OT: Health Care Bill ** You Can't Get Blood Out of a Turnip

[Guest guest]

Howdy Victorianne,

 

Victorianne Cain <vickycain wrote:

 

> i agree with you, totally. Also, in reading the bill, i found nothing

> in there that requires that we buy insurance from for-profit companies. If

> we can't afford it, we can't afford it. Period.

>

 

According to the bill .. when the requirement comes due ALL folks (except

those in Congress) will be required to purchase Health Care Insurance ..

those that can prove they can't afford it will get assistance .. probably

some folks will even qualify for free coverage .. but then they can count on

a lower quality coverage if that is the case.

 

 

> You can't get blood out of a turnip, as they say.

>

 

A good point .. and applicable later.

 

 

> That is where the government policy would come in.

>

 

It will not be free. People will pay for that policy .. or .. they will

pay a fine if they choose to not have a Health Care policy.

 

 

> And i look forward to the day when, no matter what policy we have, no one

> comes into our hospital room and says " Sorry, you need to leave, your

> insurance company won't pay for anymore days, tests, whatever. "

>

 

I was not aware that this was happening now. Maybe it is .. but I was not

aware of it. If it is .. it might get worse because if folks have been

reading the news they know that we are going to have one heckuva big doctor

shortage .. real soon. My opinion is that if the Congress is not stupid ..

they will fix this problem by paying full cost for students wanting to

become General Practitioners .. and then making them work in that field ..

or .. pay back all the money with interest and penalties.

 

 

> The Medicare options, as overhauled a few years ago, are also a curse on

> the American people. Medicaid paid for prescriptions. It still does.

>

 

The American people pay for Medicare and Medicaid .. the American people pay

for reduced cost prescriptions. The government does not pay anything that

it does not take from us first.

 

 

> But if you have any medicare at all anymore, medicaid doesn't cover your

> presciptions.

>

 

That seems fair. If one qualifies for Medicaid then they are in a different

category.

 

 

> You need that Medicare part D.

>

 

Correct.

 

 

> Which means even if you get the cheapest one possible, you pay at least $3

> per name medication, and a dollar for generics. Which doesn't sound like a

> lot,

>

 

That is not a lot of money regardless of one's situation.

 

 

> until you realize most people old enough or sick enough to be on Medicare

>

 

I am on Medicare and not sick .. old .. but not sick. I take but one

medication .. for high Cholesterol .. $3 per month. We go on Medicare when

we reach age 65 .. health condition is not an issue.

 

 

> take an average o 8--12 meds per month. That is an addition of about $30

> per month onto a budget where people can't even afford food.

>

 

Then they will obviously qualify for Medicaid and food stamps .. if .. they

are destitute and can't afford food.

 

 

> and SSI has been cut in Calif. about $100 per month over the last year.

> Its insane.

>

 

Remember .. you can't get blood out of a turnip.

 

 

> So now most of us are going without meds we really need (at least until

> they get old enough so that there can be generic forms)

>

 

What does age have to do with getting the doctor to prescribe generic vs

brand name?

 

 

> or taking them only every 3 days, cutting doses in half, etc.

>

 

Not smart. If someone REALLY needs meds (and many people who take them

don't .. they have just been led to believe they do) then they can't do well

by allowing the level of medication in their blood to get out of whack.

 

 

> They can tell me they're trying to kill the poor, but there is no way they

> can say they're trying to save money.

>

 

Remember .. you can't get blood out of a turnip.

 

 

> Because all of these people (including me) will eventually have to end up

> in the hospital to regulate their conditions, (then they DO get their meds

> there),

>

 

Right .. and nobody is going to come to the room and say you have to leave

now .. at least by law they are not going to.

 

 

> and that ends up costing a lot more than the meds they refused to cover.

>

 

True .. so does lack of prevention .. unhealthy life styles. Americans are

#1 in that regard.

 

 

> Just like they stopped covering dental care for adults. Stupid!!

>

 

California gave free dental care for adults? That is surprising.

 

When I joined the Army in 1960 I was promised free medical and dental care

for me and mine till death. After a few years Congress cut both out for

family members .. they went on Champus for Health Care .. families paid the

first $250 a year and 20% of any medical bills .. the gummit paid 80%.

They got NO dental care.

 

My active duty status allowed me to continue to receive free medical and

dental .. until the day I retired. That day .. I too went on Champus ..

same schedule my family was on. And I too got NO dental care. I got no

eye care. This continued until I hit 65.

 

When I hit 65 years old .. I was no longer eligible for the old Champus

system so I went on Medicare .. still NO dental care. No eye care.

Because I had spent 30 years in the Army my wife and son now have a

Health insurance policy called Tricare (a new name for Champus) .. but we

must pay for it.

 

I have a Medicare Supplement Health Care policy called Tricare For Life

... it picks up most expenses not covered by Medicare. Because I am retired

military I pay nothing for it but it does NOT cover all things. In fact,

there are many things it does not cover. No dental .. no eye .. no

chiropractors .. and many other things I must pay out of pocket. Down in

my gut I believe that we (me and all Veterans) were treated badly .. they

violated our contract .. legal it was but not ethical. I spent two years

in the 'Nam and a lot of time in Somalia .. lots of us did .. but it

happened and we have no choice but to live with it. We did learn to not

trust Congress . . they can and do change their minds from time to time and

take back benefits when they think they have better things to spend money on

... or maybe not better things but things they want to spend it on.

 

 

> Don't they realize that gum disease can cause heart problems? So they'd

> rather pay $100,000 for a double by-pass than $35 a year for cleaning.

>

 

That is a tad extreme .. but if it has merit then be prepared to be further

disappointed when in time there will be boards (probably administrators

rather than doctors) deciding whether a person is a good risk for the

expense that would be necessary to keep them healthy. Its called rationed

health care and there is absolutely no way it can be avoided forever because

... you can't get blood out of a turnip. When there is no money .. states

must cut services .. the federals government can print money .. can borrow

money .. can incur deficits and reevaluate the currency .. lots of things

they can do. But they states can only pay for what they can pay for. And

states get their money from the same source the federals get theirs .. from

the citizens.

 

 

> All that was Schwartzenegger's idea.

>

 

California was once one of the richest states in America .. and one of the

most liberal. Their social services were as close to pure Socialism as one

can get inside the U.S.A. When they went broke they asked for a loan from

the federal government .. they were turned down. There is now a mass

exodus from California.

 

And California is in the top 10 states for heavily taxing their people.

The top ten states for state and local taxes are ... New Jersey residents

pay 11.8%, topping the charts. New Yorkers are close behind, paying 11.7%,

and Connecticut is third at 11.1%. The top 10 are rounded out by Maryland

(10.8%), Hawaii (10.6%), California (10.5%), Ohio (10.4%). Vermont (10.3%),

Wisconsin (10.2%) and Rhode Island (10.2%).

 

For some reason .. Hawaii has been able to provide outstanding health care

to its residents .. almost a Universal Plan. California lost revenue when

the economic crisis hit .. folks lose jobs and they no longer pay taxes ..

they then draw unemployment. A lost job is a loss of revenue to the

government and an additional loss to the government when they pay

unemployment. New York and New Jersey are also going broke .. and it has

nothing to do with how good or bad the governors are .. its all about the

state legislatures .. how much were they willing to give the people so they

could look good and keep their jobs. We can't get blood out of a turnip ..

and states can not pay for things they might have previously paid for when

their revenue decreases. The new Health Care Bill will further increase

the State's costs for Medicaid .. this is what has the Governors up in Arms

... not just Republican Governors .. all of them. A very large monkey will

be been placed on their backs and they will have to figure out how to

balance their books. Considering that the forecast for improved employment

is not so good right now .. that means either higher taxes or a decrease in

services .. or both.

 

What has happened to California will certainly happen to the United States

of America in time .. if . . they do not increase taxes and cut spending.

The government has no problem increasing taxes .. but seriously cutting

spending is something that has not been done since Ronald Reagan was

president .. Bill Clinton did not do all that bad .. but he did not cut

spending on the scale Reagan did.

 

This discussion began because folks wanted to express their opinions about

the new HC Bill. I think few folks on the list would say they have been

real happy with how government after government has functioned during their

life time. Governments are like cancers .. they grow and grow unless

action is taken to prevent this rapid growth. More government is not

better. Often governments will try to distract us by blaming the civilian

sector for their problems .. especially the dreaded corporations. Again, I

will say that Corporate taxes in the U.S.A. are the second highest in the

world .. and corporate top management types are amongst those paid the

highest salaries in the world. But there is not all that much harm

corporations can do to the citizens .. and they do provide employment. One

of the reasons for high unemployment in the U.S.A. is many corporations have

escaped our shores .. gone to countries where there are lower taxes and

fewer government regulations.

 

America does not have much of a manufacturing base anymore .. its in China

and India and Mexico and where ever. Governments are a different critter

from corporations .. they can give us nothing that they don't take from us.

They do this on a daily basis. Every time a single dollar bill passes from

one hand to another it is taxed. They take what they want and give back

what they want .. and spend the rest as they see fit. But there is a limit

to what they can do for us .. or to us .. because you can't get blood out of

a turnip.

 

It is my hope that those who have Hope that this new HC Bill is going to

make all things right .. are correct .. and things will be better in time.

I personally don't think that will be the case .. nor do I think those

portions of the plan that are due to kick in over the next few years .. up

to and including through 2014 .. will ever be executed as written now.

There will be Health Care Reform .. but I believe it will not be what we see

in the current bill. And .. I hope that we can get our budget deficit under

control because if we don't .. and we lose our AAA rating .. then the

interest we pay on the current national debt .. not even including that we

are about to incur .. will be such that we might see NO Health Care Reform

... because Congress does change its mind from time to time .. and we can not

get blood out of a turnip.

 

Finally .. for those who might still want to blame corporations for our ills

... I will agree that they are certainly not concerned about the American

people .. at least not more than they have to be to stay in business.

That is why I opposed the Corporate Bailouts .. but I suspect that some who

still demonize the corporations might think the administration did a good

thing when they did that.

 

Good luck and good health to us all .. and may we recover from the deep doo

doo situation we now find ourselves in.

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch