Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 In a message dated 10/22/2008 7:15:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cyndi writes: > There is no such thing as " 100% organic soap " because of the lye. > It's allowed in organic production but, of course, doesn't count > as an organic ingredient. In fact, it is next to impossible to have > " organic " soap because that has a threshhold of 95% organic (water > and salt do not count). In bar soap, the weight of the lye is about > 11% (after taking away water). What you can have is soap that is > certified as made with organic ingredients. You need 70% organic > ingredients for that. Sorry but I'd have to totally disagree..and it's ok to agree to disagree.. What if you don't use water? your assuming all do..I've never used water..water and salt do count..it's the lye that doesnt.. and salt comes in many organic forms.. it can be 100% organic because lye is used to produce the substance soap...and as we all know lye is not in the end product Lye is simply the substance to produce the organic end product which is gone so it is 100% organic....this would be like saying it's not organic soap because your spoons and bowls are not organic..as I said before this has been the topic of much debate..this is why..too much mixed information..and misunderstanding of what true organic means..it can and will be debated til the end's of the earth it's the same with organic food's as well..lol Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Organic means every thing the soap has in it has to be proven that its grown organically not anything to do with lye although lye is a comical and it is imposable to make soap without lye it will not set up anyone stating this is lying to you...organic means for instance if i have coconut oils in my soap i have to prove the coconut trees were grown organically ...this is a hard call and very expensive ..be ware lye has other names one is sodium Hydroxide but is one of the milder ones witch is what I use .. - Cyndi Norwitz Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:15 PM Re: organic soap On Oct 21, 2008, at 12:41 PM, jaavedis wrote: > Hi! Does anyone know of an organic soap maker? I just got a call > from > a friend and she wants to buy some 100% organic soap. Thanks! There is no such thing as " 100% organic soap " because of the lye. It's allowed in organic production but, of course, doesn't count as an organic ingredient. In fact, it is next to impossible to have " organic " soap because that has a threshhold of 95% organic (water and salt do not count). In bar soap, the weight of the lye is about 11% (after taking away water). What you can have is soap that is certified as made with organic ingredients. You need 70% organic ingredients for that. My soap is certified organic (made with organic ingredients) by CCOF (California Certified Organic Farmers). All my ingredients except for water and lye are organic (one exception for a vitamin in shampoo when I make it again). Cyndi Tikvah Organics http://www.tikvah.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 -- not many will do it its not cost affective the guide lines on organic is very strict --- Original Message ----- organicelixirs Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:25 AM Organic Soap In a message dated 10/22/2008 7:15:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cyndi writes: > There is no such thing as " 100% organic soap " because of the lye. > It's allowed in organic production but, of course, doesn't count > as an organic ingredient. In fact, it is next to impossible to have > " organic " soap because that has a threshhold of 95% organic (water > and salt do not count). In bar soap, the weight of the lye is about > 11% (after taking away water). What you can have is soap that is > certified as made with organic ingredients. You need 70% organic > ingredients for that. Sorry but I'd have to totally disagree..and it's ok to agree to disagree.. What if you don't use water? your assuming all do..I've never used water..water and salt do count..it's the lye that doesnt.. and salt comes in many organic forms.. it can be 100% organic because lye is used to produce the substance soap...and as we all know lye is not in the end product Lye is simply the substance to produce the organic end product which is gone so it is 100% organic....this would be like saying it's not organic soap because your spoons and bowls are not organic..as I said before this has been the topic of much debate..this is why..too much mixed information..and misunderstanding of what true organic means..it can and will be debated til the end's of the earth it's the same with organic food's as well..lol Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 On Oct 22, 2008, at 9:25 PM, organicelixirs wrote: > In a message dated 10/22/2008 7:15:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cyndi writes: > >> There is no such thing as " 100% organic soap " because of the lye. >> It's allowed in organic production but, of course, doesn't count >> as an organic ingredient. In fact, it is next to impossible to have >> " organic " soap because that has a threshhold of 95% organic (water >> and salt do not count). In bar soap, the weight of the lye is about >> 11% (after taking away water). What you can have is soap that is >> certified as made with organic ingredients. You need 70% organic >> ingredients for that. > > Sorry but I'd have to totally disagree..and it's ok to agree to > disagree.. Yes, but you're using a personal definition of " organic " and I'm using the legal definition, in the US and many other countries. > What if you don't use water? your assuming all do.. I have no idea how you can add lye to oil without putting it into a solution first. If you use milk or juice, then you can count it towards the organic percentage, assuming they're organic. But it's irrelevent. I merely state the law in the US which says that water and salt do not count in calculating the organic percentage. > I've never used > water..water and salt do count..it's the lye that doesnt.. > and salt comes in many organic forms.. Again, you're talking about perceptions and I'm stating regulations. In order to call a product " organic " in the US you need to show that 95% of the ingredients are organic agricultural ingredients. Non- agricultural ingredients can not be " organic " no matter what. First you take the total weight of the product. Then you take away the water and salt, if any, and give that weight. If it's the same as the first weight, that's fine. Next, figure out the componant weights of the individual inputs (not end products). Look at the total weight of the organic agricultural ingredients vs everything else. Make it into a percentage. Next, you have to show that all the other ingredients are allowed in organic products. Lye is allowed. Synthetic fragrances, preservatives, dyes, etc are not. > it can be 100% organic because lye is used to produce the substance > soap...and as we all know lye is not in the end product Lye is > simply the substance to produce the organic end product which is > gone so it is 100% organic Nice try. What you are describing is not legal. > ....this would be like saying it's not organic soap because your > spoons and bowls are not organic..as I said before this has been > the topic of much debate..this is why..too much mixed > information..and misunderstanding of what true organic means..it > can and will be debated til the end's of the earth it's the same > with organic food's as well..lol You can't make up your own definitions and expect them to fly when it comes to certification. Nor is it ethical to call your soap " 100% organic " when it is not. Believe me, I've tried that one. I was a member of the Personal Care Taskforce of the Organic Trade Association which was working on organic standards for personal care products. I wrote up an entire proposal for making an exception for soap and counting the lye as if it were salt, meaning that it didn't get counted when calculating the organic percentage of the product. Lost by one vote. But, even if it had passed, it would not have changed the existing USDA National Organic Program organic certification standards. Those are geared for food. Lye is allowed but you count the weight. This isn't a problem for olives, but it is a problem for soap because you use a fair amount of lye with the oil. As I said, about 11%, depending on your recipe. Now, let's say you make your own lye from organically grown trees, which you burn. Then you could count the lye as part of the organic percentage and have 100% organic soap. Not commercially available though and not environmentally sound, unless you're using ashes that occurred anyway. For more information on these topics, see my proposal: http:// www.tikvah.com/pctf/ Cyndi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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