Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Hi, I just bought 3 gallons of certified organic witch hazel hydrosol to use in two of my products. It does not contain alcohol which I am told is the best preservative to use. I tried to purchase organic grain alcohol and was told that I need a permit to handle industrial alcohol...??? This is way too much hassle for me. Anyone know of any other options? Can I use any cosmetic preservative? I am wondering if I can get away with not using a preservative in a formula of 90% rosewater and 10% witch hazel. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. Jessica Burman http://www.cocoonapothecary.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Hi Jessica, I am going to add to this b/c I have been wondering the same thing. I am making lotions and am familiar with some perservatives to use, but I am not sure of the percentage to use and how long of shelf life will I get. Will more perservatives give me a longer shelf life. As for the alchohal, I have been using it, didn't know that you couldn;t. I took a class last year on herbal medicine and you really can not make it without alchohal. Along the same lines, does anyone know what kind of restrictions or guidelines are coming up for selling body care products to end comsumerrs and retail establishments? Jen Maves On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Jessica Burman <cocoonjessicawrote: > > > Hi, > > I just bought 3 gallons of certified organic witch hazel hydrosol to > use in two of my products. It does not contain alcohol which I am told is > the best preservative to use. I tried to purchase organic grain alcohol and > was told that I need a permit to handle industrial alcohol...??? This is way > too much hassle for me. > > Anyone know of any other options? Can I use any cosmetic preservative? I am > wondering if I can get away with not using a preservative in a formula of > 90% rosewater and 10% witch hazel. > > Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. > > Jessica Burman > http://www.cocoonapothecary.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I have been using vodka (100% natural grain spirits) in very small quantities, as well as to make tinctures. It works very well, and the ethyl alcohol is identical to that which the human body produces naturally, so I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with it. , Jessica Burman <cocoonjessica wrote: > > Hi, > > I just bought 3 gallons of certified organic witch hazel hydrosol to use in two of my products. It does not contain alcohol which I am told is the best preservative to use. I tried to purchase organic grain alcohol and was told that I need a permit to handle industrial alcohol...??? This is way too much hassle for me. > > Anyone know of any other options? Can I use any cosmetic preservative? I am wondering if I can get away with not using a preservative in a formula of 90% rosewater and 10% witch hazel. > > Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. > > Jessica Burman > http://www.cocoonapothecary.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Check Tincture of Benzoin. Added at one drop per ounce of product, it is supposed to be a strong preservative. Natalie Mathewson --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Jessica Burman <cocoonjessica wrote: Jessica Burman <cocoonjessica witch hazel preservative? Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 9:01 AM Hi, I just bought 3 gallons of certified organic witch hazel hydrosol to use in two of my products. It does not contain alcohol which I am told is the best preservative to use. I tried to purchase organic grain alcohol and was told that I need a permit to handle industrial alcohol...?? ? This is way too much hassle for me. Anyone know of any other options? Can I use any cosmetic preservative? I am wondering if I can get away with not using a preservative in a formula of 90% rosewater and 10% witch hazel. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. Jessica Burman http://www.cocoonap othecary. com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'd be interested to hear more on this too. I have only 8 ounces of witch hazel hydrosol and it never occurred to me that it might go bad. Rachel in AZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 you can try cosmocil CQ or optiphen. Cindy Jones Sagescript http://www.sagescript.com Microbiology, distillates, botanical skin care http://sagescript.blogspot.com > > I just bought 3 gallons of certified organic witch hazel hydrosol to use in two of my products. It does not contain alcohol which I am told is the best preservative to use. I tried to purchase organic grain alcohol and was told that I need a permit to handle industrial alcohol...??? This is way too much hassle for me. > > Anyone know of any other options? Can I use any cosmetic preservative? I am wondering if I can get away with not using a preservative in a formula of 90% rosewater and 10% witch hazel. > > Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. > > Jessica Burman > http://www.cocoonapothecary.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Adding more preservative to a lotion will not extend the shelf life but will increase the chance of your consumer having a reaction to the preservative. Each preservative will have a recommended usage concentration; however each formula will require something different. Unfortunately, there is no way for you to know or determine this ahead of time; although lotions that have more nutrients in them will of course support microbial growth better. So the more nourishing a lotion is to your skin the more chance of contamination there is. The only way to know is to have your product tested. Alcohol is a good preservative but has to be used at a concentration of 15-20% to be effective. This is not realistic in a lotion as the texture would be affected. It may be realistic in other products though and we know that many herbal distillates such as witch hazel are preserved with alcohol - this may affect the smell though. Each state has their own laws about alcohol and some require a liquor liscence to sell - even it is is not for drinking. Cosmetics fall under the jurisdiction of FDA and there are no real 'laws' regarding their sale although there are guidelines for good manufacturing. For instance with microbial testing the guidelines are " For eye-area products, counts should not be greater than 500 colony forming units (CFU)/g; for non-eye-area products, counts should not be greater than 1000 CFU/g. " It continues to indicate that none of the units should be pathogens. Shelf life of a cosmetic is not only determined by how well preserved the product is but also by stability testing. This tests the stability of the emulsion itself. If a emulsion passes a 3 month stability test it can safely be said to be stable for at least a year. Microbiology is more difficult but generally, if a lotion passes a challenge test it should be good for at least a year which is how long a preservative is stable for. Unfortunately, many people makeing body care products are not aware of microbiology and preservatives and I fear there are many unsafe products out there because of that. It is important to think of cosmetics (especially emulsions) as you would food. Fresh, unpreserved food is great just as fresh cosmetics are, however, you would not make yourself a sandwich and then keep it on your night stand to have a bite every night for the next month or more. Neither should you do that with a lotion that is not preserved and tested. I do testing for both cosmetics and hydrosols. But you don't have to use me, use anyone just have your lotions tested if you are selling them or keeping them for more than a few days. If you want to read a scary and true story, read this: http://sagescript.blogspot.com/2009/01/why-use-preservative.html Cindy Jones Sagescript Institute, llc http://www.sagescript.com Microbiology, Herbal Distillates, Botanical Skin Care > I am going to add to this b/c I have been wondering the same thing. I am > making lotions and am familiar with some perservatives to use, but I am not > sure of the percentage to use and how long of shelf life will I get. Will > more perservatives give me a longer shelf life. > As for the alchohal, I have been using it, didn't know that you couldn;t. I > took a class last year on herbal medicine and you really can not make it > without alchohal. > Along the same lines, does anyone know what kind of restrictions or > guidelines are coming up for selling body care products to end comsumerrs > and retail establishments? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Cindy, Thank you for sharing this information. I will consider using you to test my products. No I am not willing to cause anyone harm. What is your website? Or where can I go to find out more about testing product. Thanks Jen On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Cindy Jones <cindyjones1 wrote: > > > Adding more preservative to a lotion will not extend the shelf life but > will increase the chance of your consumer having a reaction to the > preservative. Each preservative will have a recommended usage concentration; > however each formula will require something different. Unfortunately, there > is no way for you to know or determine this ahead of time; although lotions > that have more nutrients in them will of course support microbial growth > better. So the more nourishing a lotion is to your skin the more chance of > contamination there is. The only way to know is to have your product tested. > > > Alcohol is a good preservative but has to be used at a concentration of > 15-20% to be effective. This is not realistic in a lotion as the texture > would be affected. It may be realistic in other products though and we know > that many herbal distillates such as witch hazel are preserved with alcohol > - this may affect the smell though. > Each state has their own laws about alcohol and some require a liquor > liscence to sell - even it is is not for drinking. > > Cosmetics fall under the jurisdiction of FDA and there are no real 'laws' > regarding their sale although there are guidelines for good manufacturing. > For instance with microbial testing the guidelines are > > " For eye-area products, counts should not be greater than 500 colony > forming units (CFU)/g; for non-eye-area products, counts should not be > greater than 1000 CFU/g. " It continues to indicate that none of the units > should be pathogens. > > Shelf life of a cosmetic is not only determined by how well preserved the > product is but also by stability testing. This tests the stability of the > emulsion itself. If a emulsion passes a 3 month stability test it can safely > be said to be stable for at least a year. Microbiology is more difficult but > generally, if a lotion passes a challenge test it should be good for at > least a year which is how long a preservative is stable for. Unfortunately, > many people makeing body care products are not aware of microbiology and > preservatives and I fear there are many unsafe products out there because of > that. It is important to think of cosmetics (especially emulsions) as you > would food. Fresh, unpreserved food is great just as fresh cosmetics are, > however, you would not make yourself a sandwich and then keep it on your > night stand to have a bite every night for the next month or more. Neither > should you do that with a lotion that is not preserved and tested. > I do testing for both cosmetics and hydrosols. But you don't have to use > me, use anyone just have your lotions tested if you are selling them or > keeping them for more than a few days. If you want to read a scary and true > story, read this: > http://sagescript.blogspot.com/2009/01/why-use-preservative.html > > Cindy Jones > Sagescript Institute, llc > http://www.sagescript.com > Microbiology, Herbal Distillates, Botanical Skin Care > > > I am going to add to this b/c I have been wondering the same thing. I am > > making lotions and am familiar with some perservatives to use, but I am > not > > sure of the percentage to use and how long of shelf life will I get. Will > > more perservatives give me a longer shelf life. > > As for the alchohal, I have been using it, didn't know that you couldn;t. > I > > took a class last year on herbal medicine and you really can not make it > > without alchohal. > > Along the same lines, does anyone know what kind of restrictions or > > guidelines are coming up for selling body care products to end comsumerrs > > and retail establishments? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I dont know what we'd do without you! I've got some heli oil and its in jojoba and not cheap.......Cindy, it has black mold on the bottom of the bottle. I had to call a lady I added that oil to and told her to toss her lotion/butter and I would send her a fresh batch. I got that from a reputable person . I took a pipette HOPING that was a mark from a permanent marker and some black goop stuck to the pipette tip. Not a happy camper. From now on I'll just continute to make butters and use a known company's product to add or lotion 'neat'..... this has been in my fridge. I'm guessin the other oil I have needs to go as well. I cant see anything and had hoped to use it for a pain oinment but not after this. e and I'm a stickler for looking at 'dates'...I didn't see one. I missed it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Evie, typically mold will grow on top of a liquid since it needs air to grow. You sure its not just resinous 'stuff' at the bottom? Jen, I always put my website address in my sig line, but since today is ad day maybe I'll remember to post an ad! :=) Cindy Jones http://www.sagescript.com Microbiology, Distillates, Botanical Skin Care > I dont know what we'd do without you! > I've got some heli oil and its in jojoba and not cheap.......Cindy, it has black mold on the bottom of the bottle. I had to call a lady I added that oil to and told her to toss her lotion/butter and I would send her a fresh batch. > > I got that from a reputable person . I took a pipette HOPING that was a mark from a permanent marker and some black goop stuck to the pipette tip. > > Not a happy camper. From now on I'll just continute to make butters and use a known company's product to add or lotion 'neat'..... > > this has been in my fridge. I'm guessin the other oil I have needs to go as well. I cant see anything and had hoped to use it for a pain oinment but not after this. > > e > and I'm a stickler for looking at 'dates'...I didn't see one. I missed it too. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 so, distilled H20 with essential oils will grow mold??? - Cindy Jones Friday, May 29, 2009 11:57 AM Re: witch hazel preservative? Evie, typically mold will grow on top of a liquid since it needs air to grow. You sure its not just resinous 'stuff' at the bottom? Jen, I always put my website address in my sig line, but since today is ad day maybe I'll remember to post an ad! :=) Cindy Jones http://www.sagescript.com Microbiology, Distillates, Botanical Skin Care > I dont know what we'd do without you! > I've got some heli oil and its in jojoba and not cheap.......Cindy, it has black mold on the bottom of the bottle. I had to call a lady I added that oil to and told her to toss her lotion/butter and I would send her a fresh batch. > > I got that from a reputable person . I took a pipette HOPING that was a mark from a permanent marker and some black goop stuck to the pipette tip. > > Not a happy camper. From now on I'll just continute to make butters and use a known company's product to add or lotion 'neat'..... > > this has been in my fridge. I'm guessin the other oil I have needs to go as well. I cant see anything and had hoped to use it for a pain oinment but not after this. > > e > and I'm a stickler for looking at 'dates'...I didn't see one. I missed it too. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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