OT: Sharing Information From One Group With Another Group or Persons

[Guest guest]

Hey Susan,

 

I changed the Subject Line so it would more closely identify the subject

being discussed. Recommend folks consider this when making posts. :-P

 

I'll give my opinion on the below question .. but unfortunately, my opinion

is based on mere logic .. which sometimes is subordinated to formal

application of rules that were made without consideration of the resulting

consequences .. and formally enforced by folks or agencies like who

are either not wise enough or lack the desire to go beyond regurgitation of

those short-sighted rules when dealing in grey areas. Its sorta like the

dilemma cops are faced with on a daily basis .. at what point does a simple

fracas where two friends are shoving each other become an assault with 2

perpetrators and 2 victims? Logic tells us that the courts can't (and

shouldn't) handle all transgressions even if they are (or can be considered

to be) technically crimes.

 

 

> On another group someone asked about manufacturing products in their

> kitchen and selling them. This was talked about here in a recent

> thread. Is it OK to share info from posts here with others? Should

> they be directed to this group or can the info from here be copied to

> answer them?

>

 

Anyone can be directed to this group .. the more the merrier. One of the

many reasons this group has grown so quickly is because of word of mouth.

 

Can we share posts from this group (or any other group) with other groups?

I believe the answer is NO and I support that. Can we share information

contained in a post to this group with folks from other groups? I think the

answer is YES .. or it should be YES .. IF ..

 

1. We don't use the headers from this group .. which identify the Oils &

Herbs Group .. and the writer. prohibits this and I support

in that regard.

 

2. The information is not a direct quote. When I write in reply to a

person on this list I might not be not writing for publication to the world

... if my replies were sent intact to the world they would not reflect the

mood of the group at the time I wrote the reply .. nor my personal

association with the person who asked the question I was replying to.

 

Can one share my posts from this group (or any other group) with other

people .. including personal friends? I believe the answer should be NO ..

because it is not ethical to do this without getting my permission. If I do

give permission I might want to edit my response .. or .. demand that it be

posted intact and without any changes. To violate my desires would also be

unethical.

 

It is not possible for any of us to discuss only information that we were

born with. Any reply we give will be based on information we have gleaned

from either life's experiences, reference publications, blogs, news

articles, formal or informal education, discussions with others .. and other

sources .. to include what we have read in other forums .. including other

News Groups. If we use direct quotes from published sources we should

always reference the source .. i.e., Martin Watt's Safety Manual " Plant

Aromatics " , page humma humma. But to paraphrase or put into one's own

words information that we picked up in a publication or from another source

is almost always acceptable. Like .. in response to a question on another

group about how to deal with bats in the belfry .. one person said that they

had good results using a 12 gauge Remington 870 with a modified 28 inch

barrel and number 8 shot.

 

Does this confuse or clarify my position? ;-)

 

Thanks, Susan

>

 

Welcome you are .. and y'all keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch .. http://www.AV-AT.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Totally clear, Butch. I understand the reasoning behind your thoughts

and agree with you. I didn't know, however, if there were hard and

fast rules as far as were concerned. I'll pass on the

info as I understand it to be. Thanks, as always. Susan

 

 

, " Butch Owen " <butchowen wrote:

>

> Hey Susan,

>

> I changed the Subject Line so it would more closely identify the subject

> being discussed. Recommend folks consider this when making posts.

:-P

>

> I'll give my opinion on the below question .. but unfortunately, my

opinion

> is based on mere logic .. which sometimes is subordinated to formal

> application of rules that were made without consideration of the

resulting

> consequences .. and formally enforced by folks or agencies like

who

> are either not wise enough or lack the desire to go beyond

regurgitation of

> those short-sighted rules when dealing in grey areas. Its sorta

like the

> dilemma cops are faced with on a daily basis .. at what point does a

simple

> fracas where two friends are shoving each other become an assault with 2

> perpetrators and 2 victims? Logic tells us that the courts can't (and

> shouldn't) handle all transgressions even if they are (or can be

considered

> to be) technically crimes.

>

>

> > On another group someone asked about manufacturing products in their

> > kitchen and selling them. This was talked about here in a recent

> > thread. Is it OK to share info from posts here with others? Should

> > they be directed to this group or can the info from here be copied to

> > answer them?

> >

>

> Anyone can be directed to this group .. the more the merrier. One

of the

> many reasons this group has grown so quickly is because of word of

mouth.

>

> Can we share posts from this group (or any other group) with other

groups?

> I believe the answer is NO and I support that. Can we share

information

> contained in a post to this group with folks from other groups? I

think the

> answer is YES .. or it should be YES .. IF ..

>

> 1. We don't use the headers from this group .. which identify the

Oils &

> Herbs Group .. and the writer. prohibits this and I support

 

> in that regard.

>

> 2. The information is not a direct quote. When I write in reply to a

> person on this list I might not be not writing for publication to

the world

> .. if my replies were sent intact to the world they would not

reflect the

> mood of the group at the time I wrote the reply .. nor my personal

> association with the person who asked the question I was replying to.

>

> Can one share my posts from this group (or any other group) with other

> people .. including personal friends? I believe the answer should

be NO ..

> because it is not ethical to do this without getting my permission.

If I do

> give permission I might want to edit my response .. or .. demand

that it be

> posted intact and without any changes. To violate my desires would

also be

> unethical.

>

> It is not possible for any of us to discuss only information that we

were

> born with. Any reply we give will be based on information we have

gleaned

> from either life's experiences, reference publications, blogs, news

> articles, formal or informal education, discussions with others ..

and other

> sources .. to include what we have read in other forums .. including

other

> News Groups. If we use direct quotes from published sources we should

> always reference the source .. i.e., Martin Watt's Safety Manual " Plant

> Aromatics " , page humma humma. But to paraphrase or put into one's own

> words information that we picked up in a publication or from another

source

> is almost always acceptable. Like .. in response to a question on

another

> group about how to deal with bats in the belfry .. one person said

that they

> had good results using a 12 gauge Remington 870 with a modified 28 inch

> barrel and number 8 shot.

>

> Does this confuse or clarify my position? ;-)

>

> Thanks, Susan

> >

>

> Welcome you are .. and y'all keep smiling. :-)

>

> Butch .. http://www.AV-AT.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Butch, if I might add to your answer . . .

 

Standard copyright laws apply to anything published on the web and the

information is proprietary to the author. This means that the author is

sharing information he/she created with a group, but still owns his/her

words. The words do not belong to the specific mailing list group or

and the author can do with them whatever he/she pleases. Hence, if listmoms

(and dads) have archived posts, they do not belong to the list or and

it is protocol to ask permission to put any special posts in the 'files'

sections of those lists separate from the archived posts themselves.

Permission allows placement in special files, but does not change ownership.

The words still belong to the author and not the list or list

management/software co. . . . And certainly not to a person who forwards or

cuts/pastes portions. We know that folks cut and paste indiscriminately

without acknowledgement, and websites/emails abound with plagiarized

information. 'Twas harder to do when you had to own a printing press. :-)

This issue came up with copyright information in AGORA not too long ago. I,

myself, am still battling co-opting of my domain name AND company name on

another website.

 

So when forwarding something from another list, it is appropriate to

acknowledge the individual author of that post, as Butch correctly advises.

Sometimes a post has been forwarded so many times it is hard to discern the

original author and ownership lines get blurred. But, it is not illegal to

forward the post intact with the original author's name (in addition to the

group name if it was posted to a group), including email address, and

identified as a 'forward' . . . So long as you have the permission of the

author. Forwarding keeps the post in quotes or other marks and sets it

apart from any additional words of the forwarder. Many people who post

knowledgeable information expect that it will circulate to inform a wide

range of readers beyond where they originally post. They clearly give

permission in their posts to do so, which would supersede rules, I

believe. Probably best to remove the group list name, but you need to

clearly identify the original author by individual name/email and have

explicit permission. I would acknowledge the author even if I were

paraphrasing, and especially if it is a credible source or recognized

reference, just as Butch does with Martin Watt.

 

Much better to ask friends to join a list themselves than start muddying

ownership rules with cut and pasted snips of information and sending it out

to individuals. And, how do you know that the poster you want to pass on to

someone else is actually correct in their assessment? This list is, after

all, a 'conversation' not a legal deposition or sworn declaration of facts.

With regard to the rules of manufacturing from your kitchen, there are many

rules that apply that should only come from a legal source, i.e., the FDA

and the state/county/city you operate in (or the same such in other

countries.) Sometimes people paraphrasing from those rules & regs get it

wrong, misunderstand and post wrong information that might get you in

trouble if you take it as gospel. You will, I believe, find posts that lead

you to those official bodies in the archives so that you have it straight

from the horses mouth. This is where Google or other search engines come

in.

 

While there are many good people here who are knowledgeable; I wouldn't want

anyone to use what is posted here as anything but opinion. If information

provided here is heavily supported with clearly referenced annotation from

experts that can be verified, then you might consider it as factual . . .

Until disproved with further referenced facts, of course. Then, you would

have argument and the whole thing gets reduced to opinion once again. We

live in an age where experts with credentials can be fabricated, bought and

sold at auction to the highest bidder, so good luck wending your way through

the labyrinth of truth/fact on the web and especially in mailing lists.

 

Don't want to leave on a negative note - I've been conversing online since

about 1993, and I have taken good advice as well as given it over that

period of time. Trust, but verify . . . Always.

 

Be Well,

Marcia Elston http://www.wingedseed.com

http://aromaconnection.org

" Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot. " Hausa Saying from

Nigeria

 

 

>

>

> On Behalf Of Butch Owen

> Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:52 AM

>

> OT: Sharing Information From One

> Group With Another Group or Persons

>

> Hey Susan,

>

> I changed the Subject Line so it would more closely identify

> the subject

> being discussed. Recommend folks consider this when making

> posts. :-P

>

> I'll give my opinion on the below question .. but

> unfortunately, my opinion is based on mere logic .. which

> sometimes is subordinated to formal application of rules that

> were made without consideration of the resulting consequences

> .. and formally enforced by folks or agencies like who

> are either not wise enough or lack the desire to go beyond

> regurgitation of

> those short-sighted rules when dealing in grey areas. Its

> sorta like the

> dilemma cops are faced with on a daily basis .. at what point

> does a simple fracas where two friends are shoving each other

> become an assault with 2

> perpetrators and 2 victims? Logic tells us that the courts

> can't (and

> shouldn't) handle all transgressions even if they are (or can

> be considered to be) technically crimes.

>

>

> > On another group someone asked about manufacturing

> products in their

> > kitchen and selling them. This was talked about here in a recent

> > thread. Is it OK to share info from posts here with others? Should

> > they be directed to this group or can the info from here be

> copied to

> > answer them?

> >

>

> Anyone can be directed to this group .. the more the merrier.

> One of the many reasons this group has grown so quickly is

> because of word of mouth.

>

> Can we share posts from this group (or any other group) with

> other groups?

> I believe the answer is NO and I support that. Can we share

> information

> contained in a post to this group with folks from other

> groups? I think the answer is YES .. or it should be YES .. IF ..

>

> 1. We don't use the headers from this group .. which

> identify the Oils &

> Herbs Group .. and the writer. prohibits this and I

> support

> in that regard.

>

> 2. The information is not a direct quote. When I write in

> reply to a person on this list I might not be not writing for

> publication to the world .. if my replies were sent intact to

> the world they would not reflect the mood of the group at the

> time I wrote the reply .. nor my personal association with

> the person who asked the question I was replying to.

>

> Can one share my posts from this group (or any other group)

> with other people .. including personal friends? I believe

> the answer should be NO ..

> because it is not ethical to do this without getting my

> permission. If I do give permission I might want to edit my

> response .. or .. demand that it be posted intact and without

> any changes. To violate my desires would also be unethical.

>