 

When I mentioned the Generals, what we are hearing is that their

knowledge and experience is being discounted and ignored. They are

very distressed at how things are disintegrating in Iraq, and are

worried that their men are being hurt and killed because of decisions

that are being made for political reasons and not sound military

reasons.

 

Our biggest threat right now is the apathy that seems to infect about

1/2 our population. If this election gets nasty enough it might just

shake up the people and get them off of their duffs and into the

polling places.

 

I agree that our choices seem pretty slim, most of them if the truth

be told, scare me half to death. Most of the Republicans keep rattling

on about Iran, and the Democrats all seem to want to precipitously

pull out and keep harping on Global Warming. I have not found one

candidate yet that I could really get behind.

 

There was one guy in the Republican debate that surprised me and made

me sit up and take notice. That is Ron Paul, but he is so different

that I am not sure he would ever have real chance. He could end up

being surprising if he can get enough support behind him. Right now

the mainstream media seems to be making a concerted effort to ignore

him, in the hope probably that he will fade away.

 

We were watching the French elections very carefully and I must we

were a bit surprised at how it turned out. But at least Mr Sarkozy

seems that he will be firm but fair. It will be interesting to see if

he is strong enough to hold together all the factions in his country.

 

Laurie

 

 

 

, " Butch Owen " <butchbsi wrote:

>

> Hi Laurie,

>

> Today there were over 200,000 Turks rallying in Izmir in protest of

> the present Moslem government.

>

> > Hi Butch,

> >

> > Even here in the US we are starting to hear the rattling of sabers in

> > some quarters. We have had a number of Officers leave the service and

> > start to speak out about what has been going on behind closed doors.

>

> That is what officers should do when they feel they can no longer be

> loyal to the policies of the Commander in Chief .. vote with their

> feet. I would not expect an officer to even entertain the thought of

> taking over the government in the USA .. that's not been discussed

> since the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

>

> > Even some of the Generals that are still in service are starting to

> > make their voices heard. And both the major political parties are

> > showing signs of a division in their ranks.

>

> I guess we should not be surprised at Division in the ranks of the

> political parties prior to a national election .. its all about issues

> now .. not where the party stands but where constituents stand .. and

> those who are hoping to get their party's nomination for president

> have an even tougher game to play. ;-)

>

> As for the Active Duty Generals .. I hope (and believe) that I will

> not hear one of them being disloyal to the CINC .. they should speak

> their mind .. yes men they are not paid to be .. but in private .. its

> not their right to speak against their boss in public. Whether others

> buy this or not they must buy it because they took an oath to do so.

>

> > Now you will not hear about it on the mainstream media evening

> > news, but those of us that depend on alternate sources for real news

> > have been aware of it for some time.

>

> Yes ma'am .. I pick it up on some of the On Line European newspapers I

> read. I think a lot of it is embellished or the reporter interprets

> meaning as they wish to interpret. ;-)

>

> > There is a growing movement here in the States that is waking up to

> > what is really going on in our government. And quite frankly we're not

> > going to take it for much longer. I think the establishment is going

> > to find it much harder than they think to get their pick pet into

> > office in 2008. This election is going to get nasty real soon.

>

> I expect you are right .. and from what I see to date .. we don't have

> a lot of good choices. I think it'll be another case of picking the

> one that is not as bad as the others and hoping for the best. ;-)

>

> > You are choosing a great time to come home Butch. It could get real

> > interesting in the next 18 months.

>

> Yes ma'am .. I agree and I think it will get nasty politically in the

> USA and we will continue to have " attempts " against Americans but the

> intel community has been doing a good job of heading them off. Might

> get bloody nasty in some countries .. to include European countries.

>

> Nicolas Sarkozy was vilified by his enemies as " l'Americain " and " le

> copain de George W. Bush but he collected more votes than any

> politician elected president of France in a long time and took a

> number of cities and regions that had voted Left for 60 years. Then

> he called for the major democracies to unite against forces that

> threaten their security and way of life .. we know who that is .. and

> warned Islamists inside and outside France that he would not grant

> them benefit of the doubt in the name of past misdeeds that were

> supposedly committed by the West. Said he would not allow the Hijab

> and Burqa in French official buildings or places of education. Then

> he served notice on Iran, Syria and Libya that " his " France will not

> be a pushover as it had been under Chirac.

>

> All this is asking for trouble from domestic and foreign sources ..

> but I think he did right!

>

> It looks like there are three strong leaders in Europe now .. France,

> England and Germany .. we'll see what the results will be but I expect

> to see some major policy changes toward Islamic Fundamentalists.

>

> > Laurie Hoppe

>

> Y'all have a good one .. and keep smiling. :-) Butch

>

>

> >>Absolutely correct. And in the past .. the rattling of sabers would

> >>have been enough to get the message across .. but apparently, the AK

> >>Party believes that the desires of the European Union will preclude

> >>the military from doing what they know is right for Turkey.

> >>

> >>I know that (1) less than 30% of the Turkish public wants Turkey to

> >>join the EU .. (2) the Turkish Military doesn't consider the desires

> >>of the EU as being a player in the game .. (3) it is the desire of the

> >>Secular elements in Turkey to advance Democracy whereas it appears

> >>that it is the desire of the EU Parliament to gain more control over

> >>the lives of Europeans .. thus, restricting Democracy. And finally

> >>(4) the EU will never accept Turkey in any case (thank the Great

> >>Everywhere Spirit).

>

[Guest guest]

There was one guy in the Republican debate that surprised me and made

me sit up and take notice. That is Ron Paul, but he is so different

that I am not sure he would ever have real chance.

 

[Dave:] Nearly 75% in one poll supported Ron Paul after the debate. Not

one mainstream paper or news service has picked up the story. The fix is

already in motion.

 

 

 

 

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Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release 5/13/2007

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