Determining Quality ** Was: When everything lines up.......

[Guest guest]

Howdy y'all,

 

This is addressed to the original poster (Michelle?) .. I am sorta confused

as to who that is .. and its addressed to the new folks. I see where

Rachel Markel replied but there are no clear lines separating her reply from

the original (at least not on the copy I have) but I know the original was

not from Rachel because she knows all this stuff. ;-)

 

>

>

When an EO retailer or MLM company says their oils are GC/MS tested, are

> processed the way they should be for that particular oil (steam distilled,

> pressed, etc) and the oils come from the same country (for example, all of

> the various companies lavender comes from France), would you assume they are

> all the same quality? If not, why?

>

 

First .. I would recommend you avoid MLMs .. the nature of that beast is

centralized control .. mega false advertising .. and extremely high

pricing. Profits are shared by many so the profit margin must be extremely

high.

 

Second .. it is IMPOSSIBLE for all the oils to have the same Origin .. its

like someone trying to sell Vidalia Onions from New York or Oranges from

Wisconsin. Look at the Origins of the oils on the web sites of the

legitimate dealers and you will see what I mean. If the Origin is not

listed .. its possible that seller could be as honest as they can be .. or

know how to be .. but they are either not as knowledgeable as they should be

... or they are not as conscientious as they should be because they are

purchasing from dealers who also do not list Origins.

 

For example, there was a time when Turkey produced outstanding Jasmine

Absolute .. the grower/distiller was an old friend of mine .. Namit

Mumcuoglu .. but since Namit closed out his farm in the late 1980s there has

been NO Jasmine Absolute produced commercially in Turkey .. still .. I have

seen one web site claiming to sell Turkish Jasminum sambac. Do they speak

with forked tongue or due to total ignorance?

 

 

> I have very little experience with comparing and using the same oil from

> various sources to know the difference.

>

 

It does not have to be that way. Use the News Group Archive and you can

find answers to most any question one could imagine. For many years now I

and many others have suggested that buyers compare pricing and quality by

ordering samples or the smallest size available from a number of different

sellers. Here are a few old posts I have made on Determining Quality .. I

say a FEW because under different subject headings there are probably better

than 100 such posts in the Archive.

 

http://health./message/16479

 

http://health./message/37119

 

http://health./message/37121

 

http://health./message/37938

 

http://health./message/37941

 

 

> There are so many sources for oils these days.

>

 

Yep .. but check out those who have been in business for a long time .. and

those that are well known on News Groups such as this one.

 

 

> When they all claim the same high quality and testing,

>

 

They might all claim they have high quality but they don't all claim to sell

tested oils .. and some who do won't give you a copy of the test .. and some

that will give you a copy will give you the same copy in 2009 that they gave

you in 2007 .. because .. its their generic file copy.

 

 

> I have no idea how to know that I am getting the best for my money.

>

 

See my comment above on samples and small purchases. ;-)

 

 

> I feel that I have done extensive research to see what is considered

> " the best " when it comes to testing and processing, but even when comparing

> retailers who all claim they follow these standards, there are still large

> variances in pricing.

>

 

Extremely High prices are NOT an indication of quality .. Extremely Low

prices are .. prices that are lower than the norm mean quality lower than

the norm .. Commercial Quality. There is an international norm for pricing

on ALL commodities .. Sugar, Wheat, Corn, Cement .. and Essential Oils ..

look at EO as being just another commodity.

 

Also, pricing often depends of the volume of sales of a company. John Doe

selling from his home kitchen is unlikely to have the volume of sales that

Suzy Smith, who has a storefront and employees has. Accordingly, John can

not purchase EO in the volume Suzy can .. John pays more so John must sell

for a higher price. John might have but $1,000 a week in total sales so he

must make a 35% or so profit to stay in business .. Suzy might have $10,000

a week in net sales so she can afford to take a 10% profit and stay in

business.

 

 

> I need some direction from people who have experience. I'm open to all

> feedback.

>

 

I've done my best. ;-)

 

 

> LadyMy advice is to be wary of companies that market their essential

> oils as therapeutic grade, medicinal grade, pharmaceutical grade,

> professional grade, organic and wild crafted as these terms are NOT

> regulated with regards to the Aromatherapy industry.

>

 

NOTHING is regulated by the Aromatherapy Industry .. I repeat .. NOTHING!

I agree that use of terms like Therapeutic Grade and Medicinal Grade and

Professional Grade .. whatever the Hell they are .. are bogus terms .. I've

been writing that for close to 15 years now. But on Organic or Wild grown

... those terms are absolutely necessary and if one pays attention to the

business they will know that there are some oils that are ONLY available as

Wild Grown .. there is no abundant source for many oils that are

traditionally Wild Grown. Example .. there is a French retiree who has

been trying to grow Certified Organic Origanum vulgare in Turkey .. he might

eventually succeed in his little 20 acre plot but if he does he will only be

giving himself warm fuzzies because he will not be able to produce more than

10 kilos of oil per year and that does not justify even the purchase of a

Table Top Still .. much less a commercial distillation facility. And while

he is doing his Green Thing .. the other producers are extracting thousands

of kilos of Origanum from the abundant Wild Grown aromatics.

 

 

> Medicinal grade implies a falsehood that essential oil are classified by

> grade, which they are not. Professional grade implies or could well imply

> that the products are more efficacious than competitors’ products. This is

> likely a false and misleading statement about the comparative effectiveness

> of the product.

>

 

True. And overuse of a synonym dictionary to describe products is pure

marketing hype. Its like the old Chicken of the Sea commercial with

Charlie Tuna. He ask, " Do you want Tuna with Good Taste .. or Tuna that

Tastes Good? "

 

I have seen descriptions of oils that were designed to cause the reader to

have an on line orgasm .. or at least to impress those who are easily

impressed. Sometimes they try to give the Oils a human quality .. and

though though what I am about to write might be an exaggeration its not too

far off and it gets my meaning across. Run Fast when you read something

that smacks of .. " Our oils are produced from plants that are harvested in

an Earth Friendly Manner and with Tender Loving Care by Vestal Virgins in

Long Flowing Robes who Thank the Plants for their Sacrifice while humming

Hari Krishna. " ;-) Its not like that in the real world .. matters not

if the plants are commercially grown or wild harvested .. its not that way.

 

 

> As you will probably see everything under the sun is being stated to

> sell essential oils. But there are a few things that are measurable and

> can be quantified. Ask for the GC, MSDS sheets, Spec Sheets, shelf life and

> the following information that will guide you more appropriately:

>

 

As for determining Quality or Purity .. Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS)

are as useless as tits on a boar hawg. I provide them to those who must

have them .. hospitals and such .. but they are nothing but a Generic

representation of what a particular oil should be like .. a Cover Your Butt

government requirement for transporters and fire fighters .. and a simple

minded reminder of how to render first aid. Generally the First Aid data is

like .. flush with water .. remove the person to fresh air .. seek medical

attention if ingested. During my 30 years military service I never stopped

smiling at the signs we had near the fire extinguishers .. Station Number

One. Primary Operator - PFC John Smith .. Alternate - SGT Joe Smo. It

was Cover Your Butt stuff .. White Wash .. all about ridiculous government

attempts to look like management was being proactive.

 

Gas Chromatography or Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry (GS/MS) .. I have

always provided a copy to any buyer who requested it .. and I have always

known that perhaps 5% of the few who have requested them knew how to read

them .. or knew what they should be looking for. Unless Butch Owen or

Marge Clark or Chris Ziegler or Marcia Elston or any of the other legitimate

sellers on this list are stupid .. which we aren't .. we are NOT going to

knowingly purchase Low Quality or Adulterated EO. We do not exercise

Quality Control for the buyer .. we do so for ourselves .. it is OUR MONEY

we are investing and we do not want to throw our money away.

 

A GC or GC/MS does basically two things .. it tells us if the chemical

composition (or footprint) of that oil is within that rather wide range of

normality considered to be acceptable. And for those who are experienced

... it will also tell us the true Origin of an oil .. one can not pass off a

Russian product for a Bulgarian or French Lavandula angustifolia when

dealing with buyers who are knowledgeable. It will also tell us something

about quality. All pure oils are not necessarily Quality oils. There are

many Pure .. Mediocre .. oils on the market. Example .. a GC that shows an

Origanum with a Carvacrol percentage of less than 60% does not indicate

purity but it sho'nuf tells us it is not a Quality Origanum.

 

Can a GC/MS be a phony? Of course it can be .. but I fall back on the

experience factor .. we go by more than the analysis .. and we know those

who have been our long term suppliers or producers. Can every seller or

producer be trusted? Of course not .. its like dealing with politicians ..

many will tell you what you want to hear. Sellers are more likely to

speak with forked tongue than are producers. So .. the point here is you

must place some trust in the person selling .. meaning .. those who have

been in business a long time and have a record of having far more AttaBoys

than they have AwShitz.

 

 

> Density / Specific Gravity: 0.9050 - 0.9350 g/cm3 at 25 ºC

> Optical Rotation: -5º to +10º

> Refractive Index: 1.4500 - 1.4700 at 20 ºC

>

 

The above is good info .. sometimes .. but its generally useless for

determining Quality .. and today the less costly oils generally do not have

an actual Mass Spectrometry test .. but the norm for the above is the norm

... oils should not be far outside that norm and if they are then there is

room for question. But the above is not a great determining factor for

quality. We can find such data listed in many places .. its like looking

at the normal ranges of this and that on a human blood or urine test.

 

 

> Ask for samples before you make a large purchase, create an archive of

> samples so that you have something to compare other oils to. Smell and

> taste are always key indicators of quality this comes with experience over

> time. Make sure the manufacturer discloses the latin botanical name and

> correct country of origin.

>

 

All the above is true .. with one exception. If you must MAKE YOUR seller

(rarely will it be a manufacturer .. actually .. producer) tell you the

Origin then you should not be dealing with them in the first place. Such

information is basic .. the Common Name, Botanical Name and Origin are basic

and should never be missing on a web site. I think the Production Date

should also be indicated. And the business on Shelf Life is bogus .. there

is not magical shelf life for EO or humans .. there is a normally expected

life for both and it can be extended or reduced based on proper care .. I

have written much on this so I won't get into it now unless someone wants to

challenge me on it. ;-)

 

 

> Good luck! Be well, Rachel

>

 

Agree .. and luck is what it needed by those who DO NOT do their homework

and learn what is going down in this industry. Actually, this business of

telling people how to determine quality is necessary but tiring .. long ago

made me tired. I and many others have been doing this since I got into

this rat race and I am sure it will never end. I have received inquiries

from Newbies who asked if my oils were pure or adulterated .. or if they

contained alcohol .. or if they were Therapeutic or Medicinal Grade. I

have always replied to such inquiries but sometimes my replies were not

gentle .. in all cases where they asked me why I didn't make the same claims

as some MLMs .. like Young Living .. my replies were not gentle. ;-) I

usually start my replies by asking .. " If you think there is a possibility

that I am selling garbage .. why would you bother to believe me if I said I

was not? "

 

Those of us who are professionals often get such questions from rookies.

We really don't have the time or desire to defend or try to sell ourselves

to people who obviously don't have the basic knowledge to know how to ask

the right questions .. or to understand or believe our replies. We did

not earn our good reputations by being long term LUCKY con artists and I

will repeat what I have written probably a thousand times over the years ..

in this industry One AwShitz can wipe out Ten AttaBoys.

 

If it sounds like I am being ornery today .. its probably because I feel

ornery today. ;-)

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch .. http://www.AV-AT.com <http://www.av-at.com/>