Climate Change ** Bali Conference

[Guest guest]

Howdy y'all,

 

All of this information came out today (11 Dec 07) .. my post on Climate

Change was made on 9 Dec 07 ..

http://health./message/50690 .. but it

looks a bit like I copied the data that had not yet been published. ;-)

 

Also interesting to me is the information found at the following link .

three photos, courtesy of the University of Bremen, showing ice conditions

in the Arctic Ocean for 1 April, 8 August and 29 November, respectively.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/844

 

Photos like these might disturb those folks who are dyed in the wool

supporters of " Global Warming " .. to include the DisUnited Nations, Al Gore,

scientists who have received funding to support the cause, Eco-Activists and

the majority of Third World & Emerging Market nations who hope to gain

financially from a universal policy of support in combating " Global

Warming. "

 

Some folks (though not the majority) will try to discount the source without

regard to the information or photos presented .. and true it is that the

Canada Free Press is not known to be a hard core Left Wing source .. but I

am told that the University of Bremen is about as apolitical as any

university can be.

 

Folks .. we need to face two realities ..

 

(1) Whether Global Warming is a man made crisis driven by CO2 emissions or

a natural Climate Change that man did not create and can not control .. is

yet to be determined. This determination will eventually be made by honest

and professional scientists .. and we can expect that some dishonest but

otherwise professional scientists will change their tunes when their funded

grants expire.

 

(2) Some of the international players who support the idiotic DisUnited

Nations .. are petty dictators who have no concern for their own citizens ..

much less the environment. They have their own hidden agendas and few of

these agendas are honorable. There are other folks who might have honorable

agendas .. to a degree .. like some of the Eco-Activists. But considering

that many of them are rather intelligent people .. it would be logical to

suspect that many of them also could not care less about the DisUnited

Nations and might not truly believe in Global Warming .. but they see the

issue of Global Warming as an outstanding vehicle to further their causes ..

like .. the ends justify the means. On the other hand .. it is also

logical to suspect that some of those activists who are not volunteers ..

will show support for Global Warming just because it ensures continuance of

their livelihoods.

 

All said and done .. we must be skeptical of the information being put out

on both sides of the fence. We must not make decisions due to fear or panic

or high pressure sales pitches and we must walk cautiously to ensure that we

are not taken in by con artists who have a hidden agenda of any sort.

 

Understand that this debate has far reaching consequences .. the final

outcome will to a great extent, affect the future of many scientists,

politicians and activists .. folks can be forgiven for making errors but

they will not be forgotten if they deny truths that should be obvious to

them .. and it can well impact the future of the DisUnited Nations .. their

credibility is at stake now.

 

This issue is not a court room drama like, " did O.J. do it " , and it won't be

decided by slick talking high priced lawyers and a group of so-called

objective peers who were far from being either.. Some very credible

scientists have now laid down enough challenge to encourage other scientists

to take a long look at how they want to be viewed in the future .. and

encourage them to do what they are supposed to do .. research .. and seek

facts and truth. So in time we will know the truth and there will be dinner

party with Crow as the main course .. though we can expect that few of the

guests of honor will show up.

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch .. http://www.AV-AT.com <http://www.av-at.com/>

 

 

United Nation Climate Change, Bali

 

*Skeptical Scientists Urge World To 'Have the Courage to Do Nothing' At UN

Conference*

 

Canada Free Press

Tuesday, December 11, 2007

 

BALI, Indonesia - An international team of scientists skeptical of man-made

climate fears promoted by the UN and former Vice President Al Gore,

descended on Bali this week to urge the world to " have the courage to do

nothing " in response to UN demands.

 

Lord Christopher Monckton, a UK climate researcher, had a blunt message for

UN climate conference participants on Monday.

 

" Climate change is a non problem. The right answer to a non problem is to

have the courage to do nothing, " Monckton told participants.

 

" The UN conference is a complete waste of our time and your money and we

should no longer pay the slightest attention to the IPCC (Intergovernmental

Panel on Climate Change,) " Monckton added.

 

Monckton also noted that the UN has not been overly welcoming to the group

of skeptical scientists.

 

" UN organizers refused my credentials and appeared desperate that I should

not come to this conference. They have also made several attempts to

interfere with our public meetings, " Monckton explained.

 

" It is a circus here, " agreed Australian scientist Dr. David Evans. Evans

is making scientific presentations to delegates and journalists at the

conference revealing the latest peer-reviewed studies that refute the UN's

climate claims.

 

" This is the most lavish conference I have ever been to, but I am only a

scientist and I actually only go to the science conferences, " Evans said,

noting the luxury of the tropical resort. (Note: An analysis by Bloomberg

News on December 6 found: " Government officials and activists flying to

Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause

as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. " )

 

Evans, a mathematician who did carbon accounting for the Australian

government, recently converted to a skeptical scientist about man-made

global warming after reviewing the new scientific studies.

 

" We now have quite a lot of evidence that carbon emissions definitely don't

cause global warming. We have the missing [human] signature [in the

atmosphere], we have the IPCC models being wrong and we have the lack of a

temperature going up the last 5 years, " Evans said in an interview with the

Inhofe EPW Press Blog. Evans authored a November 28, 2007 paper " Carbon

Emissions Don't Cause Global Warming. "

 

Evans touted a new peer-reviewed study by a team of scientists appearing in

the December 2007 issue of the International Journal of Climatology of the

Royal Meteorological Society which found " Warming is naturally caused and

shows no human influence. "

 

" Most of the people here have jobs that are very well paid and they depend

on the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. They are not going

to be very receptive to the idea that well, actually the science has gone

off in a different direction, " Evans explained.

 

[inhofe EPW Press Blog Note: Several other recent peer-reviewed studies have

cast considerable doubt about man-made global warming fears. For most

recent sampling see: New Peer-Reviewed Study finds 'Solar changes

significantly alter climate' (11-3-07) & " New Peer-Reviewed Study Halves

the Global Average Surface Temperature Trend 1980 - 2002 " & New Study finds

Medieval Warm Period '0.3C Warmer than 20th Century'. For a more

comprehensive sampling of peer-reviewed studies earlier in 2007 see " New

Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears. "

 

*'IPCC is unsound'*

 

UN IPCC reviewer and climate researcher, Dr. Vincent Gray of New Zealand, an

expert reviewer on every single draft of the IPCC reports since its

inception going back to 1990, had a clear message to UN participants.

 

" There is no evidence that carbon dioxide increases are having any affect

whatsoever on the climate, " Gray, who shares in the Nobel Prize awarded to

the UN IPCC, explained.

 

" All the science of the IPCC is unsound. I have come to this conclusion

after a very long time. If you examine every single proposition of the

IPCC thoroughly, you find that the science somewhere fails, " Gray, who wrote

the book " The Greenhouse Delusion: A Critique of " Climate Change 2001, "

said.

 

" It fails not only from the data, but it fails in the statistics, and the

mathematics, " he added.

 

*'Dangerous time for science'

 

*Evans, who believes the UN has heavily politicized science, warned there is

going to be a " dangerous time for science " ahead.

 

" We have a split here. Official science driven by politics, money and

power, goes in one direction. Unofficial science, which is more determined

by what is actually happening with the [climate] data, has now started to

move off in a different direction " away from fears of a man-made climate

crisis, Evans explained.

 

" The two are splitting. This is always a dangerous time for science and a

dangerous time for politics. Historically science always wins these battles

but there can be a lot of causalities and a lot of time in between, " he

concluded.

 

*Carbon trading 'fraud?'*

 

New Zealander Bryan Leland of the International Climate Science Coalition

warned participants that all the UN promoted discussions of " carbon trading "

should be viewed with suspicion.

 

" I am an energy engineer and I know something about electricity trading and

I know enough about carbon trading and the inaccuracies of carbon trading to

know that carbon trading is more about fraud than it is about anything

else, " Leland said.

 

" We should probably ask why we have 10,000 people here [in Bali] in a futile

attempt to 'solve' a [climate] problem that probably does not exist, " Leland

added.

 

*'Simply not work'*

 

Owen McShane, the head of the International Climate Science Coalition, also

worried that a UN promoted global approach to economics would mean financial

ruin for many nations.

 

" I don't think this conference can actually achieve anything because it

seems to be saying that we are going to draw up one protocol for every

country in the world to follow, " McShane said.

 

" Now these countries and these economies are so diverse that trying to

presume you can put all of these feet into one shoe will simply not work, "

McShane explained.

 

" Having the same set of rules apply to everybody will blow some economies

apart totally while others will be unscathed and I wouldn't be surprised if

the ones who remain unscathed are the ones who write the rules, " he added.

 

'Nothing happening at this conference'

 

Professor Dr. William Alexander, emeritus of the University of Pretoria in

South Africa and a former member of the United Nations Scientific and

Technical Committee on Natural Disasters, warned poor nations and their

residents that the UN policies could mean more poverty and thus more death.

 

" My message is specifically for the poor people of Africa. And there is

nothing happening at this conference that can help them one little bit but

there is the potential that they could be damaged, " Alexander said.

 

" The government and people of Africa will have their attention drawn to

reducing climate change instead of reducing poverty, " Alexander added.

 

Posted 12/11 at 08:49 AM

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Folks .. we need to face two realities ..

>

> (1) Whether Global Warming is a man made crisis driven by

> CO2 emissions or a natural Climate Change that man did not

> create and can not control .. is

> yet to be determined.

> (2) Some of the international players who support the

> idiotic DisUnited Nations .. are petty dictators who have no

> concern for their own citizens ..

 

[Dave]: On this we agree. Having done so, we're still faced with the

problem of changing climate, desertification, etc. We won't solve it by

arguing whose motives are nobler. Also, I noted that the article featuring

the three photos of 2007 winter ice cited Michael Crichton's book, State Of

Fear. That is an excellent read, and a good example of how fiction can

impart more truth than statistics. It's the only novel I've ever read with

as many footnotes as many textbooks.

 

 

 

Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1181 - Release 12/11/2007

5:05 PM

[Guest guest]

Here is information about Christopher Monckton, erroneously referred to as a

climate researcher in the article Butch has attached and based his opinion

on. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1947248,00.html

 

Christopher Monckton joins Robert Ferguson and others at the Science and

Public Policy Institute (formerly the Frontiers of Freedom's Center for

Science and Public Policy), established after a $100,000 grant from Exxon

Mobil in 2002. Robert Ferguson is a Republican who has worked in politics

for 26 years http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=1310

 

Lord Monckton's two-part article is hardly credible science and he has no

degrees in atmospheric science, nor credible peer-reviewed papers on the

subject.

 

Australia's Dr. David Evans has expertise in materials science (natural

fibers) and has no published papers related to atmospheric science.

http://www.csiro.au/people/ps248.html His involvement with the CRC was

under Howard's administration and no doubt an attempt to float the carbon

counting scheme that would protect Australia's polluting coal industry and

keep Howard in power.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSYD128860 They lost and

Australia has now joined in signing the Kyoto protocol and participating in

the Bali conference.

 

The brief facts: (not going to list sources, as Rob and I are doing a

comprehensive report addressing affects on aromatic crops for

aromaconnection which will be well annotated). Carbon dioxide levels, as

measured in Antarctic ice cores, have risen and fallen in step with global

temperatures and sea level over the past 400,000 years. The record shows

that long ice ages have gripped the planet, interrupted by shorter warming

periods. The interglacials (warm periods) naturally occur every 100,000

years or so and last about 10,000 years, driven by changes in Earth's orbit

and orientation. Historically, temperatures rose first, then CO2 increased,

accelerating temperature rise. Sea levels followed in turn. What makes the

current situation unpredictable is that never before has CO2 climbed so fast

and so high during an interglacial, far ahead of temperature. Now

temperatures and sea levels are being drawn upward; how quickly they will

continue to rise is not known exactly. CO2 today is at 380 parts per

million as compared to 280 parts per million just prior to the industrial

revolution. This is a rapid increase heretofore not experienced. Carbon

dioxide molecules stay in the atmosphere as long as 200 years, so even if

emissions were eliminated today, the Earth would keep warming for centuries,

however, more slowly. If emissions were held at today's rate projected

levels would still hit 525 ppm, nearly double their pre-industrial level by

the year 2100 and the world would warm by several degrees. Business as

usual (gas guzzling cars, pro-oil industry policy and ignorance prohibiting

developing alternative, nonpolluting renewables) would probably push CO2

levels above 800 ppm, triggering temperature hikes of up to 9 degrees F

higher, overwhelming the ability of many species (plants and animals) to

adapt. Eleven of the past 12 years are the warmest years on record, going

back those 400,000 years. Jokes about the spotted owl may give you a hearty

belly laugh, but they also prevent more considered discussion about the

interdependence of all species (including human) on one another for

symbiotic influence and survival.

 

The scientific evidence is clear; surface temperatures on Earth are warming

at a pace that signals a decisive shift in the global climate, changing more

rapidly than ever before, especially in the last 30 years. Just because we

have period of ice/snow/freezing rain/record precipitation does not dispute

this fact; it is all related and only confirms the volatile activity

associated with global warming. Human activity is the main cause - burning

fossil fuels (oil, gas, coal) and credible scientific evidence is clear.

Pseudo science as propagandized by organizations like the Science and Public

Policy Institute and others have their roots and funding in maintaining the

status quo of undeterred profit margins in those fossil fuel industries. As

do the wars of this period in our history. If you believe otherwise, you

are living in Pollyanna innocence if not abject ignorance.

 

Be well,

Marcia Elston

Samara Botane/Nature Intelligence, est. 1988

http://www.wingedseed.com Online 3/95

http://www.aromaconnection.org Group Blog 2/07

" Historically, the most terrible things - war, genocide and slavery - have

resulted from obedience, not disobedience. "

Howard Zinn