IBS and how not to make a killing with Chinese patent medicines!

July 30, 2006

Dear Alon,

I agree that the conclusion you need can only be drawn from a larger sample.

BUT, won't it be a crap shoot anyway? If you happen to luck out and it shows

that the formula's results are significantly better than the control group,

does that support the benefits of Chinese medicine? I don't think so. All it

shows is that the combination of Chinese herbs in the formula work

allopathically to treat a particular condition such as IBS. That is classic

Naturopathy with Chinese herbs, not . Great idea for your

typical health food store consumer who is interested in self-treating

themselves. But the main issue remains: they may resolve their symptoms, but

will they be in balance and will their self-administration cause yet deeper

imbalances? The worst result being that they will end up saying, " I tried

Chinese medicine, and it worked for a short time, but ultimately didn't help

me. "

I want to conclude with an anecdote that occurred 7 or so years ago. I have

had the pleasure of knowing our esteemed colleague, for about 20

years. Before I began Oriental Med School, I had a great idea. I had

purchased the two prominent books on Chinese patents, by Naeser and Fratkin,

some years before, and thought of a great way to make money: Take 30 or so main

patent medicines which were purported to be vegan, arrange Rabbinic supervision

to observe the preparation and processing in China, to make sure that no animal

products were involved, and import and repackage them with kosher supervision.

Buying them in bulk, I figured I could purchase them for under $1.00 each, and

offering ancient , benign healing formulas for such hard to symptoms as

headache, sore throat, anxiety, fatigue, and sinusitis, just to mention a few, I

could make a fortune. I ran it by Z'ev, and he said, " NO, DON'T EVEN THINK OF

DOING IT! " He went on the explain that

first of all, patents are real medicines, and someone could get hurt if their

took them not as indicated, despite the fact that they appear benign, and I

could be exposed to a nasty lawsuit, second, they don't treat conditions but

patterns (at the time, I didn't know what he meant), and often just would not

work, even making someone feel sicker and creating new problems not previously

there, and third of all, safe production of patents in China can be notoriously

under-regulated, with some containing high levels of heavy metals and even

prescriptiojn drugs. Again law-suit material. I believed him, and followed the

age old proverbial advice, : " Go and learn! "

I'm glad I did.

Yehuda

<alonmarcus wrote:

Yehuda i should actually said a disease name not syndrome. The

question becomes a treatment of chronic diarrhea s/s. Does a balanced formula

such as that one work or not? the first study said it did, this study with

larger numbers said it did not. That is why is said numbers really make a diff

in making conclusions

Oakland, CA 94609

-

yehuda frischman

Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:35 PM

Re: IBS

Right, but what is the etiology of the diarrhea? It there damp-heat or

cold-dampness? which is more prevelant, the dampness or the heat/cold? Is there

food accumulation? Is there spleen vacuity? Are there parasites? Is it caused by

underlying liver qi stagnation or blood stasis? Is there spleen yang vacuity? A

syndrome? OK, a differential diagnosis? I don't think so. One formula treats

all? Go for it, but don't expect to be successful!

Yehuda

<alonmarcus wrote:

Yehuda

you can just call it diarrhea and then it is a CM syndrome.

Oakland, CA 94609

-

Cara Frank

Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:48 AM

Re: IBS

I agree with you yehuda.

but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced:

and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too

warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both

address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the

formula legs.

Just my 2 cents,

Cara

--

Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

President China Herb Company

Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

office: 215- 438-2977

fax: 215-849-3338

Www.chinaherbco.com

Www.carafrank.com

Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT)

Re: IBS

I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed

standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this:

When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but

rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without

modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly,

because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give

an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with

cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other

way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified

to verify that it treats a western syndrome?

Respectfully,

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM

Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> >

wrote:

<%40> , " "

wrote:

>

> Does anyone know the formula?

It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are

grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to

have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily

constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea.

Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15

Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15

Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15

Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12

Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9

Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9

Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9

Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9

Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9

Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30

Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6

* indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article

(Bensoussan's formula)

Eric

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July 30, 2006

Yehuda

Obviously its not diff dx CM, but it does attempts to reproduce one positive

study. That is all i am saying. Is it cap shoot? somewhat, balanced formulas

like this one are used within CM all the time.

Oakland, CA 94609

-

yehuda frischman

Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:41 PM

IBS and how not to make a killing with Chinese patent

medicines!

Dear Alon,

I agree that the conclusion you need can only be drawn from a larger sample.

BUT, won't it be a crap shoot anyway? If you happen to luck out and it shows

that the formula's results are significantly better than the control group, does

that support the benefits of Chinese medicine? I don't think so. All it shows is

that the combination of Chinese herbs in the formula work allopathically to

treat a particular condition such as IBS. That is classic Naturopathy with

Chinese herbs, not . Great idea for your typical health food

store consumer who is interested in self-treating themselves. But the main issue

remains: they may resolve their symptoms, but will they be in balance and will

their self-administration cause yet deeper imbalances? The worst result being

that they will end up saying, " I tried Chinese medicine, and it worked for a

short time, but ultimately didn't help me. "

I want to conclude with an anecdote that occurred 7 or so years ago. I have

had the pleasure of knowing our esteemed colleague, for about 20

years. Before I began Oriental Med School, I had a great idea. I had purchased

the two prominent books on Chinese patents, by Naeser and Fratkin, some years

before, and thought of a great way to make money: Take 30 or so main patent

medicines which were purported to be vegan, arrange Rabbinic supervision to

observe the preparation and processing in China, to make sure that no animal