Oil selection for product

[Guest guest]

Hi, I was wondering what others thought about this. I was in the health food

store and picked up a couple of different type and brand of creams. Each had

no less than 15 different vegetable oils in them, not to mentioned the other

ingredients that made up the cream. The oils were all vegetable oils, such as

sunflower, safflower, almond, apricot kernal, grapeseed. In other words, common

vegatable oils-nothing uncommon or hard to find. And I'm wondering why would a

product need this many different vegatable oils in it? It sounds like overkill

to me to put that many oils in a product. Couldn't a few be selected for their

conditioning, moisturizing properties? I know that sometimes different

ingredients combine to work off of eachother better or create a synergy but this

many seemed a little much. I guess I ask because when I make something I

generally select a few different oils to balance out the formula rather that

just through in everything I have and think that will make it better. Susan

[Guest guest]

>SusanP ripple95

 

>Hi, I was wondering what others thought about this. I was in the health food

store and picked up a couple of different type and brand of creams. Each had no

less than 15 different >vegetable oils in them, not to mentioned the other

ingredients that made up the cream. The oils were all vegetable oils, such as

sunflower, safflower, almond, apricot kernal, >grapeseed. In other words, common

vegatable oils-nothing uncommon or hard to find. And I'm wondering why would a

product need this many different vegatable oils in it? It sounds >like overkill

to me to put that many oils in a product. Couldn't a few be selected for their

conditioning, moisturizing properties? I know that sometimes different

ingredients combine to >work off of eachother better or create a synergy but

this many seemed a little much. I guess I ask because when I make something I

generally select a few different oils to balance >out the formula rather that

just through in everything I have

and think that will make it better. Susan

 

I agree that it's overkill.  I feel that when you add so many oils to one

product, there's too little of a single oil to benefit from it.  It seems to be

a random mashing together of oils to make sure everything is covered, instead of

a careful choice of a couple oils.  When I see a product with too many

ingredients, it makes me think that the person/company making it might not know

too much about the ingredients.  That may not always be true, but that's the

first thing that comes to my head, always.

 

I feel the same about the addition of herbs and essential oils.  A few carefully

selected ones are better than a bunch tossed together.

 

Lisa

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure what the sunflower or safflower are for--I've never found

them to bring much to the table as far as creams go. They could be

using them for fillers to reduce the amount of the good oils, like the

apricot kernel, almond and grapeseed. Like you, I don't see the

point--I'd rather make the cream chock-full of the good oils even if

it does raise the cost/price, because then you'd need less to get the

effects you want, making it more cost-effective for the user. My

Aloe-Emu-MSM lotion is just that--Aloe Butter, Emu Oil and the MSM,

with a small amount of Fractionated Coconut to get the consistency I

want, with of course the thickener and emulsification plus my

menthol/EO mix But everything in the bottle has a reason, it's not

just there to fill in for something that costs too much or just to be

able to brag about X amount of oils or something. Just an example.

 

As far as synergy goes, each ingredient has to have a benefit of its

own to contribute anything to a synergy system. If it's just there as

a placeholder outside a synergy, it's unlikely to be any help within

one.

 

JMHO along with my own work on research and formulation,

Serra

 

 

 

 

 

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:24 AM, SusanP <ripple95 wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi, I was wondering what others thought about this. I was in the health food

store and picked up a couple of different type and brand of creams. Each had no

less than 15 different vegetable oils in them, not to mentioned the other

ingredients that made up the cream. The oils were all vegetable oils, such as

sunflower, safflower, almond, apricot kernal, grapeseed. In other words, common

vegatable oils-nothing uncommon or hard to find. And I'm wondering why would a

product need this many different vegatable oils in it? It sounds like overkill

to me to put that many oils in a product. Couldn't a few be selected for their

conditioning, moisturizing properties? I know that sometimes different

ingredients combine to work off of eachother better or create a synergy but this

many seemed a little much. I guess I ask because when I make something I

generally select a few different oils to balance out the formula rather that

just through in everything I have and think that will make it better. Susan

>

>

 

 

--

Getting ready to send a wholesale order for the high-grade Indian

incenses I can't duplicate or find FOs for--if you want to tag along

message me at serrathescented and I'll send a list of what I

can get.

[Guest guest]

I would agree with you on your point if you are wanting to make a very specific

lotion . Like for aches & pains, or a face lotion to reduce lines etc. But just

a general lotion for moisturizing your hands or legs it would not be warranted.

Safflower, sunflower , almond, grapeseed have wonderful properties for general

use and can keep the cost down and still have a quality lotion.

Carol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>>>>>>>>>>I'm not sure what the sunflower or safflower are for--I've never found

them to bring much to the table as far as creams go. They could be

using them for fillers to reduce the amount of the good oils, like the

apricot kernel, almond and grapeseed. Like you, I don't see the

point--I'd rather make the cream chock-full of the good oils even if

it does raise the cost/price, because then you'd need less to get the

effects you want, making it more cost-effective for the user.

 

JMHO along with my own work on research and formulation,

Serra <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I was thinking of trying to make my own lotion, any suggestions? I do not want

to use anything like germicidal etc, would like to know what I can use as a

preservative that is not harsh or harmful. Do not like formaldehyde releasers

either. What do you use for an emulsifier and thickener??

-

Serra

Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:06 PM

Re: Oil selection for product

 

 

 

I'm not sure what the sunflower or safflower are for--I've never found

them to bring much to the table as far as creams go. They could be

using them for fillers to reduce the amount of the good oils, like the

apricot kernel, almond and grapeseed. Like you, I don't see the

point--I'd rather make the cream chock-full of the good oils even if

it does raise the cost/price, because then you'd need less to get the

effects you want, making it more cost-effective for the user. My

Aloe-Emu-MSM lotion is just that--Aloe Butter, Emu Oil and the MSM,

with a small amount of Fractionated Coconut to get the consistency I

want, with of course the thickener and emulsification plus my

menthol/EO mix But everything in the bottle has a reason, it's not

just there to fill in for something that costs too much or just to be

able to brag about X amount of oils or something. Just an example.

 

As far as synergy goes, each ingredient has to have a benefit of its

own to contribute anything to a synergy system. If it's just there as

a placeholder outside a synergy, it's unlikely to be any help within

one.

 

JMHO along with my own work on research and formulation,

Serra

 

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:24 AM, SusanP <ripple95 wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi, I was wondering what others thought about this. I was in the health food

store and picked up a couple of different type and brand of creams. Each had no

less than 15 different vegetable oils in them, not to mentioned the other

ingredients that made up the cream. The oils were all vegetable oils, such as

sunflower, safflower, almond, apricot kernal, grapeseed. In other words, common

vegatable oils-nothing uncommon or hard to find. And I'm wondering why would a

product need this many different vegatable oils in it? It sounds like overkill

to me to put that many oils in a product. Couldn't a few be selected for their

conditioning, moisturizing properties? I know that sometimes different

ingredients combine to work off of eachother better or create a synergy but this

many seemed a little much. I guess I ask because when I make something I

generally select a few different oils to balance out the formula rather that

just through in everything I have and think that will make it better. Susan

>

>

 

--

Getting ready to send a wholesale order for the high-grade Indian

incenses I can't duplicate or find FOs for--if you want to tag along

message me at serrathescented and I'll send a list of what I

can get.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I understand the need for a filler oil(s). I'm sure the cost of a product could

be excessive if it were made up of only more expensive oils. It just amazed me

to see this many oils on the lable. I understand that one oil is a great

moisturizer and the other is great for sensitive, damaged skin, but wondered was

there a real need for 13 plus additional oils? Perhaps I am not experienced

enought to know but again, if I make something I usually try to decide the goal

of the end product and find the most suitable oils/ingredients for that goal,

even if it is a multipurpose product, I would think the goal could be reached

with fewer ingredients. It seems it would cost less to too, trying to balance

out the product with less ingredients. Susan

 

, Serra <serrathescented wrote:

>

> I'm not sure what the sunflower or safflower are for--I've never found

> them to bring much to the table as far as creams go. They could be

> using them for fillers to reduce the amount of the good oils, like the

> apricot kernel, almond and grapeseed. Like you, I don't see the

> point--I'd rather make the cream chock-full of the good oils even if

> it does raise the cost/price, because then you'd need less to get the

> effects you want, making it more cost-effective for the user. My

> Aloe-Emu-MSM lotion is just that--Aloe Butter, Emu Oil and the MSM,

> with a small amount of Fractionated Coconut to get the consistency I

> want, with of course the thickener and emulsification plus my

> menthol/EO mix But everything in the bottle has a reason, it's not

> just there to fill in for something that costs too much or just to be

> able to brag about X amount of oils or something. Just an example.

>

> As far as synergy goes, each ingredient has to have a benefit of its

> own to contribute anything to a synergy system. If it's just there as

> a placeholder outside a synergy, it's unlikely to be any help within

> one.

>

> JMHO along with my own work on research and formulation,

> Serra

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:24 AM, SusanP <ripple95 wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi, I was wondering what others thought about this. I was in the health food

store and picked up a couple of different type and brand of creams. Each had no

less than 15 different vegetable oils in them, not to mentioned the other

ingredients that made up the cream. The oils were all vegetable oils, such as

sunflower, safflower, almond, apricot kernal, grapeseed. In other words, common

vegatable oils-nothing uncommon or hard to find. And I'm wondering why would a

product need this many different vegatable oils in it? It sounds like overkill

to me to put that many oils in a product. Couldn't a few be selected for their

conditioning, moisturizing properties? I know that sometimes different

ingredients combine to work off of eachother better or create a synergy but this

many seemed a little much. I guess I ask because when I make something I

generally select a few different oils to balance out the formula rather that

just through in everything I have and think that will make it better. Susan

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Susan, I agree! I only started making my lotions a couple of months ago,

but already I have found that a few oils works. Why mess with a good

thing? I think it's unnecessary and overkill to have 13 or more oils in

one lotion. There are a lot of people out there making lotions for sale,

and many (in my opinion) don't have a clue. Some customers might truly

think that more is better, maybe that is why this person did that? That

is why I read and read and read and read and talk to people who have

foromulated for a long time and join lists like this wonderful one! I

also try to educate my customers as much as possible so they know what

they are buying.

 

 

 

Good luck to you J

 

Kat

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of SusanP

Sunday, February 07, 2010 10:40 AM

 

Re: Oil selection for product

 

 

 

 

 

I understand the need for a filler oil(s). I'm sure the cost of a

product could be excessive if it were made up of only more expensive

oils. It just amazed me to see this many oils on the lable. I understand

that one oil is a great moisturizer and the other is great for

sensitive, damaged skin, but wondered was there a real need for 13 plus

additional oils? Perhaps I am not experienced enought to know but again,

if I make something I usually try to decide the goal of the end product

and find the most suitable oils/ingredients for that goal, even if it is

a multipurpose product, I would think the goal could be reached with

fewer ingredients. It seems it would cost less to too, trying to balance

out the product with less ingredients. Susan

 

 

<%40> , Serra <serrathescented

wrote:

>

> I'm not sure what the sunflower or safflower are for--I've never found

> them to bring much to the table as far as creams go. They could be

> using them for fillers to reduce the amount of the good oils, like the

> apricot kernel, almond and grapeseed. Like you, I don't see the

> point--I'd rather make the cream chock-full of the good oils even if

> it does raise the cost/price, because then you'd need less to get the

> effects you want, making it more cost-effective for the user. My

> Aloe-Emu-MSM lotion is just that--Aloe Butter, Emu Oil and the MSM,

> with a small amount of Fractionated Coconut to get the consistency I

> want, with of course the thickener and emulsification plus my

> menthol/EO mix But everything in the bottle has a reason, it's not

> just there to fill in for something that costs too much or just to be

> able to brag about X amount of oils or something. Just an example.

>

> As far as synergy goes, each ingredient has to have a benefit of its

> own to contribute anything to a synergy system. If it's just there as

> a placeholder outside a synergy, it's unlikely to be any help within

> one.

>

> JMHO along with my own work on research and formulation,

> Serra

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:24 AM, SusanP <ripple95 wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi, I was wondering what others thought about this. I was in the

health food store and picked up a couple of different type and brand of

creams. Each had no less than 15 different vegetable oils in them, not

to mentioned the other ingredients that made up the cream. The oils were

all vegetable oils, such as sunflower, safflower, almond, apricot

kernal, grapeseed. In other words, common vegatable oils-nothing

uncommon or hard to find. And I'm wondering why would a product need

this many different vegatable oils in it? It sounds like overkill to me

to put that many oils in a product. Couldn't a few be selected for their

conditioning, moisturizing properties? I know that sometimes different

ingredients combine to work off of eachother better or create a synergy

but this many seemed a little much. I guess I ask because when I make

something I generally select a few different oils to balance out the

formula rather that just through in everything I have and think that

will make it better. Susan

> >

> >

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

13 oils does sound like overkill, not sure that they could have used much of

each to give any sort of skin benefits. You can make a great lotion with just a

hand full of oils and you can also mix and match your oils/butters to reach most

goals your looking to impart to your skin. You should give it a try, it is not

too hard and the satisfaction of knowing & understand what you are putting on

your skin is just wonderful.

Carol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>>>>>>>I understand the need for a filler oil(s). I'm sure the cost of a product

could be excessive if it were made up of only more expensive oils. It just

amazed me to see this many oils on the lable. I understand that one oil is a

great moisturizer and the other is great for sensitive, damaged skin, but

wondered was there a real need for 13 plus additional oils? Perhaps I am not

experienced enought to know but again, if I make something I usually try to

decide the goal of the end product and find the most suitable oils/ingredients

for that goal, even if it is a multipurpose product, I would think the goal

could be reached with fewer ingredients. It seems it would cost less to too,

trying to balance out the product with less ingredients. Susan <<<<<<<<<<<<

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

i think sunflower and safflower are both high in Vit E which may be whey they

are there. But with so many ingredients it sounds like the formulator just had a

hard time deciding! With 15 oils, there concentration has to be so low that you

wonder if they are providing benefit.

 

If you are making a lotion though, you do need to put something 'germicidal' in

there to preventa bacteria and fungus from growing. Anything that is good for

our skin is also good for bacteria and they will thrive in it. That is unless it

is a product you plan on keeping just a few days; just like food. There are many

preservatives as well as emulsifiers to choose from. You might try going to a

vendors site and just reading about all of them; theherbarie.com,

lotioncrafter.com. Also, if you are selling a lotion it should have microbiology

testing done on it so that you know whether there are bacteria/fungus in there.

If not, you are putting your customer in jeopardy.

Cindy Jones

http://www.sagescript.com

Microbiology Testing, Distillates, Botanical Skin Care

[Guest guest]

Yes on what Cindy said also. When I mentioned only oils/butter I failed to

mention the entire process of making a lotion. All lotions need to be preserved.

Like Cindy said you can find more information at the websites she listed.

Carol

 

 

 

 

 

 

>>>>>>If you are making a lotion though, you do need to put something

'germicidal' in there to preventa bacteria and fungus from growing. Anything

that is good for our skin is also good for bacteria and they will thrive in it.

That is unless it is a product you plan on keeping just a few days; just like

food. There are many preservatives as well as emulsifiers to choose from. You

might try going to a vendors site and just reading about all of them;

theherbarie.com, lotioncrafter.com. Also, if you are selling a lotion it should

have microbiology testing done on it so that you know whether there are

bacteria/fungus in there. If not, you are putting your customer in jeopardy.

Cindy Jones

http://www.sagescript.com

Microbiology Testing, Distillates, Botanical Skin Care <<<<<<<<<

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I neglected to mention both the natural Vitamin E and assumed anyone

making lotion would put a preservative in and so neglected to mention

that as well. My lotions have all challenge tested clean both after

manufacture and after a year or more (I even sent a 3 year old bottle

once, just to see if the preservative held--I doubted the other

ingredients did but was curious). It passed.

 

So rest assured just because I didn't list my entire formula, it

doesn't mean I don't use it--simply goes back to the point, that

everything in the bottle has a use and I feel should have one. I was

concentrating more on the basics and did miss those items, sorry about

that.

 

Serra

 

 

 

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:40 AM, cindyjones1 <cindyjones1 wrote:

>

>

>

> i think sunflower and safflower are both high in Vit E which may be whey they

are there. But with so many ingredients it sounds like the formulator just had a

hard time deciding! With 15 oils, there concentration has to be so low that you

wonder if they are providing benefit.

>

> If you are making a lotion though, you do need to put something 'germicidal'

in there to preventa bacteria and fungus from growing. Anything that is good for

our skin is also good for bacteria and they will thrive in it. That is unless it

is a product you plan on keeping just a few days; just like food. There are many

preservatives as well as emulsifiers to choose from. You might try going to a

vendors site and just reading about all of them; theherbarie.com,

lotioncrafter.com. Also, if you are selling a lotion it should have microbiology

testing done on it so that you know whether there are bacteria/fungus in there.

If not, you are putting your customer in jeopardy.

> Cindy Jones

> http://www.sagescript.com

> Microbiology Testing, Distillates, Botanical Skin Care

>

[Guest guest]

Putting too many non-essential oils in a product can also reduce sales. I am

allergic to any " nut " oils (sweet almond, coconut, etc). Even though there may

be just a drop in the entire bottle, if I see it on the ingredients, I pass on

the product. That is one of the reasons I started looking into making my own in

the first place.

 

Cynthia