Medical Systems ** Was: Nail Fungus

[Guest guest]

Howdy Liz,

 

>

> > I will say that even some of my totally socialist minded friends in

> the UK

> > are not satisfied with the waiting lists and the degree of attention

> given

> > under the free system.

>

> Oh Butch! Now I really couldn't just let that slip by could I ?

>

 

I don't have any idea cause I hadn't given it any thought. ;-) I

stand behind what I wrote above .. perhaps one of those who are from the

UK and on this list might decide to testify in public. ;-)

 

 

> In days gone past waiting lists were grim in some area's. But not now.

> I think the maximum wait is 6 weeks - less if the GP is thinking

> cancer. If you need a specialist you can specify who you want to see

> as well. Like everything in this life - you do sometimes need to be

> firm in demanding (hateful word!) what you want and when you want it.

> Or maybe I just live in a good NHS area.......

>

 

Maybe its the area .. likely it is. One Brit I know lives in the area

of London has had bad problems with the system .. lately. Like I wrote in

my original post .. " There will be some in Europe and in the USA who will

say they are satisfied with the status quo .. they are lucky. There will be

some in the USA who say they are not satisfied with the Military or the VA

system .. they have just been unlucky. Two folks wrote me off line on VA

(sorry folks .. didn't answer you yet) .. one was disgusted with the VA

Hospital in Nashville, TN .. one was bubbly over with praise for the VA

Hospitals in Martinsburg, West Virginia and in Washington, D.C.

 

 

> Over the past few years I've had direct contact with the NHS on lots

> of occasions. Mum was in and out of hospital with diverticulitis

> (refusing operations!) and had first class attention at all times. Dad

> had CHF (plus a stroke) and again also had FCA for all his ailments.

> 12 years ago I had a tendon graft - now that was a big deal. I was in

> plaster for 12 weeks and had weekly physio for 6 months, I also had

> the best surgeon in the land, his private fees would have cost me

> £3000 (12 years ago) just for the op without consultations, physio and

> after care....I got him free on the NHS.

>

 

Good it is and happy I am to hear it. :-)

 

 

> I broke my leg (ages ago) and was x-rayed, plastered and in and out of

> A & E in just 2 hours.

>

 

Again .. good for sure.

 

Then I got asthma, A & E admittance - another big deal sorted in no time.

> My most recent - 2 trigger finger's (Oh - forgot other trigger finger

> op at same time as the tendon graft!) now thats not gone so well - but

> thats nothing to do with the care, more likely me taking the stitches

> out to soon (well, they irritated me!) and using oils that healed it

> too quick so the scar has adhesion's.

>

 

Gotta listen to the docs .. unless we want to not listen. I'm inclined to

not listen just because they are docs .. I gotta believe they are right.

 

Then there is my hyper-mobile grand kids, who have consultations,

> monthly physio and orthodontics as needed. My fybro daughter and my

> dear MIL with Alzheimer's getting the latest drugs (very expensive),

> and FIL with diabetes and heart problems.

>

 

More good fortune and happy I am for you. :-)

 

 

> All the above (plus just in and out the doctors as and when and for

> whatever over the years) free at point of delivery.

>

 

I'm inclined to believe that the level of service one receives from those in

the Support Field is driven by money (fixed budget or greed) and by

Management (Administrators/Supervisors). The first variable is self

explanatory .. the second a bit more complex. A great service provider

might be encouraged or reigned in or a lousy service provider might be

tolerated or chastised .. depending on the will or the limitations of those

in management.

 

 

> You can say we paid for all this with taxes - Yep, sure have, but

> nothing like it would have cost - and it was there when we needed it,

> without taking out loans or having to raise funds to get treatment.

> Private insurance over here is out the window (unless very well paid)

> and the premiums go crazy once over 60. And they start to *exclude*

> problems as you get older (like age related problems....!) Its

> unlikely that Mum (in-law) would be covered for her Alzheimer's drugs

> by private insurance after 2 years.

>

 

Good it is .. our Medicare system is not perfect but its better than nothing

... and we do pay for it with taxes .. and even pay a portion of it after

retirement .. we also pay a part of our TriCare system unless we are retired

military and over the age of 65 .. and have paid our share of Medicare.

 

Governments make money only from taxes .. we can say that the only way some

Third World or Emerging Market countries can accumulate hard currency is

through exports or tourism .. but in fact, they can also accumulate hard

currency by investing that income in Western financial markets. But it all

starts with taxes and the lion's share of taxes is taken from the working

folks. Big Brother takes and Big Brother gives back a portion of what he

took. Its the percentage of that portion paid in that we must bounce

against what is returned.

 

A quick Net check shows that British citizens are taxed at a much higher

rate than are US citizens making the same amount of money .. and though we

have sales taxes on some items in some (not all) states .. we have no flat

Value Added Tax (VAT) .. last time I was in the UK the VAT was a flat

17.5%. Cost

of living (groceries, rent, home purchase, etc.) is much lower in the USA.

My 3,800 sq ft home and 2.5 acres of land here in Tennessee cost me roughly

1/4 of what a 1 bedroom flat would cost in any of the cities in

England. Last time I stayed in SW7 (South Kensington) I could carry a

bag containing $50 in groceries with my pinkie finger and they would last 2

days or so if I was not very hungry. ;-) Of course, salaries are much

higher in the UK than they are in Tennessee .. but its like my old Grandpa

used to say .. its not how much you make that counts .. its how much you can

save from what you make. ;-)

 

If we look at the personal Income Tax and the VAT rates in countries that

have a Socialist form of gummit we will see why Big Brother can give out

freebies. Denmark .. for example .. has a low-high rate for personal

Income Taxes of 38% - 59% .. and VAT is a flat 25%. This means that the

lowest income pays out 63 cents for every dollar they make. Finland and

France and The Netherlands and Italy and Norway and Serbia and many other

countries run in the same range. Norway, for example .. has less than 5

million people .. and their taxes are out of sight. I've long had many

great friends from there and we still communicate. One of them was a

professor who served as Second Secretary in the Norwegian Embassy in Ankara

... when he returned to Norway he had no " billet " or " slot " to fill for a bit

over one year but he continued to draw the same salary for that year.

Norway seems to be able to carry the weight of the burden .. but they have

less than 5 million folks.

 

Just this week I read in our local paper where the Henry County Medical

Center here in Paris, TN had 100% occupancy the last two weeks .. and before

salaries .. in August there were $308, 206 in profits for the hospital ..

$99,564 for the health care center and $61,096 for the emergency care

facility. But .. Charity care for August was $274,000 and bad debts ..

which had to be written off because of inability of patients to pay .. was

$719,518. That is .. $468,866 in profits against 993,518 in losses =

524,652 in losses for one month. There are roughly 35,000 folks in Henry

County .. I'm not sure if the state of Tennessee picked up any of the tab

but if they did not .. then me and my fellow citizens paid $14.99 each in

August for those who did not pay. We have no impoverished folks in Henry

County .. except for a few alcoholics and other types of professional

losers. Also .. those who did not pay took time from the medics .. time

that those of us who could pay could not get.

 

Last night there was a story on the news about all the US counties that

bordered Mexico .. California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, etc. More than

70% of the babies being delivered are from mothers who are illegal

immigrants .. and more than half of them are not married. The systems are

failing and they are demanding help from the Feds. You have similar

problems in the UK .. immigrants are coming in and living off your system ..

not working and not giving to the system .. they are professional takers.

The difference is .. your Feds are already covering them.

 

Here in Henry County there is a gummit organization dedicated to helping

minorities and single mothers succeed in the marketplace .. most of them

probably deserve this assistance .. for a time. But there are many folks

here (minorities and single mothers included) who work dawn to dusk trying

to help themselves .. and they get upset when the system goes beyond logic

in helping the others.

 

I am obviously in favor of taking care of those who can't care for

themselves .. IF .. they are victims of something other than their own

misbehavior. Matters not to me what the alleged cause of that misbehavior

is. Some Liberals will claim these folks are in a rut due to shortcomings

in our society .. but as one who was raised a po folk and who pulled himself

up by his own bootstraps .. I ain't happy about taking care of them whut

didn't reach down and grab their own bootstraps. When a 21 year old girl

drops out of school at age 15 and has no skills but has 6 kids by 6

different men .. I am not willing to voluntarily pay one cent for her care

... they must take that money from me because I will not give it willingly.

 

One also does not have to spend a lot of time on the Net searching for

complaints against the American or British medical systems .. there are

many.

 

I sort of got off the original subject but I reckon that the things I got

into are a part of the Social Medicine issue. The UK might have a

sufficient number of medical personnel NOW .. if that is the case then its

something that happened recently because in years past the criticism was

that doctors were pushing gurneys instead of sewing up wounds .. and I know

for a fact that the UK had contracts with many Turkish hospitals to treat

British citizens .. I have tipped a few beers with Brits who came to Turkey

for treatment.

 

There is a lot wrong with the NHS - but there is a dam site more right

> with it than the papers (who are very anti-government just now and

> find any cause to knock um with) will admit. My own experiences (and

> of those I speak to) differ greatly to news reports.

>

 

Pretty much the same world wide .. the media rarely focuses on positive news

... there is more interest in negative news .. it draws more viewers.

 

 

> When I first started on news groups I used to say to people " go to the

> doctor and get a diagnosis, then you know what your dealing with and

> if its something you can deal with yourself " . I found it hard to get

> my head round the fact they really could not afford to go to the

> doctor. Over here people sneeze twice and are down the surgery

> demanding a prescription. Thats where abuse of the system comes in,

> and I'm a great believer in a standard (even if small) charge to see a

> doctor. That would cut a lot of abuse and missed appointments out, and

> make big savings for the NHS.

>

 

Agreed .. if folks must put out as little as $25 or so they will be less

likely to run to the doc every time they have a nick, scratch or headache.

 

OK - I'll stop ! <grin>

>

 

Ranting is good now and then. ;-) Talking about medical systems is

actually not OT to this list .. folks need to be informed consumers and

informed about how to best take care of themselves because will come a time

that self treatment will probably be the best alternative for many problems.

 

 

Each to their own, what works in a country the size of the UK would be

> hard (if not impossible) to duplicate in a country the size of the US.

>

 

Absolutely true .. and the future of the UK and US systems of medical care

are in jeopardy even now. One can not give more than one has unless they

take from other sources.

 

And why would you want to duplicate it? Your own system works well for

> you (as a nation). It just works differently to how ours works, both

> systems have merits and both have faults.

>

 

Like I wrote above .. we should want to change both systems. There is no

reason why a healthy person should not have a job .. its cheaper to pay for

education than to pay for welfare .. cheaper to run a child care center than

to pay mothers to stay home .. cheaper to create a Job Corps like the old

CCC than it is to pay the unemployed. Many Conservative politicians in the

USA have tried to push through this concept but some Liberal organizations

and politicians objected .. said it was slave labor unless the person wanted

to work digging ditches for irrigation or whatever. How many folks who

have no skills want to work anyway? Some do but many would rather watch TV

and drink beer and go fishing .. while drawing a welfare check.

 

The CCC died in 1942 .. Congress stopped funding it. Today there are CCC

type organizations in many states but all total they employ around 25,000

folks .. a drop in the bucket. And these states have to put up with

complaints from organized labor. When I hear of a healthy person sitting

on their ass and drawing welfare .. in the same town where there are Help

Wanted signs in the windows of this or that grocery or fast food joint or

whatever .. I despise Socialism even more.

 

My wife grew up in a Socialist system (the USSR and then Russia) and

she dislikes Socialism .. her parents and brother and many of her other

relatives I have met feel the same way. She will probably become

a Conservative Capitalist because she has seen the other side of the coin.

There was no equality in the USSR and there is none now in Russia .. those

who work hard to improve their own lives live better than those who work for

the government and have free housing and free (though often shoddy) medical

treatment. Though Putin is unlikely to give more personal freedoms to

Russians .. and is certainly not going to allow democratic elections to

become the norm .. he is working to create a Capitalist society and he

understands the importance of demographics. Russia is paying folks to have

kids .. their population (like that of native born Europeans) is in serious

decline. Capitalism means more income for the government .. increased

population means the same thing. I believe that in time we will see

Capitalism replace Socialism in Russia but the path to Democracy will not be

so smooth. I also believe that in time we will see a turning of the Social

Wheel in Europe as more and more countries wake up and realize that their

way of life is in danger .. they will move from the Left to the Right .. its

already happening in some European countries. In America .. probably the

best thing that could happen to us now would be to elect Hillary Clinton as

President. Sometimes it takes a significant emotional experience to get

folks to demand change of gummit systems. ;-)

 

Giving a fish vs teaching one to fish, etc. I would not object to Social

Medicine if the management of same was sound .. and if folks had to pay a

tad or two to get treatment. But we would have to fight a big Mafia to make

this happen .. that is the FDA, AMA and the Insurance Companies. In our

life time we won't see that (I think) but someday .. unless we have more

war and pestilence .. or an epidemic of viral and bacterial critters ..

population will demand changes. Today the ratio of doctors to patients is

smaller than the ratio of lawyers to clients .. in the USA .. and some

medical organizations want to keep it that way .. see the next post I send

... on Dentists.

 

LLx

>

 

Y'all stay healthy .. then you can keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch .. http://www.AV-AT.com <http://www.av-at.com/>