3b. is ting li zi ever used for invisible phlegm

[Guest guest]

yehuda, I still believe your wife has a strong

constitution. Her qi is still remarkably strong,

unfortunetly so is the pathogen. I think you made a nice

discovery addressing both types of phelgm. I aslo believe Da

Huang is a key herb. What would happen if you doubled or

tripled the amount but cooked da huang twice. For example

just bring da huang to a boil, boil for a few minutes. turn

off heat and allow to sit overnight. In the a.m. bring again

to a boil and then add to the other herbs to cook. The heat

aspect should be addressed as presented and not be

anticipated. Making a herbal tincture out of vinegar (after

cooking the da huang, as cited) could be benefical and

you'll be able o take as needed as well as in smaller doses

throughout the whole day.

 

Ed Kasper LAc. Licensed Acupuncturist & Herbalist

www.HappyHerbalist.com Santa Cruz, CA.

 

 

3b. Re: is ting li zi ever used for " invisible phlegm "

Posted by: " yehuda frischman "

 

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:12 pm (PDT)

 

Dear Christine and all,

 

A quick update and a bit more clarification. Ironically,

though this is a long term problem, nonetheless there is

also clearly excess fire as well as well. both her tongue

and pulses reflect that. In regard to your observation that

this is substantial rather than invisible phlegm, perhaps I

need to clarify further: I am not denying that she has

visible phlegm, what I am contending is the two types of

phlegm present simultaneously--that the invisible phlegm

mists the heart channel and blocks the orifices to the head,

and the visible phlegm interferes with her swallowing, and

accumulates and blocks her throat. We actually tried this

week for a short term of 4 days (2 bags of three doses) as

part of her formula of raw herbs including at first 15g the

first bag, and 9g the second bag of ting li zi. The results

have been remarkable: Her sleep has been the best it's been

in years, (she's not woken up coughing or clearing her

throat!) swallowing has been significantly

easier, thinking has been clearer and drooling has stopped.

I think at this point, I will only use the ting li zi when I

am aware of a significant increase in phlegm, or when

seizures would be expected according to her cycle, but

emperically I am excited that I have another tool to use in

our arsenal. BTW, just another indication that her

situation is clearly a mixture of excess and deficiency,

consider that for the past 2 years, she has been taking a 3x

daily dose of raw Da Huang varying from 1/2 up to 3 grams

each time, depending upon her symptoms. It has

significantly reduced the damp heat and excess heat

accumulation, and has regulated her elimination. (For those

of you who are alarmed and contend that it is unsafe and has

developed a dependency on Da Huang as a laxative, consider

that the dose she takes now is generally much less than

previously, and rather than needing to increase for

effectiveness, we are finding that it is regulating and

balancing her.

 

Respectfully,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER

www.traditionaljewishmedicine.com

 

Christine Chang <panasiaintl wrote:

Hi Yehuda,

 

1. wei ling xian: (wood ) disperse, move qi, expel wind;

damp, phlegm, jaundice, phlegm water, all cold-pain, chronic

stagnations; (fried with sha ren or vinegar can treated fish

bone in the throat); be caution with weak constitution

patients. <ben cao bei yao>

 

Ting li zi (fire) pungent, bitter, big cold, guide qi

downward, move UB water and LU edema with asthma, but it is

easily from draining LU to injury ST, so better taking with

da zao; long term taking can cause qi deficient. <ben cao

bei yao>

 

Your wife has a long-term condition; you can hear the sound

coming from her throat, so that is excess cold phlegm, not

¡§invisible¡¨ at all. I will choose wei

ling xian & clear phlegm herbs but ting li zi. ting li zi

too cold and harsh, and quick action...

 

My two cents

Christine

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Ed,

 

Good to hear from you, and I tend to agree. Let's talk a bit about your ideas

with Da Huang. Please explain the advantage of taking a larger dose, albeit

treated of DH, as opposed to the raw powder she is now taking?

 

Regards from So Cal,

 

Yehuda

 

Ed Kasper LAc <eddy wrote:

yehuda, I still believe your wife has a strong

constitution. Her qi is still remarkably strong,

unfortunetly so is the pathogen. I think you made a nice

discovery addressing both types of phelgm. I aslo believe Da

Huang is a key herb. What would happen if you doubled or

tripled the amount but cooked da huang twice. For example

just bring da huang to a boil, boil for a few minutes. turn

off heat and allow to sit overnight. In the a.m. bring again

to a boil and then add to the other herbs to cook. The heat

aspect should be addressed as presented and not be

anticipated. Making a herbal tincture out of vinegar (after

cooking the da huang, as cited) could be benefical and

you'll be able o take as needed as well as in smaller doses

throughout the whole day.

 

Ed Kasper LAc. Licensed Acupuncturist & Herbalist

www.HappyHerbalist.com Santa Cruz, CA.

 

 

3b. Re: is ting li zi ever used for " invisible phlegm "

Posted by: " yehuda frischman "

 

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:12 pm (PDT)

 

Dear Christine and all,

 

A quick update and a bit more clarification. Ironically,

though this is a long term problem, nonetheless there is

also clearly excess fire as well as well. both her tongue

and pulses reflect that. In regard to your observation that

this is substantial rather than invisible phlegm, perhaps I

need to clarify further: I am not denying that she has

visible phlegm, what I am contending is the two types of

phlegm present simultaneously--that the invisible phlegm

mists the heart channel and blocks the orifices to the head,

and the visible phlegm interferes with her swallowing, and

accumulates and blocks her throat. We actually tried this

week for a short term of 4 days (2 bags of three doses) as

part of her formula of raw herbs including at first 15g the

first bag, and 9g the second bag of ting li zi. The results

have been remarkable: Her sleep has been the best it's been

in years, (she's not woken up coughing or clearing her

throat!) swallowing has been significantly

easier, thinking has been clearer and drooling has stopped.

I think at this point, I will only use the ting li zi when I

am aware of a significant increase in phlegm, or when

seizures would be expected according to her cycle, but

emperically I am excited that I have another tool to use in

our arsenal. BTW, just another indication that her

situation is clearly a mixture of excess and deficiency,

consider that for the past 2 years, she has been taking a 3x

daily dose of raw Da Huang varying from 1/2 up to 3 grams

each time, depending upon her symptoms. It has

significantly reduced the damp heat and excess heat

accumulation, and has regulated her elimination. (For those

of you who are alarmed and contend that it is unsafe and has

developed a dependency on Da Huang as a laxative, consider

that the dose she takes now is generally much less than

previously, and rather than needing to increase for

effectiveness, we are finding that it is regulating and

balancing her.

 

Respectfully,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER

www.traditionaljewishmedicine.com

 

Christine Chang <panasiaintl wrote:

Hi Yehuda,

 

1. wei ling xian: (wood ) disperse, move qi, expel wind;

damp, phlegm, jaundice, phlegm water, all cold-pain, chronic

stagnations; (fried with sha ren or vinegar can treated fish

bone in the throat); be caution with weak constitution

patients. <ben cao bei yao>

 

Ting li zi (fire) pungent, bitter, big cold, guide qi

downward, move UB water and LU edema with asthma, but it is

easily from draining LU to injury ST, so better taking with

da zao; long term taking can cause qi deficient. <ben cao

bei yao>

 

Your wife has a long-term condition; you can hear the sound

coming from her throat, so that is excess cold phlegm, not

¡§invisible¡¨ at all. I will choose wei

ling xian & clear phlegm herbs but ting li zi. ting li zi

too cold and harsh, and quick action...

 

My two cents

Christine

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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