Guest guest Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 OK, got a science-y question for you all. Now, I know alcohol-based hand sanitizers work by smothering or suffocating the germs, so those don't hold any threat of creating super-bugs, right? And I know that the rubbing alcohol can be toxic, but a nice one like All Terrain's with ethyl alcohol is a pretty good choice, right? Now, I know triclosan (and any other antibacterial hand sanitizer or soap like this) and the like are a no-no b/c they create super-bugs, but how exactly do they kill the germs? And now, essential oils. I know they kill germs, and I know hand sanitizers exist with essential oils. How do they kill the germs and why do they not breed the super-bugs? Sorry, feeling a bit like Howard Hughes these days with an active and social 3 year old with dozens of sick friends! ;-) Thanks! -- Debbie deb www.debrasrhapsody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Alcohol doesn't really 'smother' a bacteria, but rather denatures proteins (disrupts bonds) to make the bacteria non-viable. Since this is a very 'non-specific' mechanism, you are right in that it does not promote mutations in the bacteria that may lead to resistant strains as do antibiotics such as triclosan. I'm not sure of the specific mode of action of triclosan, but many antibiotics work by inhibiting specific enzymes that are involved in the manufacture of the bacterial cell wall.If the bacteria cannot make a cell wall its viability greatly decreases. Now, the concern with alcohol based disinfectants is two fold. One, it is not as effective as handwashing with soap and water and two, it compromises the barrier effect of the skin and so may make the skin more prone to infection. Remember, that if something is toxic to bacteria in a general way it is probably toxic to all cells in the similar way - even ours. It has been shown several times that handwashing is the best protection from passing bacteria. I think the CDC site has information about this. But, one thing to remember is how do you wash your hands? They need to be wetted, then sudsed and then rubbed for 20 seconds, rinsed and dried with a clean towel. Now CDC will say a paper towel, but I will say a clean cloth towel for environmental reasons. To be sure you are washing for the full 20 seconds it is recommended that you sing a song to pass the time. I recommend singing " Ring around the Rosey " because its lyrics deal with the plaque which is a good reminder as to why you need to wash your hands! Another bit of interest is that 70% alcohol is a better disinfectant than 90% alcohol. The stronger alcohol tends to force the bacteria into a spore state that allows them to maintain their viability. It doesn't matter what kind of alcohol it is; ethanol or isopropyl. Most essential oils kill in a non-specific way as well, however, I remember a paper a few years ago that indicated resistance to tea tree oil in bacteria - so there must be a specific pathway that is interferred with there. There is also something to be said for stimulating the immune system in a 3 year old. It may actually be good to let him get sick now so that he will stimulate his immune system and not get sick later. It is also a very good idea to teach him proper hand washing techniques while he is young and save the alcohol disinfectant for those rare times when you might be too far from water to wash. Cindy Jones Sagescript Institute, llc http://www.sagescript.com; http://sagescript.blogspot.com Microbioloty, Distillates, Botanicals > OK, got a science-y question for you all. Now, I know alcohol- based hand > sanitizers work by smothering or suffocating the germs, so those don't > hold any threat of creating super-bugs, right? And I know that the > rubbing alcohol can be toxic, but a nice one like All Terrain's with > ethyl alcohol is a pretty good choice, right? > > Now, I know triclosan (and any other antibacterial hand sanitizer or > soap like this) and the like are a no-no b/c they create super- bugs, but > how exactly do they kill the germs? > > And now, essential oils. I know they kill germs, and I know hand > sanitizers exist with essential oils. How do they kill the germs and why > do they not breed the super-bugs? > > Sorry, feeling a bit like Howard Hughes these days with an active and > social 3 year old with dozens of sick friends! ;-) > > Thanks! > > -- > Debbie > deb > www.debrasrhapsody.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Although I agree with your post, I just need to differ with one thing. The song Ring around the Rosie doesn't have anything to do with the plague. We actually just studied the plague in London and that was one of the things mentioned is that over time many people have confused the origins of that song with the plague of London. But, it's still a good song to sing while washing your hands. Best regards, Nikie Brown After The Rayne - Handmade Soaps & Bath Products and homeschooling mom!! http://www.aftertherayne.com nbrown 936-203-3188 To be sure you are washing for the full 20 seconds it is recommended that you sing a song to pass the time. I recommend singing " Ring around the Rosey " because its lyrics deal with the plaque which is a good reminder as to why you need to wash your hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Nikie, who can say for sure when it comes to stories like this. I like to think it talks about the plague. Here is the explanation given by many: Ring aroudn the Rosy - refers to the red, pimple shaped lesion on the skin A pocket full of posies - refers to the sweet smelling herbs carried to ward off the bad smells associated with the disease Ashes, Ashes - the bodies of the dead were burned to decrease the spread of disease We all fall down - refers to the high death rate associated with the plague. It definately is a very old rhyme! Cindy Jones Sagescript Institute http://www.sagescript.com; http://sagescript.blogspot.com Microbiology, Herbal Distillates, Botanicals > Although I agree with your post, I just need to differ with one thing. > The song Ring around the Rosie doesn't have anything to do with the > plague. We actually just studied the plague in London and that was one > of the things mentioned is that over time many people have confused the > origins of that song with the plague of London. But, it's still a good > song to sing while washing your hands. > > Best regards, > > Nikie Brown > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 I'm not enough of a biochemist to figure out the alcohol stuff, I'll leave that to you smarties, but here's a company that's in the Guild that takes a strong stance against alcohol-based hand sanitizers for several reasons, and use EOs instead: http://anyasgarden.blogspot.com/2007/09/mandy-aftel-teams-with-cleanwell-to.html No trichlosan, either. - perfumes, aromatics, classes, consultation Natural Perfumers Guild http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.com 1400 member Natural Perfumery group - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thanks for the science-y answer, it was helpful! The one thing I don't agree with is that getting sick is ever a good idea. I just don't think we ever have to be sick to be well. A strong immune system can be built in other ways. We are far from germ freaks around here, but because we eat so healthy and use whole food supplements and herbs and homeopathics, we rarely get sick, and that goes for the little guy too. And we do wash our hands when we are near a sink, but like to have the natural hand sanitizer for when we are out and about, touching shopping carts and door handles and going to Gymboree class, you know, all of the hot spots! ;-) Thanks again! Cindy Jones wrote: > Alcohol doesn't really 'smother' a bacteria, but rather denatures > proteins (disrupts bonds) to make the bacteria non-viable. Since > this is a very 'non-specific' mechanism, you are right in that it > does not promote mutations in the bacteria that may lead to > resistant strains as do antibiotics such as triclosan. I'm not sure > of the specific mode of action of triclosan, but many antibiotics > work by inhibiting specific enzymes that are involved in the > manufacture of the bacterial cell wall.If the bacteria cannot make a > cell wall its viability greatly decreases. > > Now, the concern with alcohol based disinfectants is two fold. One, > it is not as effective as handwashing with soap and water and two, > it compromises the barrier effect of the skin and so may make the > skin more prone to infection. Remember, that if something is toxic > to bacteria in a general way it is probably toxic to all cells in > the similar way - even ours. It has been shown several times that > handwashing is the best protection from passing bacteria. I think > the CDC site has information about this. But, one thing to remember > is how do you wash your hands? They need to be wetted, then sudsed > and then rubbed for 20 seconds, rinsed and dried with a clean towel. > Now CDC will say a paper towel, but I will say a clean cloth towel > for environmental reasons. To be sure you are washing for the full > 20 seconds it is recommended that you sing a song to pass the time. > I recommend singing " Ring around the Rosey " because its lyrics deal > with the plaque which is a good reminder as to why you need to wash > your hands! > > Another bit of interest is that 70% alcohol is a better disinfectant > than 90% alcohol. The stronger alcohol tends to force the bacteria > into a spore state that allows them to maintain their viability. It > doesn't matter what kind of alcohol it is; ethanol or isopropyl. > > Most essential oils kill in a non-specific way as well, however, I > remember a paper a few years ago that indicated resistance to tea > tree oil in bacteria - so there must be a specific pathway that is > interferred with there. > > There is also something to be said for stimulating the immune system > in a 3 year old. It may actually be good to let him get sick now so > that he will stimulate his immune system and not get sick later. It > is also a very good idea to teach him proper hand washing techniques > while he is young and save the alcohol disinfectant for those rare > times when you might be too far from water to wash. > > Cindy Jones > Sagescript Institute, llc > http://www.sagescript.com; http://sagescript.blogspot.com > Microbioloty, Distillates, Botanicals > > >> OK, got a science-y question for you all. Now, I know alcohol- >> > based hand > >> sanitizers work by smothering or suffocating the germs, so those >> > don't > >> hold any threat of creating super-bugs, right? And I know that the >> rubbing alcohol can be toxic, but a nice one like All Terrain's >> > with > >> ethyl alcohol is a pretty good choice, right? >> >> Now, I know triclosan (and any other antibacterial hand sanitizer >> > or > >> soap like this) and the like are a no-no b/c they create super- >> > bugs, but > >> how exactly do they kill the germs? >> >> And now, essential oils. I know they kill germs, and I know hand >> sanitizers exist with essential oils. How do they kill the germs >> > and why > >> do they not breed the super-bugs? >> >> Sorry, feeling a bit like Howard Hughes these days with an active >> > and > >> social 3 year old with dozens of sick friends! ;-) >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> Debbie >> deb >> www.debrasrhapsody.com >> >> > > > > > The information contained in these e-mails is not a substitute > for diagnosis and treatment by a qualified, licensed professional. > > Absolutely no forwarding or copying, in whole or in part, of any messages or postings to others outside the list without the express, written consent of every author of a message included in the forward or copy. > > To adjust your group settings (i.e. go no mail) see the following link: /join > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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